Excellent OP. Before any DLC how about they start by addressing those.
BioWare, you wanted commentary on how to fix this, start with the FALSE ADVERTISING!
Débuté par
JohnnyG
, mars 21 2012 08:27
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#77
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:17
plardman
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[quote]Sparse wrote...
[quote]Blarghonk wrote...
[quote]Sparse wrote...
If they actually admit false advertising they risk getting in a hell of a lot of legal trouble.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful in future.
[/quote]
[quote]
To bad then, because that doesn't cut it for me. In the future I wont be able to trust them, and certainly wont be pre-ordering or buying a new game from them until after reading user reviews. Obviously they care more about artistic integrity then the integrity of their business.
[/quote]
Opening yourself to legal action or action from a regulatory authority is not good business sense either. There isn't much they can do about this aspect apart from ensuring it doesn't happen again.
[/quote]
We just need a whistle blower is all...
[quote]Blarghonk wrote...
[quote]Sparse wrote...
If they actually admit false advertising they risk getting in a hell of a lot of legal trouble.
I suspect that they are very well aware of opinions regarding the accuracy of their pre-release statements and will be being more careful in future.
[/quote]
[quote]
To bad then, because that doesn't cut it for me. In the future I wont be able to trust them, and certainly wont be pre-ordering or buying a new game from them until after reading user reviews. Obviously they care more about artistic integrity then the integrity of their business.
[/quote]
Opening yourself to legal action or action from a regulatory authority is not good business sense either. There isn't much they can do about this aspect apart from ensuring it doesn't happen again.
[/quote]
We just need a whistle blower is all...
#78
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:17
Iwillbeback
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plardman wrote...
avmf8 wrote...
plardman wrote...
We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
I really hope that was sarcasm.
This one thinks it was too...
No corporations are classified as people.
#79
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:19
chrrue_
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Blarghonk wrote...
Exactly what they should address, and exactly what my problem with the game is. Sure I have wishes about the LI and Squadmates, but the promises they made for my money need to be held. That is all we are asking.
This
#80
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:19
Joykilledme
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[quote]JohnnyG wrote...
Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,
Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3. In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).
Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released. As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3. Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.
If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake? I didn't think so. So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.
So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem. I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote. Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.
We want to believe in you again, BioWare. Please do the right thing and don't let us down.
[quote]Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html
"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/
“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”[/quote]
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I got these great quotes from
another post that was done several days ago. They just came back to
mind after reading Ray's blog.
[/quote]
This this this this this! Thank you so much for posting this! This is one of the biggest issues I have with Bioware currently
Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka,
Per your request, I am providing constructive criticism for BioWare regarding Mass Effect 3. In my mind, the biggest issue is the breaking of trust between your company and its consumers (which is manifested in many ways, the ending merely being the most poignant).
Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released. As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3. Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.
If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake? I didn't think so. So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them.
So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem. I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote. Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.
We want to believe in you again, BioWare. Please do the right thing and don't let us down.
[quote]Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”[/quote]
[quote]Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.[/quote]
[quote]Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html
"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/
“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”[/quote]
[quote]Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2
“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”[/quote]
Edit: Just wanted to point out that I got these great quotes from
another post that was done several days ago. They just came back to
mind after reading Ray's blog.
[/quote]
This this this this this! Thank you so much for posting this! This is one of the biggest issues I have with Bioware currently
#81
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:20
Darthlawsuit
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- 633 messages
I buy games that are buggy beyond belief and are nearly unplayable at 1.0. However they did deliver everything they promised or they told us that they were unable to complete a component in time for release. They promise they will fix it with the next patch and they do. I hold no grudges against them.Blarghonk wrote...
Exactly what they should address, and exactly what my problem with the game is. Sure I have wishes about the LI and Squadmates, but the promises they made for my money need to be held. That is all we are asking.
You have flat out lied and not attempted to fix the problem. You would end 75% of the problems if you just came out and told us everything instead of doing PR manipulations and half promises. Tell us exactly what happened and why you did it. However there is still the issue of us buying the game on the promises of "16 unique endings". If you promise it you must deliver it.
#82
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:20
plardman
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Iwillbeback wrote...
plardman wrote...
avmf8 wrote...
plardman wrote...
We need too be nice because corporations are people too...
I really hope that was sarcasm.
This one thinks it was too...
No corporations are classified as people.
Shhhhhhh!
#84
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:24
Comguard2
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- 374 messages
Don't get it why they made all these promises. That just fuels the rage.
#85
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:25
Reptilian Rob
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I'm seeing this through until they can see the firestorm a thousand miles away.
#86
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:25
PaulSX
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those are not advertisements.
Modifié par suntzuxi, 21 mars 2012 - 09:25 .
#87
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:25
Udalango
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Does it ever say the Protheans had Synthetics?
I know Javik says one species did during his cycle but that the Protheans killed the synthetics. So why did the Reapers need to come.
Harbinger: Hey Vent brat this cycle has no synthetics
Vent Brat: Oh well kill em anyway
I know Javik says one species did during his cycle but that the Protheans killed the synthetics. So why did the Reapers need to come.
Harbinger: Hey Vent brat this cycle has no synthetics
Vent Brat: Oh well kill em anyway
#88
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:27
plardman
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suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
uh oh here we go...
#89
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:27
Darthlawsuit
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One species of the Protheans had a lot of cybernetic implants. Eventually the cybernetic implants took control of their bodies and started a war. So it was synthetics in control of an organic.Udalango wrote...
Does it ever say the Protheans had Synthetics?
I know Javik says one species did during his cycle but that the Protheans killed the synthetics. So why did the Reapers need to come.
Harbinger: Hey Vent brat this cycle has no synthetics
Vent Brat: Oh well kill em anyway
#90
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:29
Blarghonk
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- 170 messages
Darthlawsuit wrote...
I buy games that are buggy beyond belief and are nearly unplayable at 1.0. However they did deliver everything they promised or they told us that they were unable to complete a component in time for release. They promise they will fix it with the next patch and they do. I hold no grudges against them.Blarghonk wrote...
Exactly what they should address, and exactly what my problem with the game is. Sure I have wishes about the LI and Squadmates, but the promises they made for my money need to be held. That is all we are asking.
You have flat out lied and not attempted to fix the problem. You would end 75% of the problems if you just came out and told us everything instead of doing PR manipulations and half promises. Tell us exactly what happened and why you did it. However there is still the issue of us buying the game on the promises of "16 unique endings". If you promise it you must deliver it.
I hate that I can no longer trust them. They have released brilliant games, but I just can't overlook this.
#91
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:29
andresruiz
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Seeing all these false promises/statements made by Bioware just makes me more sad and mad and makes me realize why they haven't even touched the subject of these statements. They don't want everyone to know they basically lied in the fans faces.
#92
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:30
Silveralen
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suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
Your right. Bioware could have made Mass Effect 3 a drivng game as long as they never actually called it a shooter in the packaging or in an advertisment.
It may not be false advertising, bt it is still a lie, and it will cost them fans.
#93
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:31
Darthlawsuit
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Mass effect would be an interesting space simSilveralen wrote...
suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
Your right. Bioware could have made Mass Effect 3 a drivng game as long as they never actually called it a shooter in the packaging or in an advertisment.
It may not be false advertising, bt it is still a lie, and it will cost them fans.
#94
Guest_MissNet_*
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:34
Guest_MissNet_*
Guest_MissNet_*
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- Guests
"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is."
"You as a player decide what your story is."
!
*I heard someone calls this a space magic, but bioware calls it an artistic integrity.*
"You as a player decide what your story is."
!
*I heard someone calls this a space magic, but bioware calls it an artistic integrity.*
#95
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:34
Sharkey1337
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Exactly, OP! If anything needs to be said at PAX, it's bringing up these numerous quotations of a promised ending that was turned completely on its head and we were given the exact opposite of what was said.
HOLD THE LINE!
HOLD THE LINE!
#96
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:34
plardman
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Darthlawsuit wrote...
Mass effect would be an interesting space simSilveralen wrote...
suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
Your right. Bioware could have made Mass Effect 3 a drivng game as long as they never actually called it a shooter in the packaging or in an advertisment.
It may not be false advertising, bt it is still a lie, and it will cost them fans.
Just curious but how is promoting a product on tv or in an article not advertising? Can I write a biography on Abe Lincoln then go on a show and say its a book on space magic?
#97
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:35
Udalango
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Bioware lost a lot more fans than it gained in this. Im sure EA thought multiplayer would bring in a lot of the internet players but it didnt. I have tons of friends who dont like RPGs and do shooters like COD that said they arent going to pay 60 bucks for a multiplayer that is secondary to a plot they care nothing for.
#98
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:35
JohnnyG
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From dictionary.com...suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
[ad-ver-tahy-zing] noun
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.
Even if they didn't pay to have their quotes published, they still are defined as advertising by the first part of the definition.
Modifié par JohnnyG, 21 mars 2012 - 09:36 .
#100
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 09:38
plardman
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JohnnyG wrote...
From dictionary.com...suntzuxi wrote...
those are not advertisements.
[ad-ver-tahy-zing] noun
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.
Even if they didn't pay to have their quotes published, they still are defined as advertising by the first part of the definition.
Agreed!
