204 réponses à ce sujet

[Dridengx]

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

[Hudathan]

From the sound of all this Mass Effect 3 must be the worst game ever so why are people still here talking about it?

[ericjdev]

ChaosMarky wrote...

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

I've been proud to be part of retake but today was really trying and I agree with the above. Still holding the line but damn, show some appreciation and respect and manage your expectations.

[jb1983]

I guess if people want to be offended, they can be offended.

I found his statement to be very respectful and appropriate. If nothing else, he notes the importance that "core fans" (notice he called the detractors "core fans," that's a compliment) have on the game. And he is right too that developers be given some artistic freedom.

It seems like this will end up being a compromise where the endings stay, but there is post-ending DLC released to answer some of the problems the endings gave.

That's a good thing...

[nametry629]

ChaosMarky wrote...

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

no they are not giving a new ending

"team are hard at work on a number of game
content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more
clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey"

They are going to 'clarify' the ending as they somehow have the impression that people simply dont like it because they dont understand it.

[Dridengx]

Tyrzun wrote...

You didn't get good news. You need to read the break down of what was said. It was pure PR jargon and insulting. Telling us to go out and spread the word and get people to buy it... as he defends it as art. And throws the critics reviews in our faces as why the small minority as he calls us don't get it.

would you rather had him lie and say 44k people are a vast majority of his fanbase and sales when studies have shown those numbers in the millions? He's a Dr. He's a brilliant mind, he isn't going to lie to make a few upset fans feel powerful as a group. He can sugar coat not to ruffle some feathers but that's where the line is drawn.

[Helishorn]

Dridengx wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

You didn't get good news. You need to read the break down of what was said. It was pure PR jargon and insulting. Telling us to go out and spread the word and get people to buy it... as he defends it as art. And throws the critics reviews in our faces as why the small minority as he calls us don't get it.

would you rather had him lie and say 44k people are a vast majority of his fanbase and sales when studies have shown those numbers in the millions? He's a Dr. He's a brilliant mind, he isn't going to lie to make a few upset fans feel powerful as a group. He can sugar coat not to ruffle some feathers but that's where the line is drawn.

Really good point Dridengx.

[Spherexius]

Hudathan wrote...
From the sound of all this Mass Effect 3 must be the worst game ever so why are people still here talking about it?

Because we've invested a lot of time and money into the series. Because we're sad to see one of our favorite series go out like this. Because it's painful to put more hours into the series, despite how good it is until the final 10 minutes, when you know you'll leave the experience unfulfilled.

Bioware should take our passion for the Mass Effect universe as high praise, but they should also do something about the endings. Fast.

Again, Forbes said it really well.

Modifié par Spherexius, 21 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[ChaosMarky]

nametry629 wrote...

ChaosMarky wrote...

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

no they are not giving a new ending

"team are hard at work on a number of game
content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more
clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey"

They are going to 'clarify' the ending as they somehow have the impression that people simply dont like it because they dont understand it.

They know they can't please everyone, so they found a middle ground to please both the PRO-ending & ANTI-ending people. I'm happy for that!

I just dont understand why some people still keep bashing them. Is a little "thank you" too much? after all the chaos?

[JulienJaden]

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

Well, I usually don't get offended by someone who acknowledges me as an equal, listens to my arguments, recognizes them as valid (if they are), offers his/her point of view but can admit to mistakes.
I also don't get offended by good writing, games with deep stories and well thought-out endings (no matter if sad, happy or anywhere in-between), kittens, my girlfriend...

How about you?

[Spherexius]

ChaosMarky wrote...

nametry629 wrote...

ChaosMarky wrote...

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

no they are not giving a new ending

"team are hard at work on a number of game
content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more
clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey"

They are going to 'clarify' the ending as they somehow have the impression that people simply dont like it because they dont understand it.

They know they can't please everyone, so they found a middle ground to please both the PRO-ending & ANTI-ending people. I'm happy for that!

I just dont understand why some people still keep bashing them. Is a little "thank you" too much? after all the chaos?

It is a PR manouver, so actually, yes. It is too much to expect. He deflects issues, bunkers up and tries to divide the movement. It's pretty blatant as well.

Quoting Forbes here: "Lots of padding in here praising the BioWare team for their courage to accept criticism, which is odd since that’s simply par for the proverbial course when it comes to art. If video games are indeed art than it doesn’t take courage to accept or respond to criticism. It’s simply what one does."

And... "As far as Muzyka’s apology goes: It’s better than nothing, but any apology with a “but” at the end should be taken with a hefty spoonful of sea salt. After all, when has “I’m sorry, honey, but…” ever worked?"


We'll see what comes of this, but we will not give up an inch until that happens.

Modifié par Spherexius, 21 mars 2012 - 11:27 .

[JulienJaden]

ChaosMarky wrote...

nametry629 wrote...

ChaosMarky wrote...

Whatever the co-founder said, its NOTHING compared to what the "fans" have bashed to the devs during the previous weeks. They gave us what we wanted, a new altered ending! Could you please stop whining and say "thank you" at the very least?

no they are not giving a new ending

"team are hard at work on a number of game
content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more
clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey"

They are going to 'clarify' the ending as they somehow have the impression that people simply dont like it because they dont understand it.

They know they can't please everyone, so they found a middle ground to please both the PRO-ending & ANTI-ending people. I'm happy for that!

I just dont understand why some people still keep bashing them. Is a little "thank you" too much? after all the chaos?

But it doesn't make any sense. If the people who are happy with it want to keep the ending, make the additional endings an optional DLC. The people who despise it will get endings that make our choices matter and those who want to can keep theirs. This "middle-ground" is pretty much just them trying to find the cheapest way to tell the public: "See? We offered them what they wanted but they're still asking for more! Nothing we can do could possibly please these entitled brats!"

[Midarc2nd]

Midarc2nd wrote...

It's an olive branch.
Whether it is 'faux' or genuine should be irrelevent to our behaviour.
It's welcome, as any dialogue with Bioware, and should be acknowledged as such.

Until more information is available, well...
You know the score.

Keep civil.
Keep outlining our issues in a clear manner.
Stay attentive regarding developments.
Hold the line.

Modifié par Midarc2nd, 21 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Midarc2nd]

(well, I'm far too inept on forum control to delete a double post properly.)

Modifié par Midarc2nd, 21 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Ricvenart]

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the repeated use of "artistic integrity", when that has gone out of the window with page after page of documented evidence pointing out the numberous errors. Much like with Deception, including a Google document compiled by many people, who are passionate and familar with the themes and ideas of the game.

Though I'm so glad he didn't bring up the multiple positive reviews (although in not doing so, he did), because It means I wouldn't have to point out the "positive" reviews amount to "it's great because it's great" compared to the negative "It's out of place because...." followed by a long list of reasons, including the common top 10 and above said well compiled google document.

I don't know whether this should absolutely kill my hope the indoc. Theory was planned or if they are just playing into the rage for more coverage, yes it screams bad idea but it's not like advertising has never taken a wrong path before. Although on that note, more evidence of how much the fans know about the series, the core group that should be important to you, how well it's been thought out. It's a real shame it almost seems to say that nothing like that will be happening now, just some kind of epilogue.

[mxfox408]

I took it like a Fart in the wind, it stunk but its gone, just as all PR talk.

[RiouHotaru]

dmath2 wrote...

Some people seem to have decided to be furious with anything Bioware says before they even say it - unless it's some kind of grovelling apology and promises of the moon on a stick.

Of course there will be some PR spin - they're not just going to say "wow, we screwed the ending, we'll redo it right now" when the game has only been out for a few weeks. That would impact sales and brand image further and it's just not going to happen.

The fact that we've had a response from the co-founder is remarkable at this stage, and would not have happened if we were getting nowhere.

The solution will most likely be a compromise of some kind - maybe not the full ending rewrite some fans want, but hopefully a more complete and consistent one. We just don't know yet, and we won't for a while. So until the official announcement, we need to keep keep pushing, keep being heard, and keep it courteous. Screaming and raging at every little thing will just make us look like the whining haters we're often perceived as, and that will not help us at all.

And even then, they're not going to say "You're right, the endings sucked!" if they don't believe that.  They recognize that we don't get the endings, and it seems clear they're workings towards creating that understanding.  Which is exactly what we should expect them to do.  We're looking at the endings going "This doesn't make any sense!", so they're officially saying "Then let's see if we can fix that..."

Though some folks aren't going to be satisified unless Bioware makes a signed confession in front of the Supreme Court.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 22 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[Clumsy Astronaut]

I just want a more fleshed out ending and that looks like it might be coming to pass.

[FyreSyder]

Grasich wrote...

Not really offended, but it is annoying that they are STILL trying to dismiss us as a minority movement, and are STILL trying to play off "artistic integrity", both of which are absolute BS.

^^^

[shepskisaac]

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

[Scoob]

Anyone not offended should read the Google doc, or watch AngryJoe's video, and then read the statement again. Stop being so easily persuaded by empty PR statements.

[Ricvenart]

Et Tu Isaac?
Last time I checked you weren't a big fan of thier PR tactics, especially when it came to saying alot of nothings.

Wonder how much infinately better it would have read, had he at least acknowlegde why some fans don't like the endings, acknowlegde the myriad of points but not admit to it being right.

[HenchxNarf]

Grasich wrote...

Not really offended, but it is annoying that they are STILL trying to dismiss us as a minority movement, and are STILL trying to play off "artistic integrity", both of which are absolute BS.

Hold the line.

Cause you are the minority? I would take what BioWare says in terms of fanbase. They know more about it than any of us.

I'm glad they went and said it. So maybe people will understand.

[HenchxNarf]

Clumsy Astronaut wrote...

I just want a more fleshed out ending and that looks like it might be coming to pass.

Not really. No one has said anything was coming, except DLC that was already planned.

[darknessmyown]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

joe1852 wrote...

what aren't u guys offended by?

Kittens?

Actually, I am offended by kittens, very much so. I find them to be distasteful with their little furry bodies and cute behavior. They just have no shame.

Switching to a less sarcastic note however, I did feel at least a little insulted by what he had to say. Not directly, and not enough to feel I have to retaliate in some manner. The line about "artistic integrity" touched a nerve as well. But I take this, like so much else that Bioware has been saying lately, with a grain of salt, or possible a tablespoon of it, since I doubt much is getting out of Bioware at this point that is not being screened and edited heavily first.

That all being said, I am hopeful at this point but still a little skeptical.

Modifié par darknessmyown, 22 mars 2012 - 12:41 .