351 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

Mega.scream wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...


repeating a lie enough times doesn't make it right, you know.

edit: And you are still going on with the personal attacks. Is it so hard to communicate without them?

The fact that... I'm right, makes it right. There is no legal standard by which ANY of those quotes that you all cry about would be construed as "False or deceptive advertising". Well, okay, the exception is the Multiplayer quote. That one you have a leg to stand on. So.. congrats, out of 30 or whatever quotes, you found one that actually backs your position.

Why do you care? Arguing with people isn't going to change their perception.

Because they keep harping that they were lied to, and it's obnoxious. It's not factual. And it's utterly dishonest. 

Once people accept that, we can move on and have actual productive conversations about their actual issues. But if they're going to continue being intellectually dishonest, I don't give a single crap about anything else they have to say.

[Haiyato]

I don't. It sucks but thats the nature of the beast. The customer has every right to either like or dislike your product.

Usually with electronics and digital mediums you have like two weeks to return it. You may have to make a scene or flail about to get the refund but it will happen and it then it turns into a charge back to the manufacturer unfortunately. There are pretty much a lot links floating around pointing to what the expectation was before the game released. These folks seeking returns are not happy with the product. To be honest, I never seen something on this scale or at least don't recall something on this scale. However, I can't bring myself to return my CE. My ME1 and ME2 CE edition would look naked with out it now. But depending on what happens in two weeks, I may or may not continue buying any products from Bioware.

[cmj428]

So wow not only has the polarizing ending turned backlash onto BioWare but now we are getting infighting within the fan base. I think BioWare sadly misjudged how just how bad the response to the endings would be.

But really can we disagree and remain civil?

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

repeating a lie enough times doesn't make it right, you know.

edit: And you are still going on with the personal attacks. Is it so hard to communicate without them?

Agreed, every time this guy logs on it just turns into sh*t slinging.  And half is argument his I don't want to fight with people.

I act reasonabley to reasonable people. If I'm reading a thread and I see the attitude of people veering wildly towards the negative even to responses that have no negativity, why should I bother trying to be positive to you?

Because in any group debate someone is going to bait you.  If you respond the whole thing turns to crap.  So don't.  Ignore the 2% of flames, and discuss the subject.  Or don't, but it's going to go nowhere if you just react all the time.

Modifié par Salis777, 21 mars 2012 - 10:14 .

[AdeptusAstartes]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Actually, by your definition. That's the beauty of a free market, consumer driven product. Even though it meets YOUR definition of what the product is, it might not meet someone else's, so they're able to return it as it was not what they believed they were purchasing. 

Resorting to the language that you're using is really uncalled for when all I'm doing is explaining how a consumer driven market works. 

It's not that it meets MY definition, it's that it meets the LEGAL definition. And if you're returning an UNOPENED, UNUSED copy of the game, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free. If you're returning an OPEN, USED copy to a RETAILER THAT ALLOWS IT, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free.

If you're demanding that retailers give you refunds on your OPEN, USED copy when they have NO POLICY that allows it, you have no leg to stand on. If you accept it and move on, fine. If you keep arguing and demanding that they give you a refund, you deserve to be laughed at.

For the math lovers out there: TWO circumstances in which refunds are a-okay, even if I don't agree with your reasoning. ONE circumstance in which refunds are not a-okay, yet you continue to harp on this one.

No, from where I started responding to you; you've changed your argument. I indicated that the only thing that kept software from being returned like any other consumer product is the rise of piracy, indicating that there is no real other reason why such an item cannot be returned like any other that does meet the USER'S specifications. Wherein you devolved into a diatribe involving ponies and sacks. Really sir, such language does not befit a man of the cloth.

[Father_Jerusalem]

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

In many retail stores, certain items don't go back on sale on the floor. From what I understand from family members that work retail is that items such as your example of underwear are sent back to the manufacturer as a return to THEM for a refund as well. 

Well, laughing at the customer WOULD tend to cause them to get upset. I could definitely understand why you seemed to have an issue with irate customers if that's how you treated them. 

Your response is well, also the completely wrong response. It really does amaze me how so many employers; whether you're actively dealing with customers or not don't teach you how to properly de-escalate conflicts. At least you're very up front with the anti-customer sentiment. I suppose that's a redeeming quality. 

The customer is always an idiot. If we stop coddling them, eventually they may actually learn some personal responsibility and stop crying because they dropped their lollipop.

Man, really not doing a good job presenting yourself in a 'responsible' light. 

I mean, the best way to get customers to keep buying your product / shop at your store is to throw insults at them, and demean them. Truly sir or madam; you must run the greatest company known to man. Prithee; enlighten us further on how to inspire customer loyalty  through negative reinforcement.

I never said I run a company. I said I workeD retail. So, uh, F on reading comprehension for you there. And as for customer loyalty... these people aren't the ones I'd want loyal to me in the first place. The ones throwing hissy fits when something doesn't live up to their overblown expectations, the ones who will rip employees on twitter and Facebook with all sorts of personal insults for literally no reason, the ones who will wish people who disagree with their opinions to die - TO ACTUALLY DIE BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH AN OPINION.... these kinds of people I don't want anywhere near me.

It's the first rule of being a bartender. If there's a group of people being rowdy and obnoxious and causing problems, you need to throw them out of the bar or the ones who AREN'T being rowdy and obnoxious and causing problems will leave. Even if it costs you the first group's business, you'll get more business from people who actually want to come and not cause problems.

[Father_Jerusalem]

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Actually, by your definition. That's the beauty of a free market, consumer driven product. Even though it meets YOUR definition of what the product is, it might not meet someone else's, so they're able to return it as it was not what they believed they were purchasing. 

Resorting to the language that you're using is really uncalled for when all I'm doing is explaining how a consumer driven market works. 

It's not that it meets MY definition, it's that it meets the LEGAL definition. And if you're returning an UNOPENED, UNUSED copy of the game, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free. If you're returning an OPEN, USED copy to a RETAILER THAT ALLOWS IT, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free.

If you're demanding that retailers give you refunds on your OPEN, USED copy when they have NO POLICY that allows it, you have no leg to stand on. If you accept it and move on, fine. If you keep arguing and demanding that they give you a refund, you deserve to be laughed at.

For the math lovers out there: TWO circumstances in which refunds are a-okay, even if I don't agree with your reasoning. ONE circumstance in which refunds are not a-okay, yet you continue to harp on this one.

No, from where I started responding to you; you've changed your argument. I indicated that the only thing that kept software from being returned like any other consumer product is the rise of piracy, indicating that there is no real other reason why such an item cannot be returned like any other that does meet the USER'S specifications. Wherein you devolved into a diatribe involving ponies and sacks. Really sir, such language does not befit a man of the cloth.

No refunds on opened merchandise. If that's the store's policy, regardless of WHY it's the store's policy, what gives YOU the right to demand that they change that policy for you?

[Bhaal]

Nope

[AdeptusAstartes]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

Actually, by your definition. That's the beauty of a free market, consumer driven product. Even though it meets YOUR definition of what the product is, it might not meet someone else's, so they're able to return it as it was not what they believed they were purchasing. 

Resorting to the language that you're using is really uncalled for when all I'm doing is explaining how a consumer driven market works. 

It's not that it meets MY definition, it's that it meets the LEGAL definition. And if you're returning an UNOPENED, UNUSED copy of the game, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free. If you're returning an OPEN, USED copy to a RETAILER THAT ALLOWS IT, have at it. Go ahead. Feel free.

If you're demanding that retailers give you refunds on your OPEN, USED copy when they have NO POLICY that allows it, you have no leg to stand on. If you accept it and move on, fine. If you keep arguing and demanding that they give you a refund, you deserve to be laughed at.

For the math lovers out there: TWO circumstances in which refunds are a-okay, even if I don't agree with your reasoning. ONE circumstance in which refunds are not a-okay, yet you continue to harp on this one.

No, from where I started responding to you; you've changed your argument. I indicated that the only thing that kept software from being returned like any other consumer product is the rise of piracy, indicating that there is no real other reason why such an item cannot be returned like any other that does meet the USER'S specifications. Wherein you devolved into a diatribe involving ponies and sacks. Really sir, such language does not befit a man of the cloth.

No refunds on opened merchandise. If that's the store's policy, regardless of WHY it's the store's policy, what gives YOU the right to demand that they change that policy for you?

I'm not demanding anything. Are you aware of EVERY single retailer's policy regarding open games/electronics?

If a consumer is able to get a refund of a product they were not satisfied with. More power to them. Drinking a gallon of hater-ade over it doesn't change it. Nor does whether or not if YOU think they should get the refund or not. If they were able to convince whatever retailer that they had a strong enough argument for the policy to be waived, (if they HAD that policy) then the retailer likely decided it was in their best interests to satisfy that customer. 

Did I hate the ending? Holy crap did I ever. 

Did it ruin the rest of the game for me? I haven't finished a second playthrough, and mostly stopped playing multi-player, so take that how you will.

Am I going to return it? Highly unlikely. Most improbable. Not because I don't think I could; because I could be very, polite to the customer service rep and have likely have the $160 back in my account for both mine and my wife's DDE by the end of the week. 

Why am I not? Because I hold out a small sliver of hope that if they produce new ending content it will be worth it, and I'd rather not have to repurchase it.


However, I definitely understand how there are people for whom the ending ruined the ENTIRE game for them; so if the entire value of the product is gone; why not get a refund if they can? Do I agree with all the things that are said? No. There really isnt' a point for all the negativity that both the Anti-Ending and the OMG UR ENTITLED groups both throw out there. It only makes both sides look like what they're portraying the other as. Calling someone all variety of names because they're simply a dis-satisified consumer and would like compensation for what they consider a faulty product does no service to ANYONE involved. 

[android654]

You buy something, you really don't like it, and you don't try to get your money back or sell it?

[SteamPunkJin]

I think there's a BIG difference between 'I did not enjoy any of this product, I would like my money back.' and 'I enjoyed all of it until the End, and I even though I've consumed ALL of it, I want my money back.'

You can send food back or complain at a restaurant - but not if you ate the whole plate. People are just being greedy and think they're somehow punishing Bioware - you're not, you're punishing Amazon.

[AdeptusAstartes]

The PLC wrote...

android654 wrote...

You buy something, you really don't like it, and you don't try to get your money back or sell it?

Sure, I might try and sell it, but there's no way I would go back to the store and ask for my money back. It makes no sense!

Why doesn't it? If the product doesn't give you the satisifaction you were told it would why would you not? Doing anything ELSE makes no sense to me.  

You just purchased a car. It seemed like a really nice, fly ride. You drive it for a few days and...the seat doesn't seem as comfortable as it was when you were testing it and now your back hurts in the morning. You just filled up the gas tank for the first time, and after doing the math; the mileage comes nowhere near close to what was advertised. Would you keep that car because you used it? Or would you be like...lolno and take that thing back.

Modifié par AdeptusAstartes, 21 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[dubdevo]

I can't believe anybody is actually getting a full refund for an opened game, that they finished.

[highmofo]

SteamPunkJin wrote...

I think there's a BIG difference between 'I did not enjoy any of this product, I would like my money back.' and 'I enjoyed all of it until the End, and I even though I've consumed ALL of it, I want my money back.'

You can send food back or complain at a restaurant - but not if you ate the whole plate. People are just being greedy and think they're somehow punishing Bioware - you're not, you're punishing Amazon.

Agreed. This is what i was trying to say in my OP!!!!!!!!!!

If you hated all of the gameplay in Mass effect 3 (you're probably just bad at RPGs if this is you ) then sure you deserve a refund.

But for what i'd GUESS is the majority of people that played the game all the way to the end and was disappointed with the end then No you should not get a refund, cause lets face it - if you weren't enjoying the game you wouldn't of ever reached the end because who continues a game they dont like? Thus by reaching the ending you are sort of admiting that you enjoyed the game; ergo no refund:)

Modifié par highmofo, 21 mars 2012 - 10:56 .

[AdeptusAstartes]

The PLC wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

The PLC wrote...

android654 wrote...

You buy something, you really don't like it, and you don't try to get your money back or sell it?

Sure, I might try and sell it, but there's no way I would go back to the store and ask for my money back. It makes no sense!

Why doesn't it? If the product doesn't give you the satisifaction you were told it would why would you not? Doing anything ELSE makes no sense to me.

Wow.. You played the ENTIRE GAME to reach the ending you didn't like. As many other have said, that's like telling the waitress at a resturant you want your money back, after you've eaten the entire meal! It makes no damn sense. 

 
Look at the edit I made apparently in the time that you were responding to this to elaborate on my point.

[ragnorok87]

nuff said

[slyborg]

If I bought a product that I loved, bit into it and it tasted bad and saw on the box that it now had "Improved Flavor" I'd have every right to take it back because I had previous expectations of what I purchased and the company's idea of flavor no longer agrees with me.

Same thing here.

If that LAST bite of your meal has a cockroach in it, you have the right to send it back.

Modifié par slyborg, 21 mars 2012 - 11:00 .

[PyroTechNiK]

No I don't. People saw the product as inferior so they got their money back.

[pfellahX]

I wouldn't ask for a refund. They offered a product, I bought it, and I liked about 97% of it.

That said, I cancelled my Old Republic account and won't be buying any more Bioware products until I see how they handle this. If they charge us for a proper ending, I'm done with them. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[AdeptusAstartes]

The PLC wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

The PLC wrote...

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

The PLC wrote...

android654 wrote...

You buy something, you really don't like it, and you don't try to get your money back or sell it?

Sure, I might try and sell it, but there's no way I would go back to the store and ask for my money back. It makes no sense!

Why doesn't it? If the product doesn't give you the satisifaction you were told it would why would you not? Doing anything ELSE makes no sense to me.

Wow.. You played the ENTIRE GAME to reach the ending you didn't like. As many other have said, that's like telling the waitress at a resturant you want your money back, after you've eaten the entire meal! It makes no damn sense. 

 
Look at the edit I made apparently in the time that you were responding to this to elaborate on my point.

Dude you can't compare a car with a videogame. The game works fine. It's not like it stopped loading the disc, or the sound disappeared after a few days. I don't know what planet you live on, because your argument makes no sense.

The argument was an attempt to illustrate that sometimes you can't make a final judgement call on whether a product is worth it or not until you've used it for a few days. In that context it makes sense.