You forgot the review with Walters where he says that game won't have magic in space when asked about plausibility of science in Mass Effect.
BioWare, you wanted commentary on how to fix this, start with the FALSE ADVERTISING!
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JohnnyG
, mars 21 2012 08:27
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#52
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:07
juliannacorn
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Thank you for posting this! This is why I get so angry at every PR release Bioware comes out with.
All they say over and over is that we "core" fans are upset by the "lack of closure" without addressing the blatant false advertisement or the incongruities.
All they say over and over is that we "core" fans are upset by the "lack of closure" without addressing the blatant false advertisement or the incongruities.
#53
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:08
Tyrzun
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Nicely done.
He won't admit that. The reason he avoids it is I'm sure it's a legal issue. False advertising.
He won't admit that. The reason he avoids it is I'm sure it's a legal issue. False advertising.
#54
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:08
JayTheWolf
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Bumping this. It needs to stay at the top.
#55
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:08
Sparse
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If they actually admit false advertising they risk getting in a hell of a lot of legal trouble.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful in future.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful in future.
#56
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:09
JohnnyG
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Provide me a link and I will add it to my original post.IhateEA-Mask wrote...
You forgot the review with Walters where he says that game won't have magic in space when asked about plausibility of science in Mass Effect.
#57
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:09
Smiley556
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Perfect post OP. False promises is exactly what my problem with the game is.
#58
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:10
Gterror2
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Agreed, this is my main problem with all this ending B.S,you promised all of these "choices matter and variety of different endings and closure", but in the end you simply lied all about those things.I mean what happened with BW, is it just EA trying to push it's luck or BW has serious 360 degree turn from good to worse, i mean Baldur's Gate series was one of the best games ive played and DA:O was awesome, but now....it's all about money isn't it.
#59
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:10
Iwillbeback
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IhateEA-Mask wrote...
You forgot the review with Walters where he says that game won't have magic in space when asked about plausibility of science in Mass Effect.
Its like they did the exact opposite, on purpose.
#60
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:10
Leem_0001
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Great post OP.
If Bioware is truely listening to it's fans, then they should read the first post in the thread.
If they are still 'genuinely suprised' by the negativity....I don't know how to finish that. There is not way they could still be surprised.
If Bioware is truely listening to it's fans, then they should read the first post in the thread.
If they are still 'genuinely suprised' by the negativity....I don't know how to finish that. There is not way they could still be surprised.
#61
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:11
plardman
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We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
#63
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:13
Blarghonk
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plardman wrote...
Blarghonk wrote...
They could start by at least admitting the broken promises but they are most likely scared of the Big Men at EA who could care less since they got their money alreadyElite Midget wrote...
...Blarghonk wrote...
....
Unfortunately nothing will come from admitting it, other then lawsuits. It happend and should be addressed. Specially if they want more money, and I would imagine they do.
To bad then, because that doesn't cut it for me. In the future I wont be able to trust them, and certainly wont be pre-ordering or buying a new game from them until after reading user reviews. Obviously they care more about artistic integrity then the integrity of their business.Sparse wrote...
If they actually admit false advertising they risk getting in a hell of a lot of legal trouble.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the
accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful
in future.
Modifié par Blarghonk, 21 mars 2012 - 09:15 .
#64
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:13
Militarized
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plardman wrote...
We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
[img]http://voiceofdetroit.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Execute-corporations1.jpg[/img]
Modifié par Militarized, 21 mars 2012 - 09:14 .
#65
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
JohnnyG
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[quote]JohnnyG wrote...
Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,
Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3. In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).
Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released. As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3. Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.
If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake? I didn't think so. So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.
So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem. I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote. Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.
We want to believe in you again, BioWare. Please do the right thing and don't let us down.
[quote]Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html
"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/
“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”[/quote]
[/quote]
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I got these great quotes from another post that was done several days ago. They just came back to mind after reading Ray's blog.
Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,
Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3. In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).
Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released. As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3. Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.
If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake? I didn't think so. So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.
So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem. I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote. Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.
We want to believe in you again, BioWare. Please do the right thing and don't let us down.
[quote]Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html
"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/
“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”[/quote]
[/quote]
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I got these great quotes from another post that was done several days ago. They just came back to mind after reading Ray's blog.
#66
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
Rune-Chan
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To those who don't get why we hate the endings, please understand that this is it, not the lack of happy rainbows, not that we can't let go, but because the quotations in the opening post are almost universally false, they are all from people working on the game, and they were all said long enough ago that they were still working on it at the time.
Please keep this topic near the front, it has no complaining, just the bare facts of why the fans are so upset.
Please keep this topic near the front, it has no complaining, just the bare facts of why the fans are so upset.
Modifié par Machines Are Us, 21 mars 2012 - 09:15 .
#67
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
zephyr2025
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Thank you. This has always been my number one problem with the ending
#68
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
Silveralen
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Keep the thread alive and on the front page. Everyone needs to see it.
#69
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
Udalango
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The worst part is ME3 was awesome up until then. Yes their were gripes but minor. The endings killed all desire I had to play Mass effect.
I tried to re go through the second one because it was awesome and I cant even make it to Horizon before im just like "Whats the point"
I tried to re go through the second one because it was awesome and I cant even make it to Horizon before im just like "Whats the point"
#70
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:14
avmf8
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plardman wrote...
We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
I really hope that was sarcasm.
#72
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:15
Militarized
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They don't have to "admit" to false advertising, just PR double speak it that they didn't do the best they could for the ending but they will try to fix into the image they said it was originally going to be in?
I mean.... just look at those quotes! >.<
I mean.... just look at those quotes! >.<
#73
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:16
plardman
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avmf8 wrote...
plardman wrote...
We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
I really hope that was sarcasm.
This one thinks it was too...
#74
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:16
Sparse
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Blarghonk wrote...
Sparse wrote...
If they actually admit false advertising they risk getting in a hell of a lot of legal trouble.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful in future.
To bad then, because that doesn't cut it for me. In the future I wont be able to trust them, and certainly wont be pre-ordering or buying a new game from them until after reading user reviews. Obviously they care more about artistic integrity then the integrity of their business.
Opening yourself to legal action or action from a regulatory authority is not good business sense either. There isn't much they can do about this aspect apart from ensuring it doesn't happen again.
Modifié par Sparse, 21 mars 2012 - 09:16 .
