204 réponses à ce sujet

[Fame-KIllz]

The only think that irked me was that he made it a point to say that fans have been personally attacking devs. I feel like that is a very, very small number of people and by saying that the media will probably take that and use it against the whole movement.

[eddieoctane]

Clumsy Astronaut wrote...

Why are you angry? Is he supposed to kiss your boots and beg forgiveness? The fact that he admitted improvement can be made and that our complaints are valid is a great start.

Agreed. Getting this game back on track to being the game of the decade will require the fans and devs working together. This is the first step in the right direction. We should procede cautiously, but we should still procede.

[Aesieru]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Some inappropriate material removed. This is a reminder that disrespect towards our developers or executives will not be tolerated. You can disagree all you like, you can hate all you like, but if you can't do it with maturity and respect, then you have no place here and will quickly find your posting privileges--and don't mistake me, your participation in this community is a privilege--removed.

Be excellent to each other.

No offense Stanley, but if you feel like a company, a person, a friend, or other people basically disrespected and thought of you as akin to feces-matter based on their response, lack of responses, statements, or insults towards the community or you yourself... you wouldn't be respectful.

It's entirely understandable that people who are disrespected themselves would not respond with respect towards you.

[N-Seven]

Aside from the fantastic Child's Play charity, this movement is just becoming embarrassing now. Is it too late to back out of it and return to the land of sanity?

[termokanden]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

He is clearly not acknowledging that the product, as delivered, does not provide a satisfying gaming experience.

You can't realistically expect him him to acknowledge that your point of view is the right one when it's entirely subjective. I enjoyed the game a lot on my first playthrough, and I'm still enjoying myself even though I did not like the ending. Therefore I can't agree with some kind of general statement about the game not providing a satisfying gaming experience. I can accept the fact that you didn't like it, but that's another story.

[DS Monkfish]

Some people seem to have decided to be furious with anything Bioware says before they even say it - unless it's some kind of grovelling apology and promises of the moon on a stick.

Of course there will be some PR spin - they're not just going to say "wow, we screwed the ending, we'll redo it right now" when the game has only been out for a few weeks. That would impact sales and brand image further and it's just not going to happen.

The fact that we've had a response from the co-founder is remarkable at this stage, and would not have happened if we were getting nowhere.

The solution will most likely be a compromise of some kind - maybe not the full ending rewrite some fans want, but hopefully a more complete and consistent one. We just don't know yet, and we won't for a while. So until the official announcement, we need to keep keep pushing, keep being heard, and keep it courteous. Screaming and raging at every little thing will just make us look like the whining haters we're often perceived as, and that will not help us at all.

[Helishorn]

Lugaidster wrote...

If you had more than two fingers of brain and actually knew one bit of socilogy you'd realize that there's no direct relation between the fans angry at the endings an the number of sales. For starters, you can't know for sure how many people actually have finished the game, and secondly, you can't know how many don't like it. Silence can add to both parts. There are a few ways to analyze the number none of which is "50000 is 2% so, herp derp, minority".

*Golf Clap*

So instead of being impressed that 2% of the people who purchased the game are indeed affecting change you decide to show your intelligence by spouting off things inconsequential to what I actually said.

Let me put it another way. Bioware is a business. If you have bought the game Bioware does not care if you have finished it so from a business stand point the retake movement is the minority.

This is not a bad thing! Just in case you still don't get it.

So when you're done beating your chest and being angry you should take a moment and reflect on how impressive of a thing it is that a minority of people have affected possible change in a company. Take a moment to pat yourself on the back or get a hug but for the love of Marauder shields quit being so angry.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

My real problem with forums like this is that it makes it look like we never are happy. Silence and cryptic answers? RAGE they're ignoring us! Response showing that complaints are being considered and that things are being done? RAGE he's subtly insulting and demeaning us! Maybe we never are happy...

[panamakira]

Why do we HAVE to be offended by everything MY GOD!?

Can't we just take it for what it is without flipping out? Read the latest Forbes article. They may not have agreed with everything the Co-Founder said but at least we can take it for what it is and just wait to hear what announcement Bioware has to make.

[Edrick1976]

I felt a little like I was getting the FU from the blog however I am more pissed that from how I took his blog it does not look like we are getting ANYTHING we asked for. They are not, in my opinion going to change the ending, thats what I took from this blog. I am HOPPING I am wrong however I will waite and see what happens in April at PAX (I think its PAX)...

[Spherexius]

On one hand, he has a lot of good points regarding the destructive vs constructive criticism, and personal attacks on their staff members. It's impossible for the #RetakeMassEffect movement to control that though, other than their official statements, so I don't think that it should be used as a sweeping statement regarding the entire movement. A lot of us just want an ending that makes sense, and that is in tune with the ME-universe (the indoctrination theory would be _perfect_ to further expand upon, up till the point where it could be my favorite ending to a game ever, if done right!).

On the other hand, I feel that game critics have gotten too much of the focus in the way he weighs them up against "the fans". Are they truly neutral or is there a fear of a future embargo of EA titles or a loss of ad-revenue? While I agree that the game is good 95% of the time, there are a lot of negatives to the equation as well. The game is not perfect, regardless of the endings.

Let's just hope that they actually do something about this. I love Bioware, have spent thousands of hours in their games, and would like to give them the benefit of a doubt in this situation, but I've just about had enough. In my eyes, the product that I purchased was incomplete. Not only was it incomplete, but the ending is so unfulfilling that it has made me feel that the hours I've invested in the series has been for naught.

Edit: Forbes said it well.


Please Bioware. If you read this, just fix it. I don't want to be your enemy, but I will fight you till the end if I must. 

Modifié par Spherexius, 21 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[Echo_V]

ericjdev wrote...

Hexi-decimal wrote...

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

As a guy who's considered himself part of retake, I do think this a valid question. Everyone's paranoia is getting to the emarrasing level today. We got some good news, settle down.

This!
It really seems to get worse. I see paranoia everwhere.

[CavScout]

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

^ This.

[Tyrzun]

You didn't get good news. You need to read the break down of what was said. It was pure PR jargon and insulting. Telling us to go out and spread the word and get people to buy it... as he defends it as art. And throws the critics reviews in our faces as why the small minority as he calls us don't get it.

[RLesueur]

Echo_V wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Hexi-decimal wrote...

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

As a guy who's considered himself part of retake, I do think this a valid question. Everyone's paranoia is getting to the emarrasing level today. We got some good news, settle down.

This!
It really seems to get worse. I see paranoia everwhere.

Yeah, I was proud to be part of a movement giving constructive feedback and raising money for charity.

I don't want to be part of bitter paranoia and insulting people who are trying to give us what we asked for.

[Sevorast]

Typical PR garbage. As usual.

[Jamanticarius]

Aesieru wrote...

No offense Stanley, but if you feel like a company, a person, a friend, or other people basically disrespected and thought of you as akin to feces-matter based on their response, lack of responses, statements, or insults towards the community or you yourself... you wouldn't be respectful.

It's entirely understandable that people who are disrespected themselves would not respond with respect towards you.

This is a key point: even if you get disrespected, you should go the extra mile and keep cool.  Hardest thing to do in a situation like that, but it's ultimately the most constructive.  

[SimKoning]

I wasn't offended. This looks like good news to me. They are addressing the issue apparently, which is frigin awesome. If they want to maintain artistic integrity, then it looks like they gotta go with the whole indoc theory thing, because that would involve the fewest changes possible.

Modifié par SimKoning, 21 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[nametry629]

OP, he is trying to walk along the razor blade of addressing pissed off fans while also trying to sound supportive to his staff. I wouldn't read too much into it.

What you can take from it is that:
a) They think the end is a work of art and they are not going to change it.
They are going to make some dlc for those of us that are too dumb to appreciate art :/

[CarGryph]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Some inappropriate material removed. This is a reminder that disrespect towards our developers or executives will not be tolerated. You can disagree all you like, you can hate all you like, but if you can't do it with maturity and respect, then you have no place here and will quickly find your posting privileges--and don't mistake me, your participation in this community is a privilege--removed.

Be excellent to each other.

My reason for posting in this thread in the first place was the agreement I felt with the OPs concerns about what Dr. Muzyka said. Although I really didn't feel offended or insulted by the statement, it seems like another big PR strike to deflect the criticism and to calm the tides - which doesn't seem to work all to well.

Don't get me wrong - I'll luckily and honestly chime in the praising of the Mass Effect dev team wholeheartedly - the series as a whole is a frickin' awesome ride and they truly accomplished something great with it.

That said, I also wholeheartedly agree with the fans demanding a better conclusion to Shepard's story - which honestly cannot be delivered with an ending full of plotholes (won't go in-depth here) with 3 different color filters and a feeling that it is mostly detached from anything accomplished before it from ME1 up to that point. It also has a strange dreamy-like feel to it as not being real - which leads me back to holding up the Indoctrination Theory or something likewise right into BioWare's face.

And honestly, people at BioWare, tell me: Was the massive and mostly negative fan reaction really unexpected? Come on, guys, you cannot make me believe that. It would be stunning and considering you as detached from the fanbase not to consider (many)... let's say... critical or displeased voices from us.

Also, I cannot imagine that the whole dev team (like... about 100 people?) was all like "woohoo, this is everything we wanted to do!" after presenting and/or living through the ending. Please tell me honestly: Didn't at least someone voice their concerns or displeasure about it within the ME3 team?

I also want to point out a little flaw in Dr. Muzyka's arguments which is considering games as arts and the devs as artists (do it or not, it doesn't really matter for what I think): Like the already linked Forbes article points out is that receiving, considering and discussing criticism is your first duty as an artist who wants his product to have impact. That's the main reason why art is created. Letting your fans and critics participate in this art in the way games in general - some do it more or less - allow it, has to mean something for the artist as well, because he at least has to consider to add something to complete/further develop it.

So please, BioWare, give us a definitive statement or new facts - not another comment/statement/whatever giving the same dev praising and promises as Casey Hudson (et al) already did: Repeating it doesn't help to make peace with your fans once again - the trust we put in you is deeply hurt.

And at least, people at BioWare, give us a worthy ending to Shepard's story. I already said the integrity of the game is easily maintained by incorporating the Indoctrination Theory (or something similar) into the last sequence of the game and also a true final boss.

I still have faith in BioWare and hope for the proper conclusion our Sheps do deserve - I still have the slight (while slowly fading) hope that it was all a big, big ruse to show people what leaks can probably do to a highly anticipated story, while planning to release the "true" ending nonetheless after all it has triggered.

So please, BioWare, live up to that hope!

I'll continue to Hold the Line as Marauder Shields does.

Modifié par CarGryph, 21 mars 2012 - 11:05 .

[Texhnolyze101]

What they say doesn't matter just ignore the PR rubbish.

[heathxxx]

What I will say, is that if any developer/publisher is so surprised and shocked at negative feedback for their product, when compared to the immensely favourable "professional critic" reviews, then it's time they paused for a reality check. Seriously.

When a game review magazine or website produces a very favourable "review" of a product, whilst that same magazine or site also features a considerable amount of paid advertising for the very same product, it's fair to assume that the "reviews" are bound to be slanted strongly in favour of the product.

After all, if one such "professional critic" were to blast a game or product, you can be sure the developers/producers certainly wouldn't be advertising with them again. To a great extent, so-called "professional reviews" often offer little more than mutual back-patting.

Essentially this renders the majority of such "reviews" as irrelevant. What does matter, is the customer feedback, because after all, they are paying for the privilege of using the product.

Whilst I don't feel "offended" by the blog from the Co-Founder of BioWare, I'm perhaps a little surprised more than anything. Has he become so detached from his market that he doesn't appreciate the subtle and not so subtle differences between what are effectively sponsored reviews and customer feedback?

I would hope that after the negative customer feedback Dragon Age 2 received, BioWare might have paused to take stock. The feedback for ME3 is perhaps a second warning.

Whilst in itself ME3 is very good, it's certainly not the "perfect score" game that the "professional" review sites and magazines have painted it to be. There's simply too many bugs, flaws and plot holes, let alone the debatable "quality" and ambiguity of the "ending".

I would say this...

Forget the "professional" reviews. They aren't paying BioWare/EA to play the games. Customers are. Sales and future productions depend on customers buying the games, so it's their feedback that ultimately matters.

Forget the anonymous "haters" and "trolls" on the internet, but take stock of the constructive criticism. Unfortunately you have to sift through the crap in order to seek the constructive criticism on forums these days, but there's sufficient enough of that constructive, well intended and well thought out criticism there, no matter how negative or dismayed with the game it may be.

I would sincerely hope that the majority of the main issues are resolved.

[ChaosMarky]

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

[antony1197]

Are you guys really that gullible dont believe the PR crap until they actually have proof to back it up we trusted them in the past now look what happened.

[davarino]

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?