308 réponses à ce sujet

[IsleySilverlord]

Amanthor wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Deschi wrote...

Intersting that you throw NGE in the ring... as i didnt like the ME3 ending I have to say i loved both arty and strange ending versions and didnt rage at all. See, Evangelion (the series) became during its running time more and more a tale from a sci-fi-mech-cartoon to psychological drama... it focused on an outer conflict and during its running time it was more and more about innerconflicts. So the artistic and somhow abstract endings were quite fitting... also as it was a lot about Anno's own problems and very autobiographically...

ME3 maybe tried to go this way in its ending but just didnt succeed for several reasons. Such a deep ending needs more signs before that to be established... also the lack of choice and your former decissions of course just hurt the passionate player.

People complained about the change in direction of NGE. Early in the series it was a simple mecha anime with cute girls that had a violent edge then went on a spiral of artistic exploration that people hated accumilating with the ending. People wanted the series to be a simple mecha anime with cute girls that was the issue.

Same thing with ME3 the tone changed at the end and people were angry because they wanted their simple ending that they expected.

The fanboy fallout of ME3 is very similar to NGE for the same reasons.

I suppose a westerner like me and you could probably pass up NGE's turn to precieved weirdness as normal for anime since the western opinion of anime is that it's weird anyay. You expected it with NGE so it did not bother you.

You expected a simple hero ending for ME3 where eveyone would live happily ever after and you'd get to see the galaxy rebuilding and Shepard a hero.

You got something far more complicated that you didn't understand or did not want to and now you feel cheated like everyone else because you didn';t get what you want from the final chapter. Much like the fanboys of NGE back in the 90's.

Yes, because characters going against their established personalities, plot holes the size of the galaxy, and nonsensical children spewing crap we're supposed to buy definately is something that needs to be understood, and is "complicated".

Give up. He's just trolling. If endings DLC comes out, he'll get it and then complain about how Art died the moment they did what we wanted.

[Dargus007]

No victory here.

Just vague, non-committal, PR speak.

Only slightly better than: "We are listening."

Bioware, I'm listening too, but I still haven't heard anything.

[Deschi]

Moondoggie wrote...

People complained about the change in direction of NGE. Early in the series it was a simple mecha anime with cute girls that had a violent edge then went on a spiral of artistic exploration that people hated accumilating with the ending. People wanted the series to be a simple mecha anime with cute girls that was the issue.

Same thing with ME3 the tone changed at the end and people were angry because they wanted their simple ending that they expected.

The fanboy fallout of ME3 is very similar to NGE for the same reasons.

I suppose a westerner like me and you could probably pass up NGE's turn to precieved weirdness as normal for anime since the western opinion of anime is that it's weird anyay. You expected it with NGE so it did not bother you.

You expected a simple hero ending for ME3 where eveyone would live happily ever after and you'd get to see the galaxy rebuilding and Shepard a hero.

You got something far more complicated that you didn't understand or did not want to and now you feel cheated like everyone else because you didn';t get what you want from the final chapter. Much like the fanboys of NGE back in the 90's.

Yeah I see your point and somehow the parallels... but it's really that way that I loved NGE to go that arthouse, dark psychological, experimental way... and they did it step by step.

Also ME3 was deep from the beginning... but in a whole other way: it was not that much about psychological problems and philsophical stuff (thiose things were dicussed more on the surface) but political problems and social problems (even as an allegory for our real world) were there all the time. So for me ME3 was deep but just more "grounded", even in the third part... so the ending might be smart but it hits you so suddenly and so not well prepared that it just doesnt work for me

[CommanderConnor]

There have been a lot of really positive aspects of the movement, but disregarding every announcement they make by chalking them up to pure PR bs is the kind of negative feedback that won't get us anywhere. It has been made clear that they are listening to genuine crticism of the game/ending and not PR scrutiny. 

That being said here are the positive things I have taken from the announcement.

"We’re working hard to maintain the right
balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while
addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our
existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full
games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe
can, and will, continue."

This is great news! I'm thrilled to hear that the universe will be expanded through more stories. I'm particularly excited about having future full games to play. I can also respect the balancing act of trying to address fan feedback in further content. It is not easy to collaborate, but an attempt to is greatly appreciated.

"Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

I'm glad to hear that there has been no loss of professional and artistic drive for the series to become even better. No artist should get comfortable with what they produce, and it's humbling to admit that their work can always be improved. This also assures me that well-formulated criticism will not be ignored.

"Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback."

And there is plenty of feedback to take in. I'm sure the community will do their best to continue to develop thoughtful commentary on ways in which the product can be improved.

Modifié par CommanderConnor, 21 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[LightweightJustice]

http://desmond.image....png&res=medium

[terdferguson123]

Ubergrog wrote...

I don't know what OP was talking about, but I can safely say that we have 'won' nothing. We were told "wait until april" and that's it.

What parat of: "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."  Do you not seem to understand? He just told you plain as day in that letter that the team is working on ways to address the ending. Seriously, a big chunk of you guys are just ignoring stuff so you can keep up the whine parade.

[NM_Che56]

[Moondoggie]

asdoorip wrote...

Give up. He's just trolling. If endings DLC comes out, he'll get it and then complain about how Art died the moment they did what we wanted.

SHE is not trolling, She simply does not agree with your views or want a dumbed down ending. If Bioware give in and made a new ending DLC or ending Patch or anything else that alters the ending to be completely simplistic and cliche i don't know what i will do. Perhaps lose respect for the developer and a fanbase that has in the past compaigned against dumbing down and making things simpler for the CoD crowd.

[Tranceptor]

Until it's available and is what the majority of outcries actually want, then nothing has been won quite yet.

[Mystical_Gaming]

So I read the article. It doesn't really say dlc ending but I hope it's something to that extent once we hear in April about it.

[Cody211282]

How they hell are they surprised that this is the reaction they got? I'm utterly confused by how they thought this would be ok I'm starting to think that they think we will just take whatever they hand us.

[die-yng]

I'm happy with the announcement and I'm sure that if they really get to work on it, Bioware can both keep the ending so far, valid for those who want that and add other options for those who don't.

I don't think this as BW admitting some kind of defeat, I see it as a company who thought they had a fitting ending, realizing that it didn't feel this way for their fans.

I remain confident that Bioware will do more than simply explain the existing ending better.
For the people who still aren't satisfied with the annoncement, you really should ask yourself, what would be acceptable to you?
BW lying before you on the floor and exposing it's throat? Or wetting itself from fear?
Or letting you write a new ending?

I never understood any comparison between DA 2 and ME3, the problems with DA2 didn't come from the ending in my opinion.

If you leave the ending out of it ME3 is a fantastic game, including everything it was suppossed to, while DA2 is a good game but with serious flaws.

Comparing NGE's endings with ME3 is really mixing pears with apples, those are simply two different mediums.
Not to forget that there are many fans who do like the EOE movie and it's conclusion (myself included) so what does it matter if Anno saw it as a huge FU to his fans? It's still much better and meaningful than the incoherent garbage that was the original tv ending.

[nicksmi56]

YES! YES!!! I'M SO HAPPY

[D1ck1e]

Status quo till it happens.

HOLD THE LINE

[NM_Che56]

If you all "win", will there be blue lights, red lights or green lights?

[IsleySilverlord]

Moondoggie wrote...

asdoorip wrote...

Give up. He's just trolling. If endings DLC comes out, he'll get it and then complain about how Art died the moment they did what we wanted.

SHE is not trolling, She simply does not agree with your views or want a dumbed down ending. If Bioware give in and made a new ending DLC or ending Patch or anything else that alters the ending to be completely simplistic and cliche i don't know what i will do. Perhaps lose respect for the developer and a fanbase that has in the past compaigned against dumbing down and making things simpler for the CoD crowd.

The fact is, which is what you don't understand, current endings ARE dumbed down.  They make no sense. They seek no purpose. They don't reflect any choice we did. They don't give closure. They make everything we did pointless. They destroyed the story we as gamers built.

If you can't see that, there's no way anything can be achieved through this conversation.

Also I'm blown away by your "endings fixed : simplistic and cliche (no matter how they are)" deduction.

[jimbo32]

It's - at best - wishful thinking to believe that Ray was promising anything. He didn't, so far as I can tell. His statement was just more PR nonsense, and to be perfectly honest, I'm *really* tired of it.

Until I see concrete plans which address the ending laid out in plain english, I can only believe that they're doing nothing but sticking to their original DLC release schedule.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

No, we DIDN'T win, unless you count getting half a cherry on top of a stinking turd (with backhanded "compliments" thrown in") a victory. There's no alternate ending or different ending mentioned, he just says they'll "clarify" the current endings and provide "closure".

[din626]

tkdrobert wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

I personally see this new response by Bioware co-founder as more PR. They are still defending the ending, trying to label the people that dislike it as the minority, when every poll either here or on other sites say otherwise. There is also a great disconnect with reviews of the game, big magazines and sites that do a lot of advertising or in IGN case they had one of their own in the game. They give the game great reviews, even though they have a conflict of inerest, and smaller but more honest reviewers of the game echo our dislike of not only the endings but how the endings reflect on the series lore itself.

All I got out of the Co-founder speech was PR damage control, defense of the ending and of the staff, trying to make the people that disliked the ending as a minority, and watch out we are answering questions in DLC so get out your wallets.

If the game is so good, and we are so few. Why does he say anything at all. It boils down to this they are realizing that they can't sweep this under the rug like they did DA2. DA2 had supposed critical acclaim, but the user score of the game was very low. I think it comes down to this sites and magazines that Bioware and EA pay big advertising too always seem to rate the games favorable, Smaller reviewers, and user score their games Honestly.

Hold the line

This is the problem with the internet.  A group of people get together and express an opinion.  They hang out in the same places and re-enforce each others ideas.  Then they all start to falsly belive that they are the majority, when in fact, they are just a "vocal" minority.  The fact is this, if 1 million people baught this game and 50,000 people complain, then you are not the majority.  The 950,000 people who did not complain are the majority.  Most peole who rant and rave on the Interest are negative.  Unfortunely, most people who like things don't feel the need to jump on the internet and praise it to the masses.  Most of those people don't care what the negative people think. 

What I'm saying is this:  If you have a problem with the ending, by all means express your opinions in a respectfull and contrcutive manner.  That is the only way you will be listened too.  Ranting and raving or using hybole does not get you anywhere.  I have read comments for both sides and the only comments that have moved me have been the respectful and constructive.  The rest of you are just immature and ridiculous and deserve to be ignored.  Also, don't complain about Bioware not responding, then when they do respond, you trash them.  That's ridiculous and again immature!

The question one should ask is, if 50,000 people is a rough cross-section of dissatisfied customers/fans who can be bothered to come here and say so.. what's the likely number of folks who simply shrug and won't pick it up again, or buy another game with the Bioware logo tacked onto it?

Average polls, when taken for political reasons are typically samples of only 1,000-3,000 people here in the UK, with a voting population of about 45,500,000. Those few thousand people are often taken, and often reflect, the voting intentions of people as a whole. 50,000 individual people clicked the "did not like" option on the poll. That's quite a lot of people no matter how you cut it.

And yet Bethesda did it on a whole lot less.... In about the same timeframe. Mostly because they know that core fanbases are the ones who buy all the ancillary tat, the ones who buy the special editions, the ones who actually care about the products they create themselves perhaps as fanatically as they do. They're the ones who genuinely and truly appreciate the visions they set out for us. They spend hundreds of man-hours crafting this and they know that out there the core fanbase appreciate the work.

The internet has shattered barriers so that the artist, and the audience are closer than before. And rather than fight them companies like Bethesda embrace them. The handling has been different compared to Beth. They realised that a vocal minority were, not unhappy with the ending, but slightly irked by the way it ended on a slideshow and took you back to the main menu, they fixed this. They charged for it (because of all the extra content they added) but they still fixed it.

Now, Beth took a good six months to wheel out Broken Steel, but folks were at least clarified and were thus placated.

[Aesieru]

Aesieru wrote...

No this doesn't make sense, we've been told the opposite numerous times and while I have no doubt that we'll get something that explains the results more, this does not make assets matter, it was not a surprise in any capacity that a person would expect what we were told or for assets to actually do something throughout the game, and we were not given the ability to save or let civilizations die depending on our choices.

The same result occurs no matter how you do it, the way you do it changes to the smallest and most insignificant manner but the end result is always the same.

This is actually more insulting because "content initiatives" is both as vague as you can possibly be, and not a fix. To also say they were "surprised" is to assume that we are all idiots.

---

IT WOULD SURPRISE ME INTENSELY IF ANYONE ACTUALLY BOUGHT INTO THIS SIDE-ESCAPE TECHNIQUE THAT THEY'VE JUST USED, BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT OUT OF THE BOOK.

[anihilato]

We haven't won until the DLC gets released. Keep at it until then.

Hold the line.

[NM_Che56]

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

No, we DIDN'T win, unless you count getting half a cherry on top of a stinking turd (with backhanded "compliments" thrown in") a victory. There's no alternate ending or different ending mentioned, he just says they'll "clarify" the current endings and provide "closure".

You got a cherry? I like cherries.

[Anima3x3]

We held the line and it's finally paying off!

Please guys, let's give Bioware the benefit of the doubt and keep it civil.

Time to replay ME3, methinks... maybe the new content will be ready by the time I get there...

[lucidfox]

We haven't won. This is just more PR stalling.

[UndeadTRex]

This is no victory. At best this is a glimmer of hope. Until there is a new, satisfying, ending on my Xbox, we must continue to apply pressure. Hold the line.