205 réponses à ce sujet

[G3rman]

It didn't give a proper epilogue with closure trilogies are supposed to have. It should not be satisfying to anyone who is interested in the outcome of the galaxy and the characters.

[mauro2222]

WeWant wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Thus, for it's designers to refer to it as a work of art and defend their position is rather ironic, considering the fact that it was designed to be sold and consumed."

I love that comment.

So music is not art either.

Depends on the so called "artist"... music can become art or enterteinment depending of the artist and how he views his music. Music is not every sound with melody or a sing that goes with a sounds.

Good or bad, it's still a "product meant to be consumed" like you said.

Not really, if it sells or not doesn't have to do with what the artist meant when he created it.

You can make music and have it free. You can make music but you need money, so you sell it.

But making music just to sell is not art, it's entertainment. That's why I consider people who do music to be famous as entertainers and not artists.

[MDT1]

All this talk about artistic integrity doesn't hit the nail imho.
Most artists in the world have to adept their art to a certain degree to the likings of their customers if they wanna make their living with it. If you don't want to, fine, but many of the greates artists in human hstory died poor.
I can understand whe an industry wants to be in a comfy zone where people don't dare to touch their artistic integrity, but if you value it above anything els, you should perhaps consider not to sell it to the broad public, but only to an exquisite circle that shares your vision.

Also about Harry Potter, I actually read it, and the thing is, she just made a good ending.
The book grow in complexity and picked up things of previous books that weren't of obvious importance and conclude all strings and you really see how everthing comes togehther in the end.
Do those people really believe fans would have been satisfied if the final bock ended with a big explosion caused by the duell between Voldemort and Potter and no word if anyone at Hogwarts survieved it but with a note to buy more merchandise?

Something I had also wished for ME3.

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 12:38 .

[lumen11]

Salis777 wrote...

Look, 2% of any side of any argument is going to be raving lunatics.  Ignore that.  As for the reaction to this I'd say it's been level headed in the majority and BW are getting useful info.  And if you think EA will cave if the numbers don't add you're crazy.  They have a pretty solid history of utterly destroying franchises for cash.  Business.

Interesting point. Do we want Bioware to cave for EA's business interests?

[LOLandStuff]

English isn't my first language and am a little tired.
Maybe it's just me, but as an artist, I'm not interested in what others say about my work. It's personal, it's mine. And if I want to share it to the whole world as a product, then I'm expecting to try and please people.
But if I listen to people's feedback, promise all kind of mind blowing stuff, then show up with some lousy RGB painting and claiming: "That's art, you don't understanding it" is a load of BS.
I don't really care what they consider ME to be, but as long as they pretend to care for our opinion, then they just can't give us a massive WTF ending and then use the "My vision. I do what I want." excuse, or whatever lousy article uses it to justify a lousier ending.
I appreciate all the work they've done so far, but I can do without the ending.I don't know how many times I played ME1 and 2, lost track and have many characters. But my second run in ME3 was like pushing a boulder uphill.And the rest of my characters are hanging around on Earth.

[Salis777]

lumen11 wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Look, 2%
of any side of any argument is going to be raving lunatics.  Ignore
that.  As for the reaction to this I'd say it's been level headed in the
majority and BW are getting useful info.  And if you think EA will cave
if the numbers don't add you're crazy.  They have a pretty solid
history of utterly destroying franchises for cash.  Business.

Interesting point. Do we want Bioware to cave for EA's business interests?

They already did, they sold the company to EA.

Modifié par Salis777, 22 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[NOD-INFORMER37]

lumen11 wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Look, 2% of any side of any argument is going to be raving lunatics.  Ignore that.  As for the reaction to this I'd say it's been level headed in the majority and BW are getting useful info.  And if you think EA will cave if the numbers don't add you're crazy.  They have a pretty solid history of utterly destroying franchises for cash.  Business.

Interesting point. Do we want Bioware to cave for EA's business interests?

Too late for that man....

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Oh and I think I just found the vid related to the OP's article.- http://americanart.s...fest/thefuture/

The part about Bioware is at the 1:13:15 mark. 

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 22 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[wintervale]

My old art teacher told us 'never underestimate the potential you have when you are dead.'

It also reminds me of that scene in Extras where the main character (can't remember the name sorry) is told by his manager that he can be a respected artist who plugs away at his craft in obscurity or filthy rich. Not both.

I don't want Bioware to die or fade into obscurity because I have not yet discovered another developer that makes choice and character driven RPGs. It does however make me wary of throwing good money after bad (I used to hold the opinion that Bioware could never have enough of my money).

If you take all of the press releases in the lead up to ME3's release as Bioware's intended vision then it simply doesn't marry with the vision we bought and paid for. So, did Bioware sell out to EA or did they lie about their vision?

(Does anyone else think that Ken Levine is just trying to get the Bioshock name out there, maybe pick up a few extra customers?)

[Squallypo]

im tearing nonstop because of the ending the RGB colours are killing me sniff sniff.

[mauro2222]

wintervale wrote...

(Does anyone else think that Ken Levine is just trying to get the Bioshock name out there, maybe pick up a few extra customers?)

It's fear what moved his words. So yes, what you said, and afraid of his own fanbase.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Quick question guys, where are the banners for "retakeME3" like the guy above me located?

And is there one for Canada?

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 22 mars 2012 - 01:13 .

[mcsupersport]

kamikazen wrote...

Dont know, maby i dont get the point.
The movment is asking somthing, to change what he dont like about a part of a game, a protuct, an artwork or whatever it is. Ok.
The movment, or a large part of it, is asking for this change to be free, for a lot of reason. Ok.
The movment, or a large part of it, by what i can read at last in this forum, is menacing bioware and EA to boycott them if they dont do what the movement want. Ok.

Are you calling this something consttuctive? Are you telling me this is not a try to force someone to do something? And who the hell are you to decide this kind of things whitout my opinion and rights? Am i not a customer? And by me, i mean every one how like this game as it is.

If you bought a Porsche from a dealer on Pre-Purchase and the Adverts for it said 400+HP V6 0-60MPH in 2.5 seconds, able to make a 1.5G turn, and what you recieved was a 150HP 4cyc, 0-60MPH in 9 9 seconds, and could barely go around a corner what would you do??  You still got a Porsche, so what would you think was fair??  Do you think you would write a letter to Porsche and complain??  Would you post a review of the new car and tell what you think about it??  Are you a Meanace if you do so??

[Blc949]

The ending for me3 was about as artistic as the "twist" ending a kid puts at the end of his paper for freshman creative writing. Yeah sure, it seems great to him, and the teacher gives him a B for the effort of actually finishing the assignment, but no one else in the class liked it, at all.

That's what it felt like.

[Heretic19]

He's sad because he now knows that he has to actually make a solid ending for a Bioshock game. The last two were DREADFUL, but the games were amazing

[FinalEffect 2506]

HectorTheWellEndowed wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Can some explain to me who this guy is so i can find a reason to care about what he thinks about ME3's ending?

System Shock 2 and Bioshock.

Wait a minute. If I recall correctly Bioshock had only "two" endings. One for not harvesting the little sisters and the other for harvesting. The "neutral" ending, if you could call it that, was a redonebad ending with a slightly less angry toned doctor Tennenbaum (however you spell it). So much for the variation in that game's ending. You either stick to being completely good or bad to get any satisfaction out of it... Otherwise, well, it sucks to play the middle (you know what I mean). Now that I think about it. Didn't they cut the "neutral" dialogue out of ME3 in favor of just Paragon and Renegade options? I get that it was kinda irrelevant in ME1 and 2 since you didn't get much outta being neutral.

[Adanu]

TheChosen0ne wrote...

The dude should be saddened because all true fans were saddened by the disgusting ending

**** off with your ****ty assumptions and ignorant accusations.

[ReshyShira]

Did he even play mass effect 3?

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

lol, what an idiot.

He should upload a video on Youtube crying and screaming "LEAVE B-BIOWARE ALONE!"

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 23 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[Strategyking92]

He knows all about crappy endings; see Bioshock- andrew fontaine boss battle/ rushed abrupt ending.


I didn't think it was all that bad though, since I saved all the little sisters. A lot of people would disagree with me though, lol.

[Wolfva2]

mcsupersport wrote...

If you bought a Porsche from a dealer on Pre-Purchase and the Adverts for it said 400+HP V6 0-60MPH in 2.5 seconds, able to make a 1.5G turn, and what you recieved was a 150HP 4cyc, 0-60MPH in 9 9 seconds, and could barely go around a corner what would you do??  You still got a Porsche, so what would you think was fair??  Do you think you would write a letter to Porsche and complain??  Would you post a review of the new car and tell what you think about it??  Are you a Meanace if you do so??

A more accurate example is you buy the porsche, but in the advertizement it said, "And comes in a deep azure color!"  Upon delivery, you look at it and scream,  "AIEEE!  That's not azure!  That's SAPPHYRE!  I HATE Sapphyre!  How DARE they claime azure then sell me sapphyre!  i'm going to SUE!  I'm going to complain to the FCC!  I'm going to scream on the intrawebz and beat my chest and gnash my teeth for I have been CHEEEATTTTEEEDD!"  Granted, the car does everything else in the ad, but hey, it's not YOUR opinion of azure therefore they were lazy stupid workers who can't do everything right and thus must be punished.

The vocal minority gets heard.  And it is always a minority, why?  Because people only act when they feel strongly.  If you liked the ending, or thought the ending was suitable, you probably didn't start screaming about it.  You definately didn't call the FTC (Hello, gubmint?  I liked the game and I want YOU to do something about it!") nor would you call a lawyer.  You would just move on with your life because the game was over, maybe write a post about how you liked it.  Which would then get slammed by a bunch of angry people who didn't like it, to which you'd probably mutter, "This crap is NOT worth my time, I have a real life to lead." and you'd move on.

The problem is not, and never is, constructive criticism.  Constructive criticism is what has gotten us the quality of games we have now.  Baldur's Gate was a good game, for the time.  But because people had CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, Bioware was able to expand the concepts of relationships, morality decisions and choice in games to the point they are at today.  ME3 is a much deeper game then BG was.  However, way to many people allow emotion to take over.  They get mad because the ending wasn't what they wanted, and they lash out.  Lashing out is NOT helpful.  Any time your critique of a game involves insulting or demeaning the developers it is not going to be constructive.  Calling the devs lazy because you didn't like an ending?  Most people can't even comprehend just how much hard work goes into writng the story arcs and keeping them straight.  "Let's see, this is the story.  But what if Miranda died in ME2?  Well, then this is the direction the story goes but wait!  If she's dead, then this whole arc doesn't exist...or it does exist but only if that guy survived, what if the player made this decision, then that decision, then this other decision, how does that effect the arc?"  My god, I bet the story tree took up an entire wall.  Personally, I'd go insane trying to keep track of it.  Heck, I've been looking up on youtube for the results of decisions I didn't make and finding characters I forgot all about who aren't even in my game, like that green guy, Thale?  Whoever, he died in my ME2, none of his stuff is in my game.  Or Mirandas for that matter.  But I digress.

I used to be a poet.  Even been published.  I stopped when I realized that people were assigning meaning to my poems that ran contrary to what I wrote.  Those were MY words.  MY heart and soul that I poured into them.  What the eff is the point if someone else is going to twist them to mean something completely different.  I'll say this, you guys are DANG lucky I'm not the CEO of Bioware.  Besides having run the company into bankruptcy because I have no idea HOW to be a CEO, after all the negative attacks by a vocal minority I'd just say, "Screw it.  Don't like our games?  Ok.  We'll stop making them.  From now on it's Mario Kart and CS clones.  Here, go play some mediocre time wasting game with no real effort or decisions to make; a game that you'll forget 10 seconds after you're done because it's not worth it to put so much effort into something if people are gonna kvetch".

Remember, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism works.  Negative attacks?  Not so effective.  

[FatalX7.0]

Tazzmission wrote...

TheChosen0ne wrote...

The dude should be saddened because all true fans were saddened by the disgusting ending

 im a true fan and i agree with the man in the article


you dont speak for me when you say all mass effect fans feel the same as you do


i seriously am getting annoyed you think every fan agrees

QFT

[Calemyr]

The entire artist/consumer rights debate is a missing a major point - both sides are right. The artist has the right to make whatever the heck they like, while the consumer is free to buy and avoid whatever products strike a cord with them.

Where this falls down is that ME3 was sold as a bill of goods that the contents don't remotely resemble. It is everything they promised it could not be.

Bioware is perfectly free to make this "art", for want of a better word. You're free to buy it if it pleases you. But if they hold that line I'll never believe them again and I'll steer clear of their products from now on. I'll be sorry to see them go, but if they've chosen to value their artistic integrity above their professional integrity, there won't be much point in looking back anyways.

Modifié par Calemyr, 23 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[Darth_Ultima]

At first I was against them changing the ending even though I did not like it. But now since they have stated that they are adding stuff to clarify the ending instead of changing it I am going to have an open mind.

[FinalEffect 2506]

Calemyr wrote...

The entire artist/consumer rights debate is a missing a major point - both sides are right. The artist has the right to make whatever the heck they like, while the consumer is free to buy and avoid whatever products strike a cord with them.

Where this falls down is that ME3 was sold as a bill of goods that the contents don't remotely resemble. It is everything they promised it could not be.

Bioware is perfectly free to make this "art", for want of a better word. You're free to buy it if it pleases you. But if they hold that line I'll never believe them again and I'll steer clear of their products from now on. I'll be sorry to see them go, but if they've chosen to value their artistic integrity above their professional integrity, there won't be much point in looking back anyways.

Well, I could always hope they add dlc to (at the very least) explain the madness that is the current ending. The plot twist had no foreshadowing and was so sudden that I was taken aback by it. The original script had forshadowing in ME2. The only foreshadowing we recieved was in-game (during ME3) and only once. I was expecting something along that which we had some clue about or relation to. 

In my opinion, along the lines of the original script, the twist would have been that the Crucible would've destroyed the galaxy if it was activated. Provided it accelerated the advent that the Reapers predicted. In addition, a being doesn't have to be the master of a people. A reason (the protection of the galaxy from certain annihilation) could have been the "master" or motivation for the Reapers in the original script. And it would've fit the foreshadowing in ME3.

Modifié par FinalEffect 2506, 23 mars 2012 - 07:11 .