205 réponses à ce sujet

[ragnorok87]

nuff said

[StabGuy]

ragnorok87 wrote...


nuff said

I raged into a super saiyan watching that.

[X_30002000]

How can someone call that “ending” an Art if it does not pass basic story-writing rules? That “ending” not even full of plot holes, it destroys whole story by contradicting it. This is not an Art this is not even a craftsmanship, this is arrogant dilettantism.

[HectorTheWellEndowed]

All I know is that had Ken Levine been in charge of the ending, it wouldn't suck.

[Texhnolyze101]

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 21 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[Gatt9]

aries1001 wrote...

Isn't there a bigger discussion here behind all of this controversy? Namely this one:

Who owns the right to the main characters in a videogame? Bioware or the fans?

And by that I mean this:

Bioware believes that it should have the right to make whatever ending they want to say ME3 because videogames are art and such. Fans believe they have earned a right to see their actions count, they want to see their actions carried out in the consequences during the game as well in the endings. Bioware want to tell stories through the videogame medium, fans want to do whatever they want (it seems?) within reason, of course.

This the salient point now, it seems...

Not really,  it's a very easy discussion.

In a movie,  tv show,  or book,  the end user has no participation,  and no investment.  If you create a bad ending,  the only result other than it bombing,  is that you can no longer use the property (In most cases).  Further,  if a customer waits for a review,  they receive a reasonably objective review.

In a video game,  especially an RPG,  the end user has participation,  and has invested themselves.  If you create a bad ending,  you've just ended your end user's investment and experience badly.  Especially here where most people seem to consider Shepherd an Avatar for themselves.  Due to this personal investment,  a bad ending is particularly jarring,  especially when it's nothing like what the studio stated they should expect.

Further,  if a customer waits for a review,  they receive a review highly favoring the Publisher rather than being objective,  due to the nature of the relationship between a Publisher and a Journalist,  Journalists must make Publishers (not fans) happy.  We already know that an objective review can result in questionable terminations,  and/or requests from the Publisher to "Rereview" it.

Finally,  a Movie is ~$10,  a book is ~$7,  a TV show is neglible expense,  a video game is $60.  A series like ME is $180 not counting the DLC.  The financial investment to get a bad ending that makes the end user unhappy is significantly larger.

[Moondoggie]

sistersafetypin wrote...

I am saddened Ken Levine so utterly missed the point

Yes because a games developer can't possibly understand video games as much as you.

[HectorTheWellEndowed]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

System Shock 2 and Bioshock.

[Rockworm503]

Fidget6 wrote...

neilthecellist wrote...

If the DLC isn't free, I'm returning my game.

You might as well return it now though, it ain't gonna happen. And to expect it to is frankly ridiculous. Game developers need money, and a DLC would cost them a lot of it, so they can't just crap one out and give it out for free.

Strange how I bought this game from valve for 5 bucks and their treating these DLC as patches.  I haven't payed a cent for new maps.

[NukeZen]

The dices are rolling on the table right now. Let's see what's gonna happen when they stop.
This is one of the most epic blind bet in history. No one really knows the prize for the winner and every one have bet all he can and have.

Really interesting indeed

[Straw_foot]

It doesn't set any precedent, this has been done before. By companies with some of the most highly rated, best selling games (BETHESDA!) Bethesda and Bioware have always been my favorite game companies, since Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights.

Bioshock was pretty good, but not even close to on Par with any Mass Effect game. I own Bioshock 1 and 2. This is like J.K. Rowling criticizing J.R.R. Tolkein.

Modifié par Straw_foot, 21 mars 2012 - 11:28 .

[Ticondurus]

I get Ken's point. Because some people actually liked the ending, and changing the ending means they were "wrong" in the first place, Epilogue DLC is the only option and will be released explaining the ending better and giving us better "closure" which is fine by me as long as everything makes sense.

[culletron1]

Levine is right... I disliked the ending, but if bioware believe in it then they absolutely shouldn't change it...

Art is not a democracy

[Toyou4you]

To the trolls talking about "True Fans' being let down: I don't remember me telling you that you could speak for me? Great read though

[xsdob]

Salis777 wrote...

"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," Barnett said. "Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I don't think she should be forced to make another one."

What kind of nonsense is that. No one is forcing Bioware to do anything lol. If JK Rowling blew up Harry Potter and the whole cast in an ending and everyone hated it they'd just say 'wow that was utter crap.' And not buy her books. What a strange analogy.

Over and above that JK Rowling isn't selling a piece of interactive media where it's 'your story, and your decisions matter.' PLUS, they can change the game with a pre-established DLC system which they already planned to do.

All this wishy washy artistic license stuff is just stupid. It's a product, you're paying your writers to write a story, to sell as part of an overall product. Sometimes it goes wrong, change it if it makes business sense.  Cut the artistic fluff - does your Finance Director care about that? lol.  If 100,000 people said wow we really hate the color of tali's costume, they'd just say ok we'll change it (probably?).

Have you not been coming here the past week? Almost every thrread is filled with "make bioware change the ending" post. Besides, if you can convince the supreme court that their decisison to give vidoe games the same protection that all other art-media has was wrong because it's an interactive media, than your welcome to denounce vidoe games as art.

Just expect no good games to come from that decision, with citizen induced censorship or blacklisting no longer being prohibited.

Modifié par xsdob, 21 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[mauro2222]

Aesieru wrote...

BioWare released a product that wasn't even complete or anything like they promised by interviews and advertisements.

Don't forget the plot holes!

[xsdob]

Another thought that just occured to me, did mass effect ever have a real epilogue in any of the games? Cause I never remember seeing one for One or Two.

[Texhnolyze101]

HectorTheWellEndowed wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

System Shock 2 and Bioshock.

What do those games have to do with anything?

edit: nevermind

Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 21 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[CuddilyEvil93]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

He's the guy who had Bioshock Infinite's female lead designed with a lowcut top with her breast on prominant display. All pictures of her were marketed with her breast front and center. Little of the game's story information was released. Then he complained that fans focused more on her breast than the game's story.

[UntamedZer0]

OK so you created a work of "art".

I can create a work of "art" as well but that doesn't mean it will be good art.

You can weld metal trash together and call it art, that doesn't mean everyone is going to automaticly love it because it's "art".

Thats the feeling I keep getting to this "art" topic. If we call it art then it is grand and awesome.

Mind you Van Gough was an artist, and while he was alive he didn't have a lot of fans for his art.

So if we are going to stick with this "art" excuse then I have to bring up that most "art" isn't worth jack squat till after the creator dies.

Still want to call it "art"?

Modifié par UntamedZer0, 21 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[Texhnolyze101]

CuddilyEvil93 wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

He's the guy who had Bioshock Infinite's female lead designed with a lowcut top with her breast on prominant display. All pictures of her were marketed with her breast front and center. Little of the game's story information was released. Then he complained that fans focused more on her breast than the game's story.

Guy sounds like an idiot ah well back to not caring about his opinion.

[NukeZen]

Straw_foot wrote...

It doesn't set any precedent, this has been done before. By companies with some of the most highly rated, best selling games (BETHESDA!) Bethesda and Bioware have always been my favorite game companies, since Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights.

Bioshock was pretty good, but not even close to on Par with any Mass Effect game. I own Bioshock 1 and 2. This is like J.K. Rowling criticizing J.R.R. Tolkein.

Yes, i know well the broken steel case, but is quite different to the mass effect 3 case. Broken steel "just" expand the ending of the game. The game intself remain the same. Here the "hold the line" movement is asking to "change", "throw away", "retake" an already done and pulished part of a game. Is very different in my opinion and i dont remember nothing similar. The precedent is set by the fact that it seems biowere are going to do so, their are plannig to change somthing on an already published product.
But maby i forgot something.... is possible.

[mauro2222]

"The "games are art" argument is not a get out of jail free card for developers. There is a distinct difference between a painting by Pablo Picasso and Mass Effect 3, or any other video game for that matter, because Picasso creates one painting and displays that painting. It is an expression of his own artistic creativity. Perhaps, someone who likes the painting will buy it because he admires it. Mass Effect 3 was never created with the intention of being an outlet for Bioware's creativity, it was created with the intention of entertaining it's customers and generating sales. Thus, for it's designers to refer to it as a work of art and defend their position is rather ironic, considering the fact that it was designed to be sold and consumed."

I love that comment.