205 réponses à ce sujet

[Yukon Jake]

When the screenplay for Pretty Woman was written in the late 80's the ending had the prostitute and millionaire go their separate ways. She went back to being a prostitute and he went back to being a douche.

During production of the movie the studio essentially said that the ending was to dark and the interest of making an enjoyable movie that stimulates ticket sales they re-wrote the ending.

I love art and artists have my utmost respect. In many cases they are ahead of their time to the point where they die penniless. If artists want to turn a profit during their lifetime they have to make their craft more accessible to the rest of us.

I totally accept that the "Epic Hero" needs to die, but give me some closure regarding the crew I grew to love, and make me feel like my sacrifice was worth something.

[liggy002]

This is just pessimism at work here. Wait and see what Bioware comes up with and don't make any assumptions until then. Before the ending, the story was brilliantly written.

[Calemyr]

And if they make a genuine attempt to make sense of this "art", I'll make just as genuine an attempt to accept it.

Unfortunately I don't see how any level of "explanation" is going to remedy the core faults of the ending. It wouldn't change the fact that we our previous choices mean nothing. It wouldn't change the fact that our choice now means nothing more than which pretty color you view the end of the galaxy to. It wouldn't change the fact that we're not told the fate of anyone we know and love. To remedy these problems, the ending would NEED to be changed - maybe not thrown out, but at least fleshed out.

And if they really think some explanation will justify it all and make everything dandy, why the heck don't they just give it to us? You don't need a DLC to explain your vision, you just need to explain your vision. If the ending is not going to change at all, just tell us, here and now, why this ending doesn't suck, why Shep didn't just get the high score for galactic war crimes in one fell swoop, and how Joker bravely turning his tail and fleeing is not an insult to the Normandy and her crew. If all you want to do is explain, then DO IT. Otherwise, all you're after is more of my cash and I'm not going to be so free with that. Not anymore.

[Irx]

The guy is just jealous nobody cares about Bioshock ending.

[FinalEffect 2506]

Irxy wrote...

The guy is just jealous nobody cares about Bioshock ending.

If he is then he is worrying about the wrong things.
It was the immersion in a world gone wrong and atmosphere that made Bioshock great.

The ME franchise was about the immersion of choice and consequence (which is done with varying levels of success depending on perspective). Which is built up over the course of 3 games + dlc.

I can understand why some people would be shocked at the ending given significant time and monetary investment required to go through it all. Others are ok with it, but in the end do our choices matter? Will we see it in the sequel? Or will we be left in the dark trying to make sense of things as they are?

[DVZ]

I'm not surprised Ken Levine released this statement in support of Bioware. The Mass Effect 3 ending controversy has produced a schism between developers and fans. I think he (and other developers) are genuinely shocked at the response and scared the same may happen to them. We may be witnessing a new era in the gaming industry, partly due to the rise in social media usage, in which fan feedback can alter the outcome of a product. Fans will have more bite because they now have outlets to voice their disapproval, which was once the sole luxury of magazine publishers and the larger websites. This disapproval can affect sales, which in turn will influence shareholders to put pressure on developers. I can appreciate why Levine and his colleagues don't want that, but they should entirely expect it if they promise one thing and deliver something else entirely.

Levine's comparison to Harry Potter is moot. 1) JK Rowling didn't make promises she didn't keep. 2) The series doesn't end with a bunch of plot holes or contain ridiculous plot devices that aren't even referenced until that one scene. 3) A book is an entirely different medium to a game; Harry Potter isn't interactive the way Mass Effect is, nor do our individual choices influence Harry's actions like they do Commander Shepard. User involvement in ME is on a whole other level, therefore the negative response is going to be considerably greater.

[Rockworm503]

Irxy wrote...

The guy is just jealous nobody cares about Bioshock ending.

I'm just going to say it.
I think Bioshock had a better story than all 3 ME games.

[Kandid001]

Bioshock creator can cry me a river and stop commenting about things he doesn't understand.

[Tazzmission]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Irxy wrote...

The guy is just jealous nobody cares about Bioshock ending.

I'm just going to say it.
I think Bioshock had a better story than all 3 ME games.

sorry but i dont think so

i refuse to play part 2 because imo it didnt need a 2nd game


yea the first bioshock has a great story but can you honestly say anything in that game made you feel something similar to mass effect?

[djspectre]

I loved the first BioShock game (despite it's blatant copy of System Shock series), but still, he's rooting for the artists that made this.

Though I don't agree with him. Writers, designers are supposed to be original in all they do....that's the freedom of being an artist, right? BUT, when contracted to fulfill someone else's vision (Biowares), you must still put that passion in without losing sight of the theme.

Writing a trilogy of games is no different than a trilogy of movies, except that most movies don't greenlight a sequel till after the previous one makes the company money.

ME was envisioned as a trilogy, which means that I don't see how the 'vision' could have been lost unless they allowed outside influence to act on them: enter EA.

ME1 was developed entirely by Bioware...they weren't part of EA at that point. ME2 was being developed when they joined EA, but EA left Bioware alone, management wise, since the property wasn't entirely theirs yet. But ME3 was wholly overseen by EA which is known for a lot of ****** poor titles and the yearly grind of Madden games to keep them afloat.

And what we got was Sheppard meets NFL as far as quality of a game went. Madden games typically aren't revolutionary, they are just highly accurate. It's hard to tell one game from the previous one, mainly because of the limitations of the consoles those games are released on.

The design technique used in the sports games relies heavily on simply avoiding texture layers, sound layers and other 'depth-of-art/immersion' techniques in favor of simply drawing more detail on a single layer (ME3) because that's all consoles can handle.

PC gamers are immediately aware of this fact because we are used to the intense layering of gaming because our gaming rigs are in a constant state of flux and upgrade, unlike consoles which are fixed for up to a near decade at a time. All of which results in a poor looking game by PC gamers standards.

Why did I mention that? Because it's more than the graphics that suffered here. The gaming design model that EA has employed over the last 3 decades (anyone remember The Immortal for the NES?) has been console based....not PC based. Bioware started as a PC-ONLY gaming company.

Baulders Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic....all hits....all PC ONLY games.

EA cheapened the Bioware brand by forcing them to conform to these idioticly bland console ideals ( no offense to console gamers). ME1 took a while to load maps and missions...why? because it was loading TEXTURES! ME3 loads nearly instantaneously despite being a new game (a phenomenon that simply does NOT occur as newer PC games are released) because they lowered the graphical quality to match the ridiculous console-based texturing models that are stubstandard by PC players.

THE SHORT VERSION:
EA is a Console gaming company. Bioware was a PC gaming company. EA thought it's gaming model could carry over to the PC world despite having the worst track record in PC gaming of any company in the last decade and we got DA2 and ME3 for their efforts.

I don't blame Bioware, they were simply trying to keep their jobs by obeying EA, but in the end all of us got a substandard product, graphically, sound-wise and plot wise.

After all, why worry about a plot when Madden 2021 will sell like hotcakes anyway, right?

[Tazzmission]

Kandid001 wrote...

Bioshock creator can cry me a river and stop commenting about things he doesn't understand.

he understands.

just because you dont agree with him dosent mean he dosent know squat

the man makes games for a living and what do you do?

who are you to say he isnt correct in a buisness he works in?

[Rockworm503]

Tazzmission wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Irxy wrote...

The guy is just jealous nobody cares about Bioshock ending.

I'm just going to say it.
I think Bioshock had a better story than all 3 ME games.

sorry but i dont think so

i refuse to play part 2 because imo it didnt need a 2nd game


yea the first bioshock has a great story but can you honestly say anything in that game made you feel something similar to mass effect?

You don't have to agree with me but don't twist it like that.
I said story not emotional impact.
I'm more invested in ME than Bioshock.  But I can't deny what Bioshock did right.

[djspectre]

Tazzmission wrote...

Kandid001 wrote...

Bioshock creator can cry me a river and stop commenting about things he doesn't understand.

he understands.

just because you dont agree with him dosent mean he dosent know squat

the man makes games for a living and what do you do?

who are you to say he isnt correct in a buisness he works in?

I'm the guy who makes his job possible. I'm called a fan and a customer. If I don't buy his games or like his games, he has no job. FYI, Bioshock 2 was universally panned (by critics and fans) as inferior to Bioshock 1, honestly this cat has no room to talk about quality of sequels. 

[Rockworm503]

Tazzmission wrote...

Kandid001 wrote...

Bioshock creator can cry me a river and stop commenting about things he doesn't understand.

he understands.

just because you dont agree with him dosent mean he dosent know squat

the man makes games for a living and what do you do?

who are you to say he isnt correct in a buisness he works in?

Thats right folks we're not allowed opinions because we don't make games.
You really should think before you click submit.
He's talking about a different style of game from his own.
As awesome as I no doubt Infinite will be its not a 3rd part of a trilogy.  Its not a game based on our decision its a first person shooter.
He clearly didn't play ME3 and basing what he hopes doesn't come to him later.
Lavine has nothing to worry about so long as he doesn't make a big promise about the game and then not deliver.

[Tazzmission]

djspectre wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Kandid001 wrote...

Bioshock creator can cry me a river and stop commenting about things he doesn't understand.

he understands.

just because you dont agree with him dosent mean he dosent know squat

the man makes games for a living and what do you do?

who are you to say he isnt correct in a buisness he works in?

I'm the guy who makes his job possible. I'm called a fan and a customer. If I don't buy his games or like his games, he has no job. FYI, Bioshock 2 was universally panned (by critics and fans) as inferior to Bioshock 1, honestly this cat has no room to talk about quality of sequels. 

your just one fan though

he could lose you as 1 single fan  and gain a additional 5 new ones.


just because the guy feels the way he does dosent mean you go out and say he dosent know what he's talking about

ive also been seeing alot of threads arguing that games arent art ok newsflash people even the federal goverment has stated games are art

if you have an issue with that call your congressman otherwise just stop wile your ahead

[Kandid001]

Tazzmission wrote...

he understands.

just because you dont agree with him dosent mean he dosent know squat

the man makes games for a living and what do you do?

who are you to say he isnt correct in a buisness he works in?

Might as well take down BSN because last time I looked most of us don't "make games for a living".

Designers and players have completely different perspectives, they want us to buy their games and we want to play good games. As for this guy, it's obvious that he either didn't play the Mass Effect saga or he didn't get it.

[Kandid001]

Tazzmission wrote...

ive also been seeing alot of threads arguing that games arent art ok newsflash people even the federal goverment has stated games are art

if you have an issue with that call your congressman otherwise just stop wile your ahead

It's for taxes and ****. Don't be so naive.

As far as I'm concerned, 95% of music and films are not art, but surely all of them are recognized as art on legal ground.

Modifié par Kandid001, 23 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[Silasqtx]

Tazzmission wrote...
 im a true fan and i agree with the man in the article
you dont speak for me when you say all mass effect fans feel the same as you do
i seriously am getting annoyed you think every fan agrees

We're annoyed that you always point that out even if a 4 years old child KNOWS that we're talking on behalf of the dissatisfied fans, period. You seem to be the only one who's not getting the picture.

Plus he's talking about the Bioshock ending, which sucked big time.

Modifié par Silasqtx, 23 mars 2012 - 07:48 .

[Tazzmission]

Silasqtx wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
 im a true fan and i agree with the man in the article
you dont speak for me when you say all mass effect fans feel the same as you do
i seriously am getting annoyed you think every fan agrees

We're annoyed that you always point that out even if a 4 years old child KNOWS that we're talking on behalf of the dissatisfied fans, period. You seem to be the only one who's not getting the picture.

Plus he's talking about the Bioshock ending, which sucked big time.

do you really want to go that route mr i want my money back from childs play?

wile i bring that up i cant believe how selfish you people are


demanding they pay you back knowing full well those kids need it


i knew you people would pull something like this and thank god i didnt trust you with my money because i wouldnt want to be labeled as i agree with you


and i hope you realize i took all that information and gave it to a few other sites because i dont care how mad you are you dont use sick kids as a way to make a movment work expecially for a videogame

Modifié par Tazzmission, 23 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[Rockworm503]

Tazzmission wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
 im a true fan and i agree with the man in the article
you dont speak for me when you say all mass effect fans feel the same as you do
i seriously am getting annoyed you think every fan agrees

We're annoyed that you always point that out even if a 4 years old child KNOWS that we're talking on behalf of the dissatisfied fans, period. You seem to be the only one who's not getting the picture.

Plus he's talking about the Bioshock ending, which sucked big time.

do you really want to go that route mr i want my money back from childs play?

wile i bring that up i cant believe how selfish you people are


demanding they pay you back

We're really going ot do the paint everyone in the same generalization brush route again?

Oh yeah thats right you guys complained to childs play wanting the charity gone.
Thats right you rather see sick children suffer just because you don't agree with us.

How am I doing?  enough hyperbole for ya?

[Irx]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I'm just going to say it.
I think Bioshock had a better story than all 3 ME games.

I'm not debating that. Well, its more original - but far less complex and totally linear.
And as a huge system shock fan, I was really dissapointed with bioshock, mostly for gameplay reasons.

The point is, bioshock does not have the huge crowds of fans who care.

[Exia001]

I think Taz misses the point:

For me it isn't the fact the endings are ****e strictly speaking, its that they barefaced lied about it.

Widly changing endings: No
Closure: No
Not like Lost: No
All ends wrapped up: New ends created

By your definition Taz, people that aint politians shouldnt have a say in how the country is run, or people that arn't policeman should'nt ptotect their community

[Rockworm503]

Exia001 wrote...

I think Taz misses the point:

For me it isn't the fact the endings are ****e strictly speaking, its that they barefaced lied about it.

Widly changing endings: No
Closure: No
Not like Lost: No
All ends wrapped up: New ends created

By your definition Taz, people that aint politians shouldnt have a say in how the country is run, or people that arn't policeman should'nt ptotect their community

Don't worry Taz is master at missing the point.
Or he just flats out ignores it because in his eyes if your not worshipping Bioware then your selfish and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

[Tazzmission]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I think Taz misses the point:

For me it isn't the fact the endings are ****e strictly speaking, its that they barefaced lied about it.

Widly changing endings: No
Closure: No
Not like Lost: No
All ends wrapped up: New ends created

By your definition Taz, people that aint politians shouldnt have a say in how the country is run, or people that arn't policeman should'nt ptotect their community

Don't worry Taz is master at missing the point.
Or he just flats out ignores it because in his eyes if your not worshipping Bioware then your selfish and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

you know what.........


you people have to live with this on your shoulders and if you think thats a good thing well i hope your happy because as of right now you people have destroyed the gaming community and give every gamer a bad name

im done now because if i dont walk away now ill say something i will really regret

you people should be ashamed

Modifié par Tazzmission, 23 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Rockworm503]

Tazzmission wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I think Taz misses the point:

For me it isn't the fact the endings are ****e strictly speaking, its that they barefaced lied about it.

Widly changing endings: No
Closure: No
Not like Lost: No
All ends wrapped up: New ends created

By your definition Taz, people that aint politians shouldnt have a say in how the country is run, or people that arn't policeman should'nt ptotect their community

Don't worry Taz is master at missing the point.
Or he just flats out ignores it because in his eyes if your not worshipping Bioware then your selfish and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

so you agree people should get there money back after they donated it?

if you say yes than im sorry then i have every right to call you out on it


regardless if you agree or not you still represent them dont you?

that alone puts you in the same catagory for being basicly mentioned 

um.... uh..... wow you are insane.
No sersiously I don't want to insult insane people calling you that.
NVM sorry insane people.

Seriously any chance of me ever speaking to you again is over.
I cannot take you seriously.
This is worst post anyone has sent my way ever.