351 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

Not really, if people are not satisfied with their product then they are perfectly in their rights to ask for refunds. While I will not be trying to get my money back, I wasn't satisfied with the product as a whole.

And the people who criticise the "haters" often say "If you don't like it then don't buy it", and refunds are only the logical conclusion to that train of thought. 

Modifié par EJ107, 21 mars 2012 - 11:03 .

[The Spamming Troll]

i wouldnt ask for a refund with ME3. the game is awesome. im fully behind the indoctro theory even tho id bet my last cent on bioware having no intention of giving us that meaning. hell im not even sure they know what happened in their own ending.

but can i get a refund for ME2, because that game had very little of what a game called MASS EFFECT 2 should have in it. id love a refund for that garbage game.

[MrAtomica]

This isn't something I would do to personally attack Bioware. Rather, I would resort to this if I felt that the product I had been sold did not meet my expectations (expectations which were, at least in part, cultivated by Bioware). I still hold out hope that DLC will rectify the endings, but I can respect people who feel let down.

Some of the promises were met, some were quite obviously not. Fortunately, the American political system has more than honed my cynical nature, to the point where I take everything I hear with a fistful of salt. I won't argue that there were some preeetty misleading statements made by some of the developers, though.

[Gatt9]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

In many retail stores, certain items don't go back on sale on the floor. From what I understand from family members that work retail is that items such as your example of underwear are sent back to the manufacturer as a return to THEM for a refund as well. 

Well, laughing at the customer WOULD tend to cause them to get upset. I could definitely understand why you seemed to have an issue with irate customers if that's how you treated them. 

Your response is well, also the completely wrong response. It really does amaze me how so many employers; whether you're actively dealing with customers or not don't teach you how to properly de-escalate conflicts. At least you're very up front with the anti-customer sentiment. I suppose that's a redeeming quality. 

The customer is always an idiot. If we stop coddling them, eventually they may actually learn some personal responsibility and stop crying because they dropped their lollipop.

Man, really not doing a good job presenting yourself in a 'responsible' light. 

I mean, the best way to get customers to keep buying your product / shop at your store is to throw insults at them, and demean them. Truly sir or madam; you must run the greatest company known to man. Prithee; enlighten us further on how to inspire customer loyalty  through negative reinforcement.

I never said I run a company. I said I workeD retail. So, uh, F on reading comprehension for you there. And as for customer loyalty... these people aren't the ones I'd want loyal to me in the first place. The ones throwing hissy fits when something doesn't live up to their overblown expectations, the ones who will rip employees on twitter and Facebook with all sorts of personal insults for literally no reason, the ones who will wish people who disagree with their opinions to die - TO ACTUALLY DIE BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH AN OPINION.... these kinds of people I don't want anywhere near me.

It's the first rule of being a bartender. If there's a group of people being rowdy and obnoxious and causing problems, you need to throw them out of the bar or the ones who AREN'T being rowdy and obnoxious and causing problems will leave. Even if it costs you the first group's business, you'll get more business from people who actually want to come and not cause problems.

There's a large difference between 3 drunk people in a bar,  and a very large portion of your fanbase being upset.  You may want to spend some time contemplating the "New Coke" incident for the reasons why your arguement leads to Bioware folding.

Ironically,  you also remind me of Fallout 3.  Where Gamespy wished for Fallout fans to all go and die because they were successfully arguing about why Bethesda was making very bad design decisions.  Funny how no one had a problem with it in the other direction.

As far as lies go...

in the stickied thread on page 1,  and numerous times before,  Bioware claimed you don't need MP to get the optimal ending.  Except,  you do.  It's impossible to do it without MP.

[Father_Jerusalem]

If it's unopened, you get a refund.

If it's opened and the retailer is stupid and allows you to return opened merchandise for any reason, you get a refund.

If it's broken when you open it and does not work, or is shattered into a million pieces, you get a refund.

If it works just fine, you simply didn't like it, you don't get the refund.

Honest to god, how the hell is this a difficult concept to grasp?

[Jayelle Janson]

I wouldn't expect a refund for a media product I didn't like but wouldn't getting a full refund be better for Bioware/EA rather than it being sold on as a pre-owned game?

[MrAtomica]

The PLC wrote...

PyroTechNiK wrote...

No I don't. People saw the product as inferior so they got their money back.

But they completed the entire game! You can't just demand a refund for a movie because you didn't like the ending, or a CD because you didn't like certain tracks. How the hell does this make any sense to anyone?!

I don't feel that other mediums are comparable to video games, at least in terms of expectations versus reality - especially games like Mass Effect, which are billed as pivoting around player choice as the focal point. That overall theme has sounded true for 2 and 9/10 of the trilogy, and it stands to reason that we would expect it to continue here. I see your point here, but it should also be noted that very few games have ever altered their endings because of fan outcry. The fact that this game, in particular, has such a vocal fanbase, is actually somewhat flattering for Bioware. It means that they have created a truly passionate community, which treats their games as worth saving.

We aren't always courteous in our discourse, but most of us strive to be polite. We are firm in repeating that we are not satisfied with the ending of our product, but we still loved most of it. Even the people who are getting refunds often mention that they might come back, granted some DLC fixes the endings.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Gatt9 wrote...

There's a large difference between 3 drunk people in a bar,  and a very large portion of your fanbase being upset.  You may want to spend some time contemplating the "New Coke" incident for the reasons why your arguement leads to Bioware folding.

Ironically,  you also remind me of Fallout 3.  Where Gamespy wished for Fallout fans to all go and die because they were successfully arguing about why Bethesda was making very bad design decisions.  Funny how no one had a problem with it in the other direction.

As far as lies go...

in the stickied thread on page 1,  and numerous times before,  Bioware claimed you don't need MP to get the optimal ending.  Except,  you do.  It's impossible to do it without MP.

Except you're not a "very large portion", you simply use a tainted poll and corrupted sample group to... oh the hell with it, I'm not even getting into this. 

And what Gamespy was WRONG to telling fans to go and die, and I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I didn't have a problem with it is because I.... didn't know about it. Because I didn't pay attention to that whole thing, because I like Fallout, but I don't love Fallout like I love BioWare games. So, good job pointing out that I wasn't pissed at a company that did something that I didn't know about them doing, I guess?

Thirdly, I've conceded that one. In this very thread, even. That is a verifiable lie, backed up with concrete evidence. If you want to burn BioWare HQ to the ground and put them out of business over it... well... that says a lot about the kind of person you are. But yes, that ONE example is a lie, and nobody sane will try and deny that.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The PLC wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If it's unopened, you get a refund.

If it's opened and the retailer is stupid and allows you to return opened merchandise for any reason, you get a refund.

If it's broken when you open it and does not work, or is shattered into a million pieces, you get a refund.

If it works just fine, you simply didn't like it, you don't get the refund.

Honest to god, how the hell is this a difficult concept to grasp?

But... but... the game didn't live up to my expectations!!!! What else should I do? sellt he game like every sane person would do? No way!

Clearly, the answer these people are choosing is "**** about it ad nauseum on an internet forum". So... good for them?

[Ianamus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If it's unopened, you get a refund.

If it's opened and the retailer is stupid and allows you to return opened merchandise for any reason, you get a refund.

If it's broken when you open it and does not work, or is shattered into a million pieces, you get a refund.

If it works just fine, you simply didn't like it, you don't get the refund.

Honest to god, how the hell is this a difficult concept to grasp?

Not really. 

If I buy a T-shirt with a print on it, and the print does not match what the website showed, or is not as good a quality as I had anticipated then I have a right to return it. 

It still functions perfectly well as a T-shirt, but the quality is bad, or I didn't get what I was promised. Those make me eligible for a refund, and Mass Effect 3 had both of those problems. 

[Drudgie]

Of course its fine.
They lied.

[MrAtomica]

The PLC wrote...

Jayelle Janson wrote...

I wouldn't expect a refund for a media product I didn't like but wouldn't getting a full refund be better for Bioware/EA rather than it being sold on as a pre-owned game?

Yup. Which just makes these people look even more silly. 

You need to realize that no other media product has ever gotten as much flak as this game has, at least to my knowledge. I have never seen such a large number of people voice such discontent for a game, nor have I ever seen news sites take such an active role in shaping a story revolving around such discontent. This is an unprecedented situation, so it cannot be compared to any other hypothetical example.

[AdeptusAstartes]

PLC Said.....
I'm just having a really hard time seeing, how you can justify asking for a refund, because you didn't like the ending of a piece of entertainment. It's not Amazon's (just an example) fault. Why should they have to give you your money back, when you've already completed the game?! That's like renting the game, for free, and that is not how stuff works. 

Apparently it IS how stuff works if people are able to get a refund.

If the ENDING of the game ruined the rest of the experience for them, rendering the product unusable in the future, why should someone NOT attempt to get a refund? Apparently enough people felt that the ending carried enough weight to sour the rest of the game they felt it was worthwile to get their money back. 

A game is a piece of interactive media, trying to hold it to the same standard as films (And you CAN get a refund at the theater. Quite a few people I went to see Episode 1 with did), or the restaurant analogy is disengious as best.
You are not able to make that final determination until those end credits roll and can make a final judgement if the package was worth it.

Do you really think there would be so much shovelware out there if more people returned software that was not worth the $60? That we would get so many obviously incomplete games that we're expected to pay for again LATER with DLC? Part of this move to return the game is also built on the goal to hold developers and publishers accountable for their practices.  

[android654]

The PLC wrote...

PyroTechNiK wrote...

No I don't. People saw the product as inferior so they got their money back.

But they completed the entire game! You can't just demand a refund for a movie because you didn't like the ending, or a CD because you didn't like certain tracks. How the hell does this make any sense to anyone?!

Actually you can. If you go to the ticket booth, they'll usually refund you is you find the movie distasteful enough. Anyway, if they get a refund who cares? It's not like they're cheating you out of money, they're simply trying to get some satisfaction from something they thought wasn't worth they trouble. If Amazzon or Gamestop gives them a refund, good for them.

[SalsaDMA]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

No refunds on opened merchandise. If that's the store's policy, regardless of WHY it's the store's policy, what gives YOU the right to demand that they change that policy for you?

Stuff like common laws, you know.

If the product doesn't meet the criteria it is sold upon, then you can get your money back.

By your claims, if I went out and bought some merchandise, opened the package and discovered a thriving fungus colony on the backside of said merchandise (which wouldn't be discoverable before opening the packaging), I wouldn't be able to get refunded despite the product clearly not living up to expectations.

Sorry, but I kinda disagree with your assertations here. what you are asking for is the ability for sellers to flat out swindle their consumers or sell snake oil un-contested.

[Father_Jerusalem]

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If it's unopened, you get a refund.

If it's opened and the retailer is stupid and allows you to return opened merchandise for any reason, you get a refund.

If it's broken when you open it and does not work, or is shattered into a million pieces, you get a refund.

If it works just fine, you simply didn't like it, you don't get the refund.

Honest to god, how the hell is this a difficult concept to grasp?

Not really. 

If I buy a T-shirt with a print on it, and the print does not match what the website showed, or is not as good a quality as I had anticipated then I have a right to return it. 

It still functions perfectly well as a T-shirt, but the quality is bad, or I didn't get what I was promised. Those make me eligible for a refund, and Mass Effect 3 had both of those problems. 

That falls under the criteria of "defective product" because it is clearly defective from what you ordered. Mass Effect 3 is NOT defective. It's just not. It may not live up to your ridiculous expectations for it, but it is in no way a defective product. 

To make this clear. If you had bought Mass Effect 3 from a website, and they shipped you a copy of Hello Kitty Island Adventure instead, that would be cause for a refund. If you bought Mass Effect 3 from a website, and they shipped you a copy of Mass Effect 3, and you just ended up not liking the game, that is NOT cause for a refund.

[SalsaDMA]

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

The PLC wrote...

android654 wrote...

You buy something, you really don't like it, and you don't try to get your money back or sell it?

Sure, I might try and sell it, but there's no way I would go back to the store and ask for my money back. It makes no sense!

Why doesn't it? If the product doesn't give you the satisifaction you were told it would why would you not? Doing anything ELSE makes no sense to me.  

You just purchased a car. It seemed like a really nice, fly ride. You drive it for a few days and...the seat doesn't seem as comfortable as it was when you were testing it and now your back hurts in the morning. You just filled up the gas tank for the first time, and after doing the math; the mileage comes nowhere near close to what was advertised. Would you keep that car because you used it? Or would you be like...lolno and take that thing back.

Or the alarm in the car keeps going off

[MrAtomica]

Yeah, like I said, I wouldn't do that personally. I'm just trying to give the refund camp a fair shake. We really aren't qualified to make concrete statements either way, since this whole thing is totally new for everyone. The fact that Amazon and other retailers are accepting these refund requests seems to imply that they are, at the very least, comfortable with the arguments that they are being given as to why they should.

This whole debacle is actually really exciting for me. We are writing gaming history, here. Whatever comes of this, you can be quite sure that developers will devote some more time to ensuring the wisdom of their choices. I don't think that any self-respecting individual would relish a repeat of this scenario over their product.