594 réponses à ce sujet

[pjotroos]

Eterna5 wrote...

So is this false advertising a new angle you guys are trying to exploit as validation for your cause or something?

Seems like you guys come up with a new one every week.

Nah, it was "not getting what was promised" from day one. It just so happens we were promised a fitting ending to the trilogy and got anything but.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

Look at that comprehensive list of utter lies Bioware told us. How can they not understand why people don't like their precious “artistic” ending?  I didn't realise it was art to put plot-holes the size of Europe into your story so people have “lots of speculation”.

Speculation around intelligent omissions is fine; but deliberate plot-holes that have no place in logic and no hidden secrets is just cheap.

Every PR post in the forums or website has conveniently ignored all these promises made over the last few months.. How can they say these things as recently as 2 months ago considering the ending we actually got?

How they can "address" the fans with "humility" when they've lied so much in the past. I say keep this thread at the top of the forums permanently with a simple 5 word reply:

Please answer these lies Bioware!

Don't put anything else in your post; no discussion to weaken the focus of the thread (which is for Bioware to answer the op's post)

so...

Please answer these lies Bioware!

[iorveth1271]

Good post, +1!

[JohnnyG]

Eterna5 wrote...

So is this false advertising a new angle you guys are trying to exploit as validation for your cause or something?

Seems like you guys come up with a new one every week.

How are we exploiting anything?  I didn't make these statements.  I didn't ask the fans to give their feedback. I am only doing what Dr. Ray Muzyka asked for.  He wanted to know what he could do to fix the game?  Making good on their promises seems like a good place to start.

[Eterna]

pjotroos wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

So is this false advertising a new angle you guys are trying to exploit as validation for your cause or something?

Seems like you guys come up with a new one every week.

Nah, it was "not getting what was promised" from day one. It just so happens we were promised a fitting ending to the trilogy and got anything but.

Yeah but, promising something isn't the same as false advertisement.  Maybe if it were to say on the box "The Rachni quuen has a huge effect!" you'd have a case. But believing everything developers say will make it into the game is unrealistic and an error on your part. 

[Niemack Saarinen]

great post OP.

[jspiess]

plardman wrote...

This is my favorite:
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

This is the standout of the crowd for sure. Did nobody raise their hand asking, "Are you sure this ending is the BEST ending we can make?"

[Johnnycide]

Sad that this is actually being discussed in law school.

[Zaknaberrnon]

jspiess wrote...

plardman wrote...

This is my favorite:
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

This is the standout of the crowd for sure. Did nobody raise their hand asking, "Are you sure this ending is the BEST ending we can make?"

my thoughts exactly

[JohnnyG]

Eterna5 wrote...

pjotroos wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

So is this false advertising a new angle you guys are trying to exploit as validation for your cause or something?

Seems like you guys come up with a new one every week.

Nah, it was "not getting what was promised" from day one. It just so happens we were promised a fitting ending to the trilogy and got anything but.

Yeah but, promising something isn't the same as false advertisement.  Maybe if it were to say on the box "The Rachni quuen has a huge effect!" you'd have a case. But believing everything developers say will make it into the game is unrealistic and an error on your part. 

From dictionary.com...

[ad-ver-tahy-zing] noun
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid  announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.

So what they said was advertising?  Yes.  Was what they said true?  No?  That makes it false, does it not?  Thus...

False Advertising

Modifié par JohnnyG, 21 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[Zing Freelancer]

Blame EA, they had the final say.

[the red boon]

I agree OP
All I wanted was bioware to fix the endings to what they said they would be.

[Eterna]

JohnnyG wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

pjotroos wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

So is this false advertising a new angle you guys are trying to exploit as validation for your cause or something?

Seems like you guys come up with a new one every week.

Nah, it was "not getting what was promised" from day one. It just so happens we were promised a fitting ending to the trilogy and got anything but.

Yeah but, promising something isn't the same as false advertisement.  Maybe if it were to say on the box "The Rachni quuen has a huge effect!" you'd have a case. But believing everything developers say will make it into the game is unrealistic and an error on your part. 

From dictionary.com...

[ad-ver-tahy-zing] noun
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid  announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.

So what they said was advertising?  Yes.  Was what they said true?  No?  That makes it false, does it not?  Thus...

False Advertising

 Blizzard was going to add a system called Path of the Titans into cataclysm and they never did. Nobody claimed flase advertising. A lot can change over the course of development, quoting something Bioware said months before the game released is irrelevant because plans can change. 

 Interviews are not applicable to false advetisement because thy center around current ideas and do not reflect the finished product. 

[pjotroos]

Eterna5 wrote...
Yeah but, promising something isn't the same as false advertisement.  Maybe if it were to say on the box "The Rachni quuen has a huge effect!" you'd have a case. But believing everything developers say will make it into the game is unrealistic and an error on your part.

Believing someone you respected up until this point will hold up to their promises is an error? I'm sorry, but if you think there's nothing wrong with people promising anything they like and doing the exact opposite, I just don't think we can even transmit on the same wavelength.

[Zomglaser27]

Great post. Thank you for compiling all those quotes and promises they didn't live up to. This especially makes me mad

Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all
the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get
all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different
way of playing"

It is impossible to get 4000 EFFECTIVE military strength on single player alone. There's a thread that combed through the code and counted every war asset possible to see it was plausible, but there are simply not enough available assets. Now I don't dislike multiplayer, I just have no access to it. I'm happy for you if you enjoyed it, I would just like the chance to get that "deep breath" scene without doing multiplayer  -  as it was promised.

Modifié par Zomglaser27, 21 mars 2012 - 11:46 .

[Eterna]

pjotroos wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Yeah but, promising something isn't the same as false advertisement.  Maybe if it were to say on the box "The Rachni quuen has a huge effect!" you'd have a case. But believing everything developers say will make it into the game is unrealistic and an error on your part.

Believing someone you respected up until this point will hold up to their promises is an error? I'm sorry, but if you think there's nothing wrong with people promising anything they like and doing the exact opposite, I just don't think we can even transmit on the same wavelength.

 No, it's an error to assume everything Bioware said would make it to the final product. 

[MintyCool]

It's all falling apart: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213

[pjotroos]

Eterna5 wrote...

 No, it's an error to assume everything Bioware said would make it to the final product.

I didn't. There are some minor things that surely fell through. The very varied, wildly different endings were not just some feature, though. They were major selling point. The many stories of commander Shepard is what always distinguished their franchise from all the others. To find out it gets homogenised in the end is not a minor detail, like some glyphs in World of Warcraft. It's more like buying Need For Speed game and finding out there are no cars.

Modifié par pjotroos, 21 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[TudorWolf]

Eterna5 wrote...

 No, it's an error to assume everything Bioware said would make it to the final product. 

Expecting everything a dev promises to be included is indeed foolish, and I imagine few would believe everything they say.

But, Bioware "promised" an awful lot that wasn't included, and in some cases what was included is something they specifically said wouldn't be the case. See: "it won't be like choose A, B, C" and "it won't be like LOST" for examples. That's what bothers people, and imo, rightfully so

[pjotroos]

MintyCool wrote...

It's all falling apart: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213

Moderators were very clear about not trolling. This goes for both sides of the discussion, not just ours.

[JohnnyG]

Eterna5 wrote...

Blizzard was going to add a system called Path of the Titans into cataclysm and they never did. Nobody claimed flase advertising. A lot can change over the course of development, quoting something Bioware said months before the game released is irrelevant because plans can change. 

 Interviews are not applicable to false advetisement because thy center around current ideas and do not reflect the finished product. 

All the one below I we know for certain were said after the game went gold.  So yes, these statements were meant to reflect the finished product.  There are more, but I just grabbed a few of them to prove my point.  Though, it doesn't seem like you are willing to listen.  Your choice, of course.

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

2/28/12

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”

2/2/12

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

3/2/12

[pomrink]

MintyCool wrote...



It's all falling apart: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213

You're pretty militant about this

[cobnut]

pjotroos wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 No, it's an error to assume everything Bioware said would make it to the final product.

I didn't. There are some minor things that surely fell through. The very varied, wildly different endings were not just some feature, though. They were major selling point. The many stories of commander Shepard is what always distinguished their franchise from all the others. To find out it gets homogenised in the end is not a minor detail, like some glyphs in World of Warcraft. It's more like buying Need For Speed game and finding out there are no cars.

this exactly.

[Darthlawsuit]

JohnnyG wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Blizzard was going to add a system called Path of the Titans into cataclysm and they never did. Nobody claimed flase advertising. A lot can change over the course of development, quoting something Bioware said months before the game released is irrelevant because plans can change. 

 Interviews are not applicable to false advetisement because thy center around current ideas and do not reflect the finished product. 

All the one below I we know for certain were said after the game went gold.  So yes, these statements were meant to reflect the finished product.  There are more, but I just grabbed a few of them to prove my point.  Though, it doesn't seem like you are willing to listen.  Your choice, of course.

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

2/28/12

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”

2/2/12

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

3/2/12

Production of CD's can begin a month or two before the game is released. So yeah it was already done.

[Reaper511]

Original post here is a great example of where the frustration from fans comes from and a great example of civil discourse on the matter.

Truly, well said. I only hope that media outlets who are trashing on the retake movement will stop ignoring this aspect of the problem. Expectations were set, and the ending didn't really reflect them.

I hope everybody, whether they loved or hated the ending as it sits now, can agree that those quotes don't match with the ending we got, and the ending we got doesn't match with the precedent set by the entire series up-to-then in terms of the varied outcomes and seeing the impact of your choices and so on.

Unless of course the "waking up" shot after the destroy ending is our clue that this was indoctrination (and what else COULD it be). In which case Bioware's only FAULT here is that they didn't TELL US after the credits: "gotcha! This was indoctrination, stay tuned for the thrilling conclusion". Had they done that much.,. I'd be fine.