594 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

I agree, if they would just live up to the claims that they made about the game, all would be well (relatively speaking).

[agathokakological]

+1

Hit the nail on the head, OP.

[Apatche69]

Very good. BUMP

[proffbeer]

Great post. shameless bump for it. HOLD THE LINE!

[Nimrodell]

Ah, maybe they'll learn something good after this - customers are not sheep and one can't trim them without consequences. I also hope they'll stop presenting their intentions as l'art pour l'art and admit this is l'art pour d'argent. The second they had pre-order category and community feedback thing, that instantly they deprived themselves willingly from artistic freedoms. Many artists didn't even get to live that long and see their work appreciated and actually bringing huge sums of money, and still they kept true to their art and vision no matter poverty. Since Mass Effect is business in the first place, something that actually puts food on the table and not some new artistic genre, BW should treat this backlash as such and learn from it. And if this is new artistic genre indeed, with intent of proclaiming new visions and philosophy, new sets of artistic rules then they should've approached it differently and stand their ground now accepting the consequences for defending it - meaning, loss of those who saw this as commodity and loss of money.

[KeldorKatarn]

Spread the word about this. Show this post to everyone who says we're whining or talk abour artistic integrity.

Bioware lied in our face, more than any company ever before. And we want an explanation and an appology.

[NotSoElite]

Brilliant job OP.

For me this has always been the core reason so many of us are up in arms over the ending.

I'm glad someone has done such a thorough job with a thread specifically about all the promises that Bioware have made to us about how this trilogy we've invested so much into would conclude.

I challenege all those who have used the whole "artist is always right" to take a look at the OP's post, and explain how we are all wrong to be so bitterly disappointed with what has happened.

[Shloader]

I'd love to see Casey Hudson tell us how the endings are anything but an A, B, C scenario. Oh sure, you could say the entire game is in itself an ending. However that idea falls flat when you realize the purpose of the core game play is to contribute to the ending, not necessarily be the ending. Not provide a 'Lost' ending? Never watched Lost so I'm sure I missed the reference but the Normandy sure looks Lost to me. Lets not forget they're abandoning ideas of being Canon for the endings to create freedom to branch out wildly. Well I can't give praise there for a job well done in that respect.

It's been suggested that we shouldn't be digging to find plot holes. Such a notion is absurd. We didn't have to dig for them; they were never planted in firm ground. Another suggestion is that we need to apply philosophy to make meaning of the endings. Another idea that is completely asinine. Mass Effect 1 & 2 endings certainly never needed a college education or capability of higher level thinking to comprehend. Number 3's ending is completely pretentious. Provoking thought, debate, and imagination is a good result for any ending. Absolutely requiring it on the part of the player (or reader), especially in light of what has been said by Hudson as to what the endings will be, is more than a little insulting. If Mass Effect 3 were akin to a painting, the brush work got a little lazy at the end.

Good job OP. This, above all, puts a point on what I and a lot of others feel should be the outcome of this. We're not asking anyone to compromise their artistic vision. Quite the contrary. It's not like we're asking writers to take a new path and scrub prior work. Statements and claims made are their saving grace here. ME3's ending is simply an unfinished work. What would constitute completion? Making truth out of prior quotes, statements, and promises. Nothing more. Nothing less. What you've claimed leading up to release is your yard stick for developement milestones now.

Along with a lot of less vocal contributors to the forum I'm going to take a wait and see approach with this through April. I feel I got off on the wrong foot in these forums a year ago. See about a year ago ME2 for 360 was briefly available as a game on demand. I guess that was a mistake as it wasn't a month later. I Almost bought it but I didn't know if a Cerberus code was included. I asked. Recieved no response. I feel this thread will get about the same from any of the PR people and will certainly be avoided by non-PR people. It'd be nice to be wrong. If, however, at the end of April there is no statement, at least, that past claims and promises will be made true I will turn in my Collectors edition of ME3 in to Gamestop, along with 1 and 2, for credit toward my Assassin's Creed 3 pre-order (Lucy's death may have pissed me off but it wasn't bad story telling). I've got just enough faith left in Bioware that I'd believe them if they said it today as it was a truely exceptional ride through 99.9% of the Mass Effect Trilogy. But a bad end is a bad end and I feel like It was all for ashes. This I feel two weeks later.

Modifié par Shloader, 22 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[blackfx]

The layered endings were based on how well you played and how much you cared about characters. Thus not doing something in one game actually determined an ending in the 3rd (Although my idea of a great game lasts for hundreds of hours.). It was a very long ending to Mass Effect in ME3. The whole damn game was an ending. While some introductions were made the entire game concluded. The final outcome was but the icing on the cake. Granted, if a developer actually came out and said that elements of the game were blatantly forgotten, thats a pretty large catastrophe. The promises were mostly true mixed in with a few lies. The war assets were a conclusion to a game running out of EA time. Someone wanted that game out before it was truelly concluded. They should increase their productivity levels and create more interludes, not DLC but full games.

I didn't feel like the whole damn thing was a sham. If anything, I felt like they truelly put their every effort into their game, as is with most EA games and certainly BioWare based. The deadline crept up and they didn't have the willpower, manpower, funds, or time to accomplish the fantastical dreams we the fan base wanted.

In that end, they did a damn good job but they SHOULD have invested in their product lifetime, extendability, and franchise. The game (with Shepard) should have evolved multi-dimensionally instead of grinding to a absolute halt. The potential was smashed in the face. If the artist is tired then shift them around but keep the lifeblood of BioWare going.. and fast!

Modifié par blackfx, 22 mars 2012 - 08:17 .

[Skybree]

Im not Marauder Sheilds but i still approve of this thread ...

Kia Kaha !! - hold the line

[thebigbad1013]

I honestly don't see how anyone could read through this and not admit that there are considerable differences between this and how the game actually turned out. It would be nice if they would comment on this. Good post.

[SouperTrooper]

I'd suggest Dr.Muzyka take a look at the "fake" post by the frustrated alleged bioware writer because its filled with some stellar ideas about how to do the ending right. In fact why don't guys just find out who really wrote that and hire the guy...if he already doesn't work for you, he really should.

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

Redo the whole damn endgame, make it right, make me happy and I'll probably pay for it like a sucker and come back for more next game. Oh and please make sure Maurader Sheilds is part of the action. ME3 would not be the same without him.

[Necroscope]

Well said OP.

[SirRominov]

Great job.

[darkshadow136]

Well said OP. There were a lot of promises and concrete features the game was listed to have, and none of them were delivered. This thread should be a sticky to the top, so the people that like the ending can see what we are talking about.

[SyyRaaaN]

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Seriously... This lie is from 2012-02-28... Why? I mean... why? Somehow i can accept Casey Hudson trying to hype the game as much as possible... But this one...? Why?

It has exactly 0 impact on the game... Why would they say that? Its not like it was the selling point of this game...

[ek5000]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Seriously... This lie is from 2012-02-28... Why? I mean... why? Somehow i can accept Casey Hudson trying to hype the game as much as possible... But this one...? Why?

It has exactly 0 impact on the game... Why would they say that? Its not like it was the selling point of this game...

It wasn't even hype, hype is when you exaggerate the quality of your work without getting into details - all movie trailers are pure hype:

"The funniest action buddy comedy of the century!"

If you then start talking specifically about the things that make it 'the funniest action buddy comedy of the century', it becomes advertisement:

"It's so funny because it has clowns and pies in it!"

 

So, if the movie then doesn't actually have clowns (or even pies) in it, potential viewers have been grossly misslead, and as paying customers, they have the right to call out the film makers.

Obviously, anything said on pre release interviews could change, anyone who's bought more than a few games knows this - but when you start making "promises" like BioWare did, then they really should have told us before the release, that the final state of the game contradicts most of what has been told.

Modifié par ek5000, 22 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[superduperkoala]

I can foresee an intense PAX East this year.
No matter how you feel about BioWare, please be respectful and civil!

[Kastien]

Well done, sir. Let's keep making posts like these to explain clearly and calmly why we're so disappointed, and what needs to be done to fix the situation.

[lil_lene]

Wow I remember some of these quotes. But it is good to see some that I missed. Bioware dropped the ball with their promises. As bad as the ending is and needs to be fixed, it is good to point out it is more than just that. It is that we were mislead on several occasions.

[Kurokenshi]

JohnnyG wrote...

Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,

Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3.  In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).

Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released.  As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3.  Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.

If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake?  I didn't think so.  So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.

So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem.  I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote.  Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.

We want to believe in you again, BioWare.  Please do the right thing and don't let us down.

Great post, I most definitely could not have said it better!

Hold the line!

[bahamutomega]

these quotes are why i bought the game. hell, when i was at NYCC in October, i was told the same things! didn't even need to read or watch them!

hold the line

[Delivery]

Well said! Thank you for this OP.

[RockSW]

i never saw that rachni quote, WTF.

i wanted a zerg swarm, not a journal update saying the rachni sent some drones to do some crucuble welding.

[KeldorKatarn]

RockSW wrote...

i never saw that rachni quote, WTF.

i wanted a zerg swarm, not a journal update saying the rachni sent some drones to do some crucuble welding.

This!