201 réponses à ce sujet

[Kungpaoshizi]

Allistair says "Why did you choose the inferrior sex, I like men."

[Rhys Cordelle]

Curlain wrote...

Yeah, Alistair is better as a blood-brother then a significant other it seems, my Dalish elf warrior told him Ferelden needed him as king or something similar and took the death blow (never thought he'd find another blood-bro to replace Tamlen (sp?) and certianly not a human but there you go).

Though to be fair he (my character) was grief-stricken over Morrigan leaving him at Redcliffe so death seemed like a good alternative, as a Dalish elf he just couldn't get behind bringing back one of the 'Old Gods' who's worshippers (Tenvinter Imperium) who had destoryed the ancient elven homeland, enslaved us and taken our immortality etc. And he kinda hopped it would allow Morrigan to begin thinking for herself instead of just following Mommy's wishes (darn mothers-in-law, always interfering), she still never came to my funeral, how could you Morrgian!! -- ah, ahem, yeah, back to Alistair, darn fool right?

I love playing as a Dalish. It seems to colour my perspective of things more than any other origin.

[Svest]

Recidiva wrote...

The ultimate issue that comes down to it is - why is that true because I'm a girl?  Why can only men be martyrs?  Why not women?  It's either a deep truth about the nature of love or a sexist conceit and I'm not sure which and probably both and I'm still thinking about it.  But I'm also convinced my own husband would do the same and that in itself is disturbing, because then I'd be alone and angry.  Romantically tragic apparently suits me, but I'd prefer to be the one leaving a good looking corpse.  It's not that I don't appreciate the gesture, it's just that I appreciate it so much I want to do it myself.

I don't think its some deep truth or a sexist conceit (at least not an intentional one), I see it more as a missed opportunity by the writers.  There are infinite permutations of personalities and circumstances that can come together at the top of that tower and they simply missed one, a fairly important one at that.  They were absolutely correct that Alistair's character would never in a million years willingly sit back and allow the woman he loves to sacrifice herself.  They forgot to factor in what would happen if she was equally as stubborn.  I can guarantee it would take a lot more than a simple sucker punch to stop him.  That could lead to a very interesting and powerful scene.

If in the end the writers wanted Alistair to be the one to sacrifice himself in that situation that is fine.  Where they screwed up, at least in my opinion, was forcing the female PC to just stand there and accept it without the option to at least try to stop him.

[eschilde]

You can try to stop him, he just does it anyway..

[Taleroth]

Svest wrote...

If in the end the writers wanted Alistair to be the one to sacrifice himself in that situation that is fine.  Where they screwed up, at least in my opinion, was forcing the female PC to just stand there and accept it without the option to at least try to stop him.

Kind of an aside here, but this reminds me of something.  I dislike how in this game every decision has to be a conversation.  All endings should have been something along the lines of what you describe.  You see Alistair/Loghain running for the blade, the intention obvious, you get an option to try to stop them... and we get the ending.  But no, they have to stand around talking about it first.

The part about what you said that brings this up is that I can help but think that's why you can't stop Alistair if there's a romance, because they decided that you can't convince him in a conversation.

[Svest]

eschilde wrote...

You can try to stop him, he just does it anyway..

You can try to convince him not to do it, that's a whole lot different than physically trying to stop him.  At least from what I've seen there is no way to try to freeze him, or knock him out, or hamstring him, or something.  Even if you fail its very different than just standing there.

[Malaia]

You know what ticks me off the most? After I sacrificed myself because he was a jerkoff, he didn't even live miserably ever after mourning my loss until the end of his days!



WHY DIDN'T HE MOURN MY LOSS THE REST OF HIS DAYS?



He should suffer horribly for his lousy timing. I mean suffer like balls of fire enveloping his pp and hot pokers in the eyes kinda suffering.



I made him king because it was the only choice I had, it was Anora the known racist biotch or AListair... and I never made them marry so the guy that said that got it wrong.



I made him king and it was his duty to make me noble and marry me after he shoved roses in my face, professed love over and over, slept with me. He even had me feeling sorry for his poor noble self all sent to the chantry and his evil sister. HAH!



Since he can't be noble and do the right thing by me, proving to Ferelden that elves aren't second class citizens, he should be slowly chopped into little pieces and fed into the lava in Orzammar.



Or at least be hot pokered to death.



*fume*

[Ninjaphrog]

Malaia wrote...

And what? He gets to be a racist secretly? After all he told me about how being an elf made no difference!

OMG I broke me "!" button.

No no, dumping him (getting -37 approval) was so worth it! Sleeping with Zev, then topping the Loghan recruitment and Anora as queen... oh yes I feel much better now.

I think I'd only feel best if I could find him in that bar where he's drunk and kick him in the you know whats!

Ever heard that Vengeance is not the way?...

You and Morrigan must be sisters...and sten must be your father...and Alistair is actually a bastard son of your own who's the result of a fling you had with the neighboring elf boy in the Alienage when you were 16....you just forgot cause you were so epicly high on lyrium during delivery that you have NO memory of ever giving birth to a son....WOA WOOAAAAAA

[Varenus Luckmann]

Alistair rocks. Racism <3.

[Recidiva]

Svest wrote...

I don't think its some deep truth or a sexist conceit (at least not an intentional one), I see it more as a missed opportunity by the writers.  There are infinite permutations of personalities and circumstances that can come together at the top of that tower and they simply missed one, a fairly important one at that.  They were absolutely correct that Alistair's character would never in a million years willingly sit back and allow the woman he loves to sacrifice herself.  They forgot to factor in what would happen if she was equally as stubborn.  I can guarantee it would take a lot more than a simple sucker punch to stop him.  That could lead to a very interesting and powerful scene.

If in the end the writers wanted Alistair to be the one to sacrifice himself in that situation that is fine.  Where they screwed up, at least in my opinion, was forcing the female PC to just stand there and accept it without the option to at least try to stop him.

Well, at least for my husband, it's a deep and inexplicable truth why it's okay he's dead and I'm not.  That's a much thornier problem than a fictional lover, but hopefully we're not in that situation immediately and I'll know what to expect and I'll no doubt get that powerful scene.

But you nailed it right there, that's my disturbance in a nutshell.

[Recidiva]

Kind of an aside here, but this reminds me of something.  I dislike how in this game every decision has to be a conversation.  All endings should have been something along the lines of what you describe.  You see Alistair/Loghain running for the blade, the intention obvious, you get an option to try to stop them... and we get the ending.  But no, they have to stand around talking about it first.

The part about what you said that brings this up is that I can help but think that's why you can't stop Alistair if there's a romance, because they decided that you can't convince him in a conversation.

Yes, that does seriously ****** me off.

Why give me a tree of 17 different options all in various different orders, if I'm going to get the same exact response?  Why make me think, as a player, that I have a chance if I just navigate all of them?

I did...navigate all of them...by the way...with a chart...****s.  Just to make sure I wasn't missing anything other than more frustration.

[ReubenLiew]

Oh yes, that was a huge missed oppurtunity right there. Wish there was like a way you could smack him around the head before he runs out so your char could sacrifice herself instead.

That would be powerful stuff right there.

[Recidiva]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Oh yes, that was a huge missed oppurtunity right there. Wish there was like a way you could smack him around the head before he runs out so your char could sacrifice herself instead.
That would be powerful stuff right there.

And the game was smart enough and had been good to me all along so much, I expected one.  

I still demand a "brain Alistair and drag him behind a wall" patch.

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

Yes, that does seriously ****** me off.

Why give me a tree of 17 different options all in various different orders, if I'm going to get the same exact response?  Why make me think, as a player, that I have a chance if I just navigate all of them?

I did...navigate all of them...by the way...with a chart...****s.  Just to make sure I wasn't missing anything other than more frustration.

Maybe you have to do it in a specific order.  You should try it again, but backwards this time!

[Maria Caliban]

Mesecina wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yeah. You showed him you didn't care about his feelings and that you valued him more as a tactical asset than a lover or friend. And then he dumped you for the exact same reasons.

Shock.

But as an elf do you really want a daughter of someone who was selling elves off like cattle on the throne? And taking into account her daddy will always remain her one true hero.

It's possible to get a good outcome with Anora and the alienage (I did so) without sticking Alistiar on the throne. However, that's your elf's choice. I assume your elf doesn't like Anora and wants Alistiar on the throne. That doesn't change the fact that to put Alistiar on the throne, you have to disregard his feelings.

Disregarding his feelings for what you view as the good of the nation isn't bad, but then getting pissy because he disregards the PC's feelings for the good of the nation is hypocritical.

You reap what you sow with Alistiar.

So do you even have a choice even if we completely ignore what happens to City Elves with Anora in charge (as that's not something your PC could know in advance)?

Of course it's different if you're a dwarf because you have no moral or other obligation to human kingdom or elves for the matter.

Then again if you're human noble I don't think many would be willing to look past the fact Loghain was partially responsible for your family's demise and also we can assume human PC grew up with tales of Maric's awesomness and love affair for his blood that should not be wasted that easily...

I'm sorry, but the above is completely based on the idea that there's only a single way to play through an origin. My human noble PC could spare Loghian despite his actions. My dwarven noble is able to care about humans and elves, even if she sees them as inferior. My dalish elf will likely take the blood mage's offer in exchange for the life of the elven slaves.

The PC has a choice and they make it. There's no reason to get angry at Alistiar for making what is basically the same choice.

Actually, Alistiar is better than the PC in this regard. The PC has decided the course of his entire life. After he dumps the PC, the PC can do whatever she desires.

[AtreiyaN7]

Pfft, Alistair is far from a racist - he even makes an elf a councillor or something in one possible outcome. The problem is the likely inability to have an heir with you thing & the whole "this country won't accept a non-human female as queen" thing. Although I'm pretty sure the OP was mostly joking (I hope), the simple solution is to harden him & stay on as his mistress if you're non-human. That or you can make him happy by telling Anora you will support her as queen and keep him for yourself without having her in the picture, etc. etc.

[Bibdy]

...

Hell hath no fury, I suppose.

[Taleroth]

Alistair really doesn't strike me as intelligent or political minded enough to realize what people will and won't accept for their queen, regardless of how hard he is. Isn't hard Alistair supposed to be more out for what HE wants, anyway?

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

Maybe you have to do it in a specific order.  You should try it again, but backwards this time!

Oh, now you're just being cruel.

[Svest]

Recidiva wrote...

Well, at least for my husband, it's a deep and inexplicable truth why it's okay he's dead and I'm not.  That's a much thornier problem than a fictional lover, but hopefully we're not in that situation immediately and I'll know what to expect and I'll no doubt get that powerful scene.

But you nailed it right there, that's my disturbance in a nutshell.

Much as I'm sure its just as deep and inexplicable a truth to you why it would be okay reversed.  I can't speak for your husband since I don't know him, but I can understand what he is saying.  As a man I can more easily put myself in Alistair's shoes and see things from his point of view.  I know that there is no way in hell she is touching that sword while I draw breath, and I would be okay with what that meant.  Therefore, when I see Alistair in the end, what he does seems natural and "right" to me.    The only part that seemed wrong was giving the PC no option other than to just stand there and watch.

Edit:  To be perfectly honest, in my first playthrough (as a male mage) I almost left Alistair behind.  I was actually worried even just as my friend this kind of situation would come up and neither of us would be willing to let the other sacrifice himself.  I was afraid I would have to fight him for it and that he would kick my butt (I had spent the whole game making him virtually immune to magic so I could AoE on top of him).

Modifié par Svest, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:42 .

[cutieyum]

Malaia



Thank you for the post. It was highly entertaining to read. I agree with you. After the Landsmeet, I wanted the conversational option to tell him off. I just hope that Morrigan hurt him a little during their child-making session.

[Riona45]

Malaia wrote...
I made him king and it was his duty to make me noble and marry me after he shoved roses in my face, professed love over and over, slept with me. He even had me feeling sorry for his poor noble self all sent to the chantry and his evil sister. HAH!

Am I a bad person if I say that this post made me laugh?

I mean...well...you kinda make it sound like you never really liked him much in the first place...

And I still don't understand the point of dying just to spite someone.

Modifié par Riona45, 01 décembre 2009 - 03:02 .

[Riona45]

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's possible to get a good outcome with Anora and the alienage (I did so) without sticking Alistiar on the throne.

You've piqued my interest.  How did you do it?

I'm curious because I'm constantly hearing about how Anora is bad for the elves.

[RunCDFirst]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's possible to get a good outcome with Anora and the alienage (I did so) without sticking Alistiar on the throne. However, that's your elf's choice. I assume your elf doesn't like Anora and wants Alistiar on the throne. That doesn't change the fact that to put Alistiar on the throne, you have to disregard his feelings.

Is the good ending where they threaten to revolt but Anora manages to talk them down even though there's still lingering resentment and turmoil? Or does it get better than that?

[Riona45]

cutieyum wrote...
I just hope that Morrigan hurt him a little during their child-making session.

See, I don't get this either.   Your characters are coming off as much, much worse than you say Alistair is.