52 réponses à ce sujet

[willsanders84]

I've never played Dragon Age, but have enjoyed immensely Bioware's Baldur's Gate II, and Black Isle's Planescape Torment. The RPG, for me, has to be by definition the most absorbing and enjoyable game genre there is.

In the RPG there is the potential to fulfill the widest range of human emotions. After finishing Planescape Torment, I knew I could never play it again. It was as much a period of my life as it was a computer game, and it changed me as a person, contributed to who I am today.

And so I watch with disappointment youtube demonstrations of what has been described as the rpg of the future. It seems to me to be a very good game, Dragon Age. The characters seem to have been well thought out, the stroyline engrossing, the inventory practical. Will I ever buy it? I don't know.

In a world of fast cars, widescreen televisions, sunglasses and sex, when I sit down infront of my computer I want to forget about all those things, and let myself slip gently into the sort of world described in japanese myth, in greek mythology, in a George Owell novel. I want to become part of a world that interests and excites me, that tests me intellectually and forces me to take responsibility for myself and for my surroundings. I want it to be fresh and new, and not to know what I'll find around the corner - a killer bunny rabbit or an agreeable ogre.

I think that perhaps what I'm trying to say is that game developers, as a result of the mass market, can't afford to create original artworks. I've seen so many Orcs and Goblins that if one delivered me a pizza I don't even think I'd realise. My idea of an RPG is a fantasy, and now that fantasy has almost become it's own genre I fear I may have to hang up my headphones, if not for good, for a very long time.

What frustrates me (did you guess I'm fairly easily frustrated?) is that there's so much potential in the computer game industry, but it seems that like everything else, it's become generic and diluted to the point that originality isn't clever, it's stupid. If you try to create something that can be truly described as a piece of art, you risk not making all that money. It's happened to music, television and art. It's happened in the last fifteen years, and it seems that since then creativity has just been treading water. It's a sin, and I hope that soon we all become so bored of someone's forced to take a risk and create something original and beautiful.

[Roxlimn]

Dragon Age is a LOT closer to a combination of Audio-Visual Novel and tactical RPG. I suggest you play it before you pass judgment on it. Having an open mind WHILE you're playing helps.

[Bonkz]

I can't totally disagree with your post. I guess its easy to relate parts of the lore with things you have seen and read in past from movies and books but as a whole i think it does create a unique image.

It may not be original in every part but it does give you a feeling that you are playing something a bit different than what you've played so far.

I suggest you give it a try and see for yourself

[Jordi B]

So what about what you saw (on youtube?) of Dragon Age makes you concerned that this is not a proper RPG you would like?

[Spaceweed10]

Cool story, bro.



Seriously, I can identify with a lot of what you say about the gaming industry. Let me just say that Bioware - yet again - have rekindled my faith with this game.

[willsanders84]

Interesting. I just hit up youtube to listen to some PS:T tracks. I agree with you all, and think that your faith in bioware is well founded. After listening to Deionarra's theme, however, I realised that this probably wasn't the right place to write such a post, although I have to say you've all tempted me to play the game. I think perhaps I'm better off going and reading a book.



I recollect parts of Little Big Adventure, or Planescape, and the bits that I remember seem so far removed from killing anything, or gaming in any way.



I'll say this, taking your comments on board; good on you bioware, you didn't create some hack and slash mmorpg. You've made people think it seems. Ok you've used the typical game selling techniques, but can I blame you for that?

[Roxlimn]

Look up "AVN" or "Audio-Visual Novel." DAO is more like that than any other Western RPG to date. You're probably still better off reading classic literature, but DAO is certainly a step up from run-of-the-mill trash pocketbooks.

[Darkest Dreamer]

willsanders84 wrote...

In a world of fast cars, widescreen televisions, sunglasses and sex.

What, no sex way back when?

Oops, just edited out my response as I misread your post.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:40 .

[willsanders84]

Anyone who understands where I'm coming from with regard to modern computer games simply HAS to play Planescape: Torment. Download it.

[oblivionenss]

willsanders84 wrote...

Anyone who understands where I'm coming from with regard to modern computer games simply HAS to play Planescape: Torment. Buy it.

Fixed it for ya

[quietdisdain]

Nothing will compare to Torment. *Nothing*. I agree with what you said before about it being more of a period in your life as much as a game.  Does Dragon Age measure up to Torment? No, in my opinion.  Does that mean Dragon Age is a bad game? Also, No.

Dragon Age is... somewhat formulaic, to be honest. It's like a lot of other Bioware games in that respect, and personally, I enjoyed the atmosphere and feel of Mass Effect and KotoR more than I did in Dragon Age. Like I said though, that doesn't mean it's a bad game, and I still had a lot of fun playing it. It brought a lot of neat concepts to the table- I especially liked sequences regarding The Fade and demons.

If you're like me, you've spent some time trying to recapture that Torment feeling. So far, no game I've played has matched it, but a few have come close. Here's a quick list, if story and atmosphere are your main concern and gameplay mechanics don't necessarily concern you:

Vampire: The masquerade bloodlines- a buggy game, sometimes downright frustrating, but it has incredible atmosphere, awesome voice acting, and great music. Very worth at least one play-through.

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey- this is more of an adventure game than anything else, but talk about pulling you into the story. This game left an impression on me.

Call of Cthulhu Dark Corners of the Earth- again, somewhat buggy, can be frustrating to play, and the main character's voice acting is downright horrible. But there's something about this game, and maybe the Cthulhu mythos in general, that I found compelling and memorable.

Mass Effect and KotoR: If you haven't tried these yet, definitely do.

Assassin's Creed games: May not be your cup of tea as far as gameplay, but the story has drawn me in and I find myself playing till all hours of the night to find out what happens.

NwN2, NwN2 MoB: There are some memorable sequences in both of these games, particularly MoB. In fact, I even think that Daakon was mentioned by one of the Gith in NwN2, which was cool.

Sorry if this list is somewhatt off topic.

Modifié par quietdisdain, 30 novembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[willsanders84]

SPOT on topic. Thanks.

[Sibelius1]

willsanders84 wrote...

I've never played Dragon Age, but have enjoyed immensely Bioware's Baldur's Gate II, and Black Isle's Planescape Torment. The RPG, for me, has to be by definition the most absorbing and enjoyable game genre there is.

In the RPG there is the potential to fulfill the widest range of human emotions. After finishing Planescape Torment, I knew I could never play it again. It was as much a period of my life as it was a computer game, and it changed me as a person, contributed to who I am today.

And so I watch with disappointment youtube demonstrations of what has been described as the rpg of the future. It seems to me to be a very good game, Dragon Age. The characters seem to have been well thought out, the stroyline engrossing, the inventory practical. Will I ever buy it? I don't know.

In a world of fast cars, widescreen televisions, sunglasses and sex, when I sit down infront of my computer I want to forget about all those things, and let myself slip gently into the sort of world described in japanese myth, in greek mythology, in a George Owell novel. I want to become part of a world that interests and excites me, that tests me intellectually and forces me to take responsibility for myself and for my surroundings. I want it to be fresh and new, and not to know what I'll find around the corner - a killer bunny rabbit or an agreeable ogre.

I think that perhaps what I'm trying to say is that game developers, as a result of the mass market, can't afford to create original artworks. I've seen so many Orcs and Goblins that if one delivered me a pizza I don't even think I'd realise. My idea of an RPG is a fantasy, and now that fantasy has almost become it's own genre I fear I may have to hang up my headphones, if not for good, for a very long time.

What frustrates me (did you guess I'm fairly easily frustrated?) is that there's so much potential in the computer game industry, but it seems that like everything else, it's become generic and diluted to the point that originality isn't clever, it's stupid. If you try to create something that can be truly described as a piece of art, you risk not making all that money. It's happened to music, television and art. It's happened in the last fifteen years, and it seems that since then creativity has just been treading water. It's a sin, and I hope that soon we all become so bored of someone's forced to take a risk and create something original and beautiful.

Excellent post

/Applause

To be fair, DA:O is actually pretty original when it comes to games these days. I have read the first preview novel and was quite impressed by the scope of the world the lead writer has created, even if it does borrow heavilly from George RR Martin.

I do get what you are saying though, eleves, dwarves humans, orc like baddies and the chosen one and his merry men saving the world are hardly inspiring.

As you say music and film have both adopted this no risk policy, with production line boy bands & pop acts or formulaic romcoms & toothless special effect blockbusters being the order of the day.

The sad thing is that with Bioware now being a big player, and tied to the soulless corporation that is EA, we are very unlikely to see much in the way of innovation going forward. Execs baulk at the increased risk of a negative balance sheet involved in developing something new, and sadly, they call the shots.

A prime example of Bioware's selling out is their decision on their art direction for The Old Republic MMO.

This is Bioware's first foray into the MMO world and you would have thought that they would want to set the bar high and create an artistic and creative masterpiece.

What they have done is use cartoon graphics that seem to be a carbon copy of World of Warcrafts graphics from five years ago.

To defend this decision they have hit out with spin such as:
 
"We have went for stylised realism for our artstyle, as we feel it ages better than photo-realism".

The truth behind this spin is:
 
"We could have went for quality graphics, but we have decided to design this game using basic cartoon graphics that your granny's laptop will be able to run. This will allow as many people as possible to buy our game and we can then take a Scrooge McDuckesque swim in $100 bills"

Sacrificing your artistic integrity in order to sell to the masses is selling out in it's purest form.

Unfortunately Bioware has fallen victim to the keep it safe & sell to the masses culture that dominates the mainstream entertainment industry.

Like music and film we will have to look to independent labels or distributors if you want to have any hope of finding something truly innovative and fresh.

[Lortext]

Stopped reading at "I've never played Dragon Age."

[Haexpane]

willsanders84 wrote...

I've never played Dragon Age, but have enjoyed immensely Bioware's Baldur's Gate II, and Black Isle's Planescape Torment. The RPG, for me, has to be by definition the most absorbing and enjoyable game genre there is.

In the RPG there is the potential to fulfill the widest range of human emotions. After finishing Planescape Torment, I knew I could never play it again. It was as much a period of my life as it was a computer game, and it changed me as a person, contributed to who I am today.

And so I watch with disappointment youtube demonstrations of what has been described as the rpg of the future. It seems to me to be a very good game, Dragon Age. The characters seem to have been well thought out, the stroyline engrossing, the inventory practical. Will I ever buy it? I don't know.

In a world of fast cars, widescreen televisions, sunglasses and sex, when I sit down infront of my computer I want to forget about all those things, and let myself slip gently into the sort of world described in japanese myth, in greek mythology, in a George Owell novel. I want to become part of a world that interests and excites me, that tests me intellectually and forces me to take responsibility for myself and for my surroundings. I want it to be fresh and new, and not to know what I'll find around the corner - a killer bunny rabbit or an agreeable ogre.

I think that perhaps what I'm trying to say is that game developers, as a result of the mass market, can't afford to create original artworks. I've seen so many Orcs and Goblins that if one delivered me a pizza I don't even think I'd realise. My idea of an RPG is a fantasy, and now that fantasy has almost become it's own genre I fear I may have to hang up my headphones, if not for good, for a very long time.

What frustrates me (did you guess I'm fairly easily frustrated?) is that there's so much potential in the computer game industry, but it seems that like everything else, it's become generic and diluted to the point that originality isn't clever, it's stupid. If you try to create something that can be truly described as a piece of art, you risk not making all that money. It's happened to music, television and art. It's happened in the last fifteen years, and it seems that since then creativity has just been treading water. It's a sin, and I hope that soon we all become so bored of someone's forced to take a risk and create something original and beautiful.

Good lord did you use an essay generator for this pile of drivel?  "In a world of fast cars, widescreen televisions and sex.."

Seriously STFU na0 w/ that cliche nonsense.  

The only thing "generic, stupid and not clever" here is your long whinded whine.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Planescape Torment is one of the best RPGs ever made if not the best, the entire lore and history in it is so well developed despice the bugs... its history is unique... it offers so many ways to get through the game as Nameless One and takes us through the different planes as well.

No RPG or MMORPG has ever lived up to that masterpiece yet in my opinion... just the entire psykedelic way it was made was like woahw what is happening here haha, oh well can only wish for a true pearl somewhat that might happen again, if ever.

What the op say is actually correct, been playing Dragon Age for a while now and it is starting to become dull sadly enough... and that is said with some kind of huge respect for bioware in general, but we are losing the magic slowly, there is so much potential with the stuff we got with the Dragon Age engine adn toolset that it yet has to be uncovered for real and I agree to that the full potential of the game is rather rushed out before xmas rather than waiting another year for release.

Would not mind to be an epic adventure more alike what it was in the old days, NwN had some real kickbutt potential though as it is, but more epic adventures....

This post here made me want to re-install plane scape torment lol... I wonder if it would actually run on my system but there is a backdoor to everything as it is.

Modifié par GHL_Soul_Reaver, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:13 .

[willsanders84]

Some replies have hit me quite hard. Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. I know that there are people as frustrated as myself not only with current computer game releases, but with the state of the arts in general. It's made a difference to me reading your posts.



I can only hope that perhaps at some point we'll be so technologically fluent, so cosmopolitan, and have been so exposed, that animations of a sword going through someone's chest, or picture perfect graphics, will become old hat. Maybe then computer games, films, artworks, will be forced to return to answering the questions that we really care about. The questions that created them in the first place, so bloodily sacrificed now by greed.

[Lil Kis]

buy the game man! I played the game you mentioned and yes Dragon age Origins is better than that! It's even better than the other more recent bioware games coming out like KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect...get it homie!

Modifié par Lil Kis, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:53 .

[Roxlimn]

Never gonna happen. There's always the lowest common denominator and industry giants in any field have a vested interested in keeping their products predictable and safe - because at the end of the day, these products sell more because the mass of people who are interested in them far outweigh any fraction that may be interested in innovation.



By nature, innovation involves risk and change - the two things large entrenched entities do not want.

[SheffSteel]

If you find that game that's great Art, let us know and we'll maybe go buy it.

Of course, we'll have to hurry, because the developer is almost certainly about to go out of business, because great Art does not sell.

Welcome to capitalism. Hope you kept your receipt.

[thisisme8]

Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Ogres, Orcs, Trolls, what-have-you... Sometimes it's easier to take archetypes or races that are easily recognizeable so that you can focus on more important parts of the story. Like political intrigue, or unique characters. I think Bioware made a tough call by using your run-of-the-mill bad guys so they could focus more on lore and character development rather than the specific races of everyone involved.

[Odysseus44]

Thinking back, videogaming has come a long way. 'Before' all games either belonged to niche genres, or were experiments/attempts to break out of them. A lot of them came from board games, or tabletop rpgs, or were attempts at simulation. The result was that they hade pretty radical mechanics compared to today's standards.



Now we're in the age of the videogame 'industry', which says it all. Niche games are disappearing, even genres are converging. But there is never going to be the PST/Jagged Alliance2 that I dreamed of a decade ago (sigh)...



As for gaming as art. Don't you know EVERYTHING is Art nowadays. Most of it is just really BAD art.

[willsanders84]

Hehe. Snapperhead alert.



I know, and who am I to question its validity as art? I'm entitled to my opinion though, which I try to keep as open minded as possible, but is usually still "that's awful".



I've completely accepted the state of things, and really couldn't see them as being any other way. Frankly my conclusive opinion on it is, if it makes people happy, then good.



Doesn't it make you all a little sad though? It does me.

[Roxlimn]

World hunger tends to hog all my sadness points. Oh, and political massacres. And poverty.

[willsanders84]

Lack of art hogs mine