46 réponses à ce sujet

[Midgetface]

Cross-class versatility and interactivity. This is the biggest issue.

I'm playing Warrior right now and I find myself micromanaging Morrigan a ton more simply because she can DO more stuff. 

With my Warrior, I'm a slow bulk of metal crawling towards the next target to autoattack it to death. I don't have Stamina to do **** - I can't use a single of my - uh - 5 abilities are they? And none of them really help me towards what I do - they all just do the same thing: hit something and maybe knock it down. 

As a Warrior - and in less a way a Rogue - you are trapped in whatever amount of weapons you want to wield.

You can't mix and match certain abilities - and even if you could, in the end, every different weapon specialization has a minuscule variation from one another.


But Mages -- that's a whole different story. You have a plethora of spells at your disposal and you can build your character about the utility you like the most. You could get a lot of CC, choose different forms of delivering damage, etc.

The best way to balance this would be putting only 4 talents in one tree per weapon spec, and then let the Warrior choose from many strikes and other Warriorly things such as dragoon jumps, whirlwind strikes, ram-charging, etc.

As the game is - it's not just the power that is tipped off the scales but the fun of the overall class.

[MR-9]

Mages used to be confined like Warriors in that there were incentives to ensure they stick to a single school of magic, but this was removed before the game actually launched. This is evidenced in some posts I've read combined with the progress bar above each school of magic. I'd suppose this is part of the ripple of that change.

[robertthebard]

The people that don't know how to build successful characters and come here complaining about another class?

[Loc'n'lol]

Take specializations and max them out, and eventually you'll get something that comes close to tier 1 spells...



Still, it's fun to launch a warcry with superiority and watch everyone fly away and then holy smite a group of enemy archers to stun them at long range...

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you lack stamina, then your Willpower is too low.

Warriors can be every bit as powerful as Mages in DAO. They just take careful planning. The main difference between Mages and Warriors is that Mages are easier to build and play. They're no more powerful; it's just easier to tap that power.

[Zealuu]

It's perfectly possible to build successful rogues and warriors - with the right builds they can both be DPS powerhouses - and for all you know the OP is quite capable of doing so. That, however, doesn't change the fact that controlling a mage currently offers a much more involved playstyle and further options for purposeful microing than the other classes.

[Midgetface]

robertthebard wrote...

The people that don't know how to build successful characters and come here complaining about another class?

I'm sorry, are you thick? Who the hell brought up power? I specifically said "ITS NOT THE POWER". Reading is tech.


Anyone can make a good Warrior of any kind. The problem is that it won't be a modicum as entertaining as making a Mage.

I do think the school restriction could have been the issue -- if it actually had been a bad call. It was a great idea to allow Mages to branch out and make fun combinations.

It was an error not allowing Warriors and to a lesser - but still significant - amount Rogues to branch out as well.

[SLPr0]

Mages just require Willpower and Magic.



Warriors vary depending on weapon specialization and some of those specializations require focus on more than two stats.



Also since the PC actually requires certain things like Coercion to function well, it requires focus on stats you wouldn't focus on with an NPC warrior, Alistair requires very little cunning, just enough to expand enough tactics slots, whereas the PC warrior requires enough of it to max out Coercion, taking away around 16 points of development from other stats which are important.



Warriors in general have to focus on Strength for damage, Dexterity for accuracy, Willpower for stamina management, and Constitution for HP, then you add in the weight of the PC cunning requirements for Coercion capabilities and you end up basically having a situation where it looks like mages are easier than warriors simply because they require less stat spread, even as a PC, than a warrior does...and can focus heavily on just two stats to max out their effectiveness as compared to 3 - 4 for a warrior, not including Cunning.

[F-C]

Midgetface wrote...
 I don't have Stamina to do ****

i pretty much stopped reading right there.

you are making the common mistake of most complainers and ignoring willpower.

you made him bad so he plays bad, the end.

[robertthebard]

Zealuu wrote...

It's perfectly possible to build successful rogues and warriors - with the right builds they can both be DPS powerhouses - and for all you know the OP is quite capable of doing so. That, however, doesn't change the fact that controlling a mage currently offers a much more involved playstyle and further options for purposeful microing than the other classes.

Actually, according to this, from the OP;

midgetface wrote...
With my Warrior, I'm a slow bulk of metal crawling towards the next target to autoattack it to death. I don't have Stamina to do ****

it's fairly obvious that this isn't the case.  If one knows how to build a char, then they won't have many stamina problems, barring really long fights.  The warrior in this little sentence probably can't maintain threat on the mobs either, resulting in it running even more chasing mobs that should be squarely engaged on it.

[Midgetface]

SLPr0 wrote...
...and can focus heavily on just two stats to max out their effectiveness as compared to 3 - 4 for a warrior, not including Cunning.

Very true as well, that's why the mods I'm making revolve mostly in decreasing the stat spread on Warriors. My next release will make CON convert into Stamina for Warriors and STR/DEX/CUN into Stamina for Rogues (very little for each point.)

[Midgetface]

F-C wrote...

Midgetface wrote...
 I don't have Stamina to do ****

i pretty much stopped reading right there.

you are making the common mistake of most complainers and ignoring willpower.

you made him bad so he plays bad, the end.

Do try tanking without Shield talents, while also having to increase Strength for wearing useful armor, and dipping some into Cunning to get Persuasion - oh and you need points in Constitution or you'll die on the first Cone of Cold/Fireball/etc. you get thrown your way. I'm just too dumb to realize I need points in Willpower, that must be it.

[F-C]

SLPr0 wrote...
the PC warrior requires enough of it to max out Coercion, taking away around 16 points of development .

umm no. you only need to spend a couple points on cunning really. you start out with 10-11 cunning depending on race and you get some boosts from playing the game.

Modifié par F-C, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:05 .

[robertthebard]

Midgetface wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

The people that don't know how to build successful characters and come here complaining about another class?

I'm sorry, are you thick? Who the hell brought up power? I specifically said "ITS NOT THE POWER". Reading is tech.


Anyone can make a good Warrior of any kind. The problem is that it won't be a modicum as entertaining as making a Mage.

I do think the school restriction could have been the issue -- if it actually had been a bad call. It was a great idea to allow Mages to branch out and make fun combinations.

It was an error not allowing Warriors and to a lesser - but still significant - amount Rogues to branch out as well.

While I have finished the game with a mage, I finished first with an Archer.  I found it both challenging and entertaining.  I have also run levels of the Ruins in the Brecilian forest w/out a mage, up to the final battle there.  The problem isn't mages, it's players.  There are already probably hundreds, if not thousands of topics just like this; "I have to work to build a good warrior, but I can make a nuker mage easy".  So, I ask you, what's wrong with working for a good character?  What constitutes that as being the "end-all" issue with this game?

BTW, I no where in my initial post brought up the word power.  I said Successful.  The fact that you automatically jump to power as a defence speaks volumes.

[SLPr0]

Course the PC also gets the stat boosts in the Fade and NPC's do not, so I suppose you could say they addressed that...sort of.

[Spaceweed10]

/yawn...

Wut?

[DalVel]

My dwarf berserker dual wielding axes is tanking just fine.



Maybe you simply need to play a mage? I played both as mage and warrior so far (just before the end of the game with warrior atm) and they were both equally entertaining but in different respects.

Warrior is a simple class. You put yourself in suit of massive armor, grab a big weapon, and barrel down on the enemy killing everything in your path. While mage skips around the edges of the battlefield dropping strategically placed fireballs.



In other words:

Warrior - simple

Mage - complicated



It's been this way in every single RPG, you should get used to it by now.

[Taleroth]

I thought my Warrior was more fun than my Mage, actually. My Mages tend to become one-trick healing/force fielding ponies, at least when I only have one. While my Sword and Shield Warrior was a knockdown, stunning, AoE knockdown, assaulting machine. And my new Rogue is a stunning, stealthing, trap setting, area slashing machine.

Modifié par Taleroth, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[FlatCat]

SLPr0 wrote...

Course the PC also gets the stat boosts in the Fade and NPC's do not, so I suppose you could say they addressed that...sort of.

The player doesn't know that when they start so what if they don't go there first as is there freedom too?

[Midgetface]

F-C wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...
the PC warrior requires enough of it to max out Coercion, taking away around 16 points of development .

umm no. you only need to spend a couple points on cunning really. you start out with 10-11 cunning depending on race and you get some boosts from playing the game.

As a Warrior Tank, I need every attribute all the time. Mages have much more freedom in this aspect, and in the leveling of their spells. 

Sure, I could, eventually, once I have enough Strength for the best armor and enough Dex for all my talents (and to dodge every attack) and the splash in Cunning and Constitution, I could also splash into Willpo-- have you still not realized this is BAD DESIGN?!

[rebel11983]

I understand the OP's point. I'm a Dual Wielding warrior and if I don't manage my abilities correctly I burn through Stamina like nobodies buisness, particularly in the earlier levels when it takes longer to bring down enemies. I learned to more closely manage and reserve my abilities, but I could understand how some people would find it annoying. Stamina would be better derived from the Strength or Constitution stat for Warriors and Rogues in my opinion.

[robertthebard]

FlatCat wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Course the PC also gets the stat boosts in the Fade and NPC's do not, so I suppose you could say they addressed that...sort of.

The player doesn't know that when they start so what if they don't go there first as is there freedom too?

So they'll never get them if they don't go there first?  For my warriors, I didn't rely on Persuasion anyway.  High strength leads to a better chance to intimidate anyway.  I can just see that 7' tall giant in the full plate armor going "Please don't beat us up", instead of "Do you really want to die that bad".

[F-C]

FlatCat wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Course the PC also gets the stat boosts in the Fade and NPC's do not, so I suppose you could say they addressed that...sort of.

The player doesn't know that when they start so what if they don't go there first as is there freedom too?

how high of coercion are you attempting to get at a low level?

i mean you can put 1 or 2 points in cunning and have rank 2 coercion.

considering you only get a skill point every 3 levels and you need to work on maxxing out combat training, i think this arguement is rather weak.

[robertthebard]

The whole topic is rather weak. I stand by my first response.

[Midgetface]

DalVel wrote...

It's been this way in every single RPG, you should get used to it by now.

Good argument.

BTW, I no where in my initial post brought up the word power.  I said Successful.  The fact that you automatically jump to power as a defence speaks volumes.

Haha, what the hell are you talking about? Speaks volumes about what? About how most people think that I'm talking about the strength of the overall character instead of the interactivity it brings? Yeah, it could really speak a lot about that. 
What the hell had success have to do with anything?

Modifié par Midgetface, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:15 .