351 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

I'd argue that Mass Effect 3 falls under "false marketing" personally, at least when the endings come into play. The website clearly states that "Your choices matter". They do not. Therefore the website is misleading you.  

And my expectations, like many's, were far from "ridiculous". Wanting an endings that actually makes sense and wraps things up is far from "riciculous". 

Anyway, the story is "Amazon offers refunds" not "fans demand refunds", so nobody's going over the top. To be completely honest, people who don't want the game anymore would be fools not to accept a refund when it's being offered. 

And you're another one of those who screams all about how BioWare lied to them, when the truth of the matter is the game simply didn't live up to your ridiculous expectations. Lovely.


Your choices DO matter, maybe not in the way you would want them to, but they do. There are multiple endings, maybe not as different or as many as you want, but there are multiple endings. Just because YOUR expectations weren't met doesn't mean that BioWare LIED. Learn the difference.

The ONLY case you have a point on is when BioWare said you didn't have to play Multiplayer to get the best ending in Single player. That is baked up with verifiable evidence. That's it. That's the only thing you can make a case on.

I don't scream about how Bioware lied to me, but just because I don't feel like that does not mean that it isn't an argument for the people who want refunds. 

And you seem to have completely ignored my point about my expectations (And 98% of the fanbases, according to you) being "ridiculous". I'll say it agian, since you seemed to be unable to understand it the first time: Wanting an ending that makes sense is not "ridiculous". It's perfectly reasonable. 

If someone promises a brilliant picture of a person and you buy it and it's just a stick figure, but the artist thought it was "brilliant" does that mean the consumer just had "ridicuolous expectations?" 

And it has nothing to do with my expectations. Casey Hudson specifically said that you "wouldn't get an ending where it goes: Press button 1 for ending A, 2 for ending B and 3 for ending C" but that is exaxctly what we got. That is a lie, whatever your expectations were. 

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

[Ianamus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

But Amazon are not changing their policies. They are just offering people refunds. If they want to do that then fine, and people have every right to take advantage of that if they want to. 

And neither of us are "right" about the endings. We each have our opinions on them and are entitled to them. 

But you have no more right to say that my expectations were "ridiculosuly high" than I have to say that your expectations were "ridiculously low". And just becuase you liked the product does not give you the right to say that people who were not satisfied just "expected too much". 

Modifié par EJ107, 21 mars 2012 - 11:58 .

[The Executioner]

I'm going to try to thursday if i can't get a refund i'm trading it in. ME3 is just not what i wanted. EA lied to us .

[Father_Jerusalem]

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

But Amazon are not changing their policies. They are just offering people refunds. If they want to do that then fine, and people have every right to take advantage of that if they want to. 

And neither of us are "right" about the endings. We each have our opinions on them and are entitled to them. 

But you have no more right to say that my expectations were "ridculosuly high" than I have to say that your expectations were "ridiculously low". And just becuase you liked the product does not give you the right to say that people who were not satisfied just "expected too much". 

If your side is threatening lawsuits and BBB complaints based on those expecations? You bet your ass I do. Because you're trying to claim false advertising, and BioWare did not lie, they simply did not live up to YOUR expectations. So if you're trying to burn BioWare to the ground because of those expectations? You bet your ass I have the right to say that your expectations are too high.

And for the record, I've said NUMEROUS times, that if Amazon is stupid enough to give refunds on open merchandise, TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. Get all the money you can out of them. If that's their policy, exploit it to your little heart's content. GO RIGHT AHEAD, I'm sure as hell not going to tell you not to. That's THEIR choice, and they're the ones who are going to pay for it.

What I've ALSO said is that if that's NOT the policy of a company, that you DON'T have the right to demand they change it simply because you didn't like the ending. 

Seriously, how is that, in any way, controversial?

[android654]

Why are people so upset about people just getting their money back?

[Ianamus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If your side is threatening lawsuits and BBB complaints based on those expecations? You bet your ass I do. Because you're trying to claim false advertising, and BioWare did not lie, they simply did not live up to YOUR expectations. So if you're trying to burn BioWare to the ground because of those expectations? You bet your ass I have the right to say that your expectations are too high.

But I'm not trying to burn Bioware to the ground, or threatening to put up lawsuits or whatever stupid things some people are doing. I don't even want a refund myself. I'm just saying that the people accepting refunds from Amazon are not acting ridiculously, not when the company is openly allowing them. 

Modifié par EJ107, 22 mars 2012 - 12:07 .

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

But Amazon are not changing their policies. They are just offering people refunds. If they want to do that then fine, and people have every right to take advantage of that if they want to. 

And neither of us are "right" about the endings. We each have our opinions on them and are entitled to them. 

But you have no more right to say that my expectations were "ridculosuly high" than I have to say that your expectations were "ridiculously low". And just becuase you liked the product does not give you the right to say that people who were not satisfied just "expected too much". 

If your side is threatening lawsuits and BBB complaints based on those expecations? You bet your ass I do. Because you're trying to claim false advertising, and BioWare did not lie, they simply did not live up to YOUR expectations. So if you're trying to burn BioWare to the ground because of those expectations? You bet your ass I have the right to say that your expectations are too high.

And for the record, I've said NUMEROUS times, that if Amazon is stupid enough to give refunds on open merchandise, TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. Get all the money you can out of them. If that's their policy, exploit it to your little heart's content. GO RIGHT AHEAD, I'm sure as hell not going to tell you not to. That's THEIR choice, and they're the ones who are going to pay for it.

What I've ALSO said is that if that's NOT the policy of a company, that you DON'T have the right to demand they change it simply because you didn't like the ending. 

Seriously, how is that, in any way, controversial?

Yawn....  Prove that interviews about products do not fall under advertising laws.  Or better yet show me a case that was dismissed because of it.  Or heck even a case that went to court on the premise.  If there is no current law, and no previous case then it is a legal grey area.

[MICHELLE7]

If a company is offering refund's for opened games I don't see any problem with it. For those who bought from companies that don't offer refunds for opened merchandise there is always ebay...I sell most of my used games on there...at least you get some of your money back...even more if your game includes unused game codes (a lot of my console games do because I'm not connected to the internet.

[Father_Jerusalem]

EJ107 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

If your side is threatening lawsuits and BBB complaints based on those expecations? You bet your ass I do. Because you're trying to claim false advertising, and BioWare did not lie, they simply did not live up to YOUR expectations. So if you're trying to burn BioWare to the ground because of those expectations? You bet your ass I have the right to say that your expectations are too high.

But I'm not trying to burn Bioware to the ground, or threatening to put up lawsuits or whatever stupid things some people are doing. I don't even want a refund myself. I'm just saying that the people accepting refunds from Amazon are not acting ridiculously, not when the company is openly allowing them. 

And. I've. Said. That. Too.

It's when people demand that a company's policies change for them that it's ridiculous.

Good GRIEF. 

If Amazon's doing this, pillage them for every cent you can. I DON'T CARE. I don't agree with it, but it's WELL within your rights to do it. GOD.

[Father_Jerusalem]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yawn....  Prove that interviews about products do not fall under advertising laws.  Or better yet show me a case that was dismissed because of it.  Or heck even a case that went to court on the premise.  If there is no current law, and no previous case then it is a legal grey area.

Prove that there aren't multiple endings. You can't.

Prove that your choices don't matter. You can't.

Prove this. Prove that. Prove the other thing. 

If you're complaining BioWare lied, IT'S ON YOU TO PROVE THAT THEY DID, AND VAGUE COMMENTS FROM DEVELOPERS THAT SIMPLY DO NOT LIVE UP TO YOUR STANDARDS ARE NOT EVIDENCE OF LIES. God DAMN. 

There is ONE statement in that laundry list of complaints about what BioWare said that is quantifiably and factually a lie. ONE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND SPECULATION IF NOT OUTRIGHT FACTUALLY ACCURATE - EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

You want to make a case against them for lying about Multiplayer being required? HAVE AT IT. I won't even try defending that. Be my freaking guest.

But everything else, EVERYTHING, has no legal or factual leg to stand on. 

[TLK Spires]

absolutely not. they did not receive what they paid for, and thus are entitled to a full refund.

[Father_Jerusalem]

TLK Spires wrote...

absolutely not. they did not receive what they paid for, and thus are entitled to a full refund.

They recei... oh the hell with it.

[Persephone]

If you can get one & want one, by all means, do so.

But don't scream for better endings to a game you just returned.... That's like.... trying asking for a long, natural braid after cutting your hair.

[Father_Jerusalem]

corpselover wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

Logic? Narrative consistency?

You can't throw out an argument that you can't defend and then support it by telling people not to respond. That is not a valid defense of your position.

I can defend the HELL out of it, don't accuse me of not being able to. I simply know that people on your side will always claim to be right, and will always claim me to be an idiot, simply because I liked something you don't.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

android654 wrote...

Why are people so upset about people just getting their money back?

Because they have nothing better to do apparently.

[Salis777]

corpselover wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

"Just because I don't feel like that" is no legal or ethical justification for forcing a business to change their practices for you. It's no legal or ethical justification to file complaints with the FTC and BBB and to file lawsuits against a company to try and put them out of business. I'm sorry, that's asinine.

And for the record, I thought the ending DID make sense. The ending gave me the satisfaction I wanted, it gave me sense of accomplishment I wanted, and I LIKED it. So, who's right in this situation? You, who says it doesn't make sense, or me, who says it does? How do you settle that dispute?

Oh, don't bother answering. I know your answer already.

Logic? Narrative consistency?

You can't throw out an argument that you can't defend and then support it by telling people not to respond. That is not a valid defense of your position.

Sounds like the entire thread lol

[ADelusiveMan]

android654 wrote...

Why are people so upset about people just getting their money back?

Artistic integrity. 

[nssBoB]

cool, now go try return box of chocolate after you ate it.

[Farbautisonn]

nssBoB wrote...

cool, now go try return box of chocolate after you ate it.

If you eat most of the chocolate from a box only to find out it "did not live up to your expectations" most major chocolatiers will actually let you return it... hell they will send you a new and larger box if you are even half right about what you claim.

[Erghiez06]

I work in a video game store. If we sell a game under the promise that it works, and it doesn't work, we fix it or replace it with a working copy. Should no copy be available we refund the customer. Its customer service. Promising to deliver on something while failing to do so and refusing to do anything about it is just bad in any way that you look at it.

On a side note - I did not reference that I work in a video game retail store to provide any sort of "nerd superiority" above anyone else. I could have simply stated that I worked retail. Its a job, and not as glamorous as some people think.

[nevar00]

Not at all. They flat out lied about their product. That's all there is to it.

[Gigamantis]

nevar00 wrote...

Not at all. They flat out lied about their product. That's all there is to it.

They told you your decisions could result in various different endings.  What did they lie about?  

[ADelusiveMan]

Gigamantis wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Not at all. They flat out lied about their product. That's all there is to it.

They told you your decisions could result in various different endings.  What did they lie about?  

....it didn't result in various different endings?

[Gigamantis]

ADelusiveMan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Not at all. They flat out lied about their product. That's all there is to it.

They told you your decisions could result in various different endings.  What did they lie about?  

....it didn't result in various different endings?

3 different endings.  I repeat, what did they lie about?

Modifié par Gigamantis, 22 mars 2012 - 12:44 .