205 réponses à ce sujet

[Exia001]

Tazzmission wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I think Taz misses the point:

For me it isn't the fact the endings are ****e strictly speaking, its that they barefaced lied about it.

Widly changing endings: No
Closure: No
Not like Lost: No
All ends wrapped up: New ends created

By your definition Taz, people that aint politians shouldnt have a say in how the country is run, or people that arn't policeman should'nt ptotect their community

Don't worry Taz is master at missing the point.
Or he just flats out ignores it because in his eyes if your not worshipping Bioware then your selfish and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

so you agree people should get there money back after they donated it?

if you say yes than im sorry then i have every right to call you out on it


regardless if you agree or not you still represent them dont you?

that alone puts you in the same catagory for being basicly mentioned 

So because I hate the endings while loving 99.9% of the series, and I want them expanded on Im the same as someone who demands money back from a Charity?

**** you sir, **** you

[Kandid001]

You were going great until the last few post, but please play nice.

[Rockworm503]

Ignore Taz he is obviously a troll.

[Vergil_dgk]

Zatou wrote...

What a shame.

http://www.gamespot....roversy-6367350

Just the so-called "art" defense again. It's incredible to me that the greatest work of art these guys can invoke is "Harrry Potter". Does no-one in this industry read genuinely great books like "War and Peace" or "the Sun also Rises"? If they did, they would know that both those masterworks went through a number of revisions after publication - both in order to please the public and due to the changing visions of their authors. As works of art, Mass Effect or Bioshock are much lesser entities. Surely they can go through similar changes to truly great art. Levine would do better to adress the failure of the ending than the people asking for it to be changed.

[corporal doody]

DominusVita wrote...

Levine said fans will be let down if BioWare decides to craft a different ending to Mass Effect 3. He added that if the studio does design an alternate ending, neither BioWare nor fans will be satisfied.

I understand where Mr. Levine is coming from, but I disagree. This has happened before, and I wouldn't say they were dissapointed with the result.

i gotta agree with this. Evangelion "endings" made me scratch my head.

ME3...they dont need to CHANGE the ending....they just need to FIX it.  

[SystemsAlliance]

First, it's OK for the sake of the art or everything, for Bioware to create a horrible ending. But, it's OK also for customers. who is the lifeline of Bioware, to criticize and hate Bioware's ending, and will reduce customer's satisfaction for Bioware (and maybe for EA)'s product for years to come.

Secondly, Bioware has promised us lots of things and lots of things. To be honest, we are all "blinded" by Bioware's advertising and previews. We are expecting an excellent story, as been in ME 1 and ME 2, as also been promised by Casey. We expect a conclusion of all three games, a closing epic war, to end all wars. But what do we got? Customers has the every right to complain Bioware, for false advertising.

Third. this is also an important point for games industry, for large companies, to start respecting the customers. Although we are "only" customers, we have demands, and we will not just accept a faulty product. Because we can't return our games, we can demand a reparation of this faulty product, which is demanded now for us.

[Sevorast]

Hilarious seeing all these idiots(the other developers and so called reviewers, not the posters here on the forums) posting articles about how terrible it would be for games and gaming in general if bioware gives us a good ending... Like it sets some horrible precedent that game companies will have to 'pander' to fans. They seem to be trying to make it out as if trying to keep your loyal fans happy AND STILL LOYAL is a bad thing somehow, and we as fans are somehow bad people for wanting to hold a company to their word. Yes we are terrible people because we want an ending that actually makes sense when taken in context of the whole story... how dare we!

As for changing or adding to the ending well it has already been done anyway, see Fallout 3: Broken Steel as the biggest example.

[BenjaminR00]

DVZ wrote...

I'm not surprised Ken Levine released this statement in support of Bioware. The Mass Effect 3 ending controversy has produced a schism between developers and fans. I think he (and other developers) are genuinely shocked at the response and scared the same may happen to them. We may be witnessing a new era in the gaming industry, partly due to the rise in social media usage, in which fan feedback can alter the outcome of a product. Fans will have more bite because they now have outlets to voice their disapproval, which was once the sole luxury of magazine publishers and the larger websites. This disapproval can affect sales, which in turn will influence shareholders to put pressure on developers. I can appreciate why Levine and his colleagues don't want that, but they should entirely expect it if they promise one thing and deliver something else entirely.

Levine's comparison to Harry Potter is moot. 1) JK Rowling didn't make promises she didn't keep. 2) The series doesn't end with a bunch of plot holes or contain ridiculous plot devices that aren't even referenced until that one scene. 3) A book is an entirely different medium to a game; Harry Potter isn't interactive the way Mass Effect is, nor do our individual choices influence Harry's actions like they do Commander Shepard. User involvement in ME is on a whole other level, therefore the negative response is going to be considerably greater.

Yup. You are right. His compaison was turgid and fanciful to say the least... I think he doesn't actually 'get it'. We don't know if he has even had time to play Mass Effect 3.

As much as a like Ken Levine and think he is a thoughtful guy, he doesn't know what he is talking about here. Also, I don't think people are going to have the same reaction to Bioshock Infinite because it is a linear plot and I have a lot more confidence in his creativity than *cough* he who must not be named *cough*

So he is overblowing this. He doesn't need to comment on the retake me3 movement nor characterise it, he just needs to focus on making his game fun. I'm looking forward to playing it, myself 

Modifié par BenjaminR00, 23 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

I read about the article, and it seems he doesn't now the difference between an role playing game and a book.

[Uriko128]

 I like the ending. No spoilers allowed but... Sorry if u expected candy rain at the end of ME3!

[Caz Tirin]

"If computer games are art then I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen,"
Barnett said.

While I fully agree with Barnett, the artist and the critics must also accept that the fans are going to be upset when the artist takes their masterpiece they've been creating for years and gives it a few too many "love taps" with a sledgehammer.  You can't say "the artist should have the last say in their piece" and dismiss the outcry from the viewers who just watched Mona Lisa get torched.  Not sure how else to say that.

As for Levine's opinion on the matter....

"I think if those people got what they wanted and [BioWare] wrote their
ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling they got
because…they didn't really create it," he said.

Because we spent 100+ hours "creating" a meaningful character  and story through our choices and playstyle only to have someone else throw all of that in the dumpster for a poorly canned pseudo-ending and that didn't leave us disappointed.  owate...

[Plasma Prestige]

 One good point Levine makes is that everyone will be sad in the end. Bioware didn't actually create the ending, so they won't be happy, and the fans won't be happy because it wasn't what we were looking for.

[Zalbik]

Uriko128 wrote...

 I like the ending. No spoilers allowed but... Sorry if u expected candy rain at the end of ME3!

We got candy rain at the end colored red, green and blue

[Heather Cline]

I respect the bioshock creators take on this but I disagree with him and therefore will not let up pressure about the ending of ME3 or the lies we were fed.

[Gigamantis]

Obviously the guy who wrote this article is 100% right. You can't talk to the children in this community about adult topics like artistic integrity, though, it just falls on deaf ears.

I just hate that all gamers get lumped in with the obtuse vocal minority.

[Caz Tirin]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

 One good point Levine makes is that everyone will be sad in the end. Bioware didn't actually create the ending, so they won't be happy, and the fans won't be happy because it wasn't what we were looking for.

I disagree.  BioWare could make right what they screwed up and the fans (most of us) would be happy with the result.  What is actually going to happen, however, is yet to be seen.

[Caz Tirin]

Gigamantis wrote...

Obviously the guy who wrote this article is 100% right. You can't talk to the children in this community about adult topics like artistic integrity, though, it just falls on deaf ears.

I just hate that all gamers get lumped in with the obtuse vocal minority.

As an artist myself, I take personal insult to your insinuation.  The ending was not artistic at all.  It was a complete farce and a total contradiction to everything we, the fans, were promised over the years.  Pretty lights don't make something artistic intrinsicly.

[kkr]

As a faithful fan to bioware, and as a person who believes in the fact that mistakes and oversights are almost unavoidable on projects the scale of mass effect 3, I feel that it is crucial that i stand on both sides of the field with both the developers on one side and the fans on the other. (1) On the first side (the developers), I feel that it is in the end the developers who have the last words in the making of their creation, and that the fans should have respectfully and kindly requested additional endings instead of trying to violate a companies as well as individual free will by demanding ,with little to no respect at the behest of the fans for such a outstanding game series, they create new endings.(2) On the other side (the fans), I believe that the mass effect franchise is not a simple collaboration of games, but an individual experience for each and every gamer. For this reason, I believe that the fans are not as outraged as they seem, but confused, saddened, and believe it or not heartsick that the endings were what they were, very identical and spotted with uncertainty. The fans would love descent closure to multiple oversights in many different ways, whether it be to only correct the issue of the plot holes, insure more hope, or for those who are inclined to be stubborn and a little unrealistic (myself included) wanted an ending that had Shepard and his/her friends( including love interest) survive, go to a bar, get treated like the heroes they are and get blind drunk because of their victory over the reapers. I speak for all the fans, who will allow me to speak for them, when I say that as the fans who still respect the staff of bioware we ask bioware with all possible kindness of them to consider the idea of refined endings. Even if this ideology is not considered, I KeAaron Roberts would like to thank any bioware staff member and fan for reading the perspectives of just one simple Mass Effect fan.

[kkr]

I think everyone who is opposing the thought of the endings needs to take a minute and relax. I humbly ask all fans to be a little more considerate to the developers especially, Mr. Casey Hudson, for even considering fans important enough to listen to. I also have stated before on a different forum and will state now on this forum a vast majority of fans have approached the developers in the wrong way. I believed the fans should have asked the developers kindly, instead of instigating a petition to force people to edit their work on an extraordinary game series, even though many will judge this course of action as being meager and soft. I am not condemning anyone’s ideas or attempt to bring shame down upon anyone, I just believe that a compromise among the developers and fans should be civil and, to some degree, friendly. I would also like to personally thank any Bioware staff members and fans for reading the perspectives of just another simple uncomplicated fan.

[Gigamantis]

Caz Tirin wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Obviously the guy who wrote this article is 100% right. You can't talk to the children in this community about adult topics like artistic integrity, though, it just falls on deaf ears.

I just hate that all gamers get lumped in with the obtuse vocal minority.

As an artist myself, I take personal insult to your insinuation.  The ending was not artistic at all.  It was a complete farce and a total contradiction to everything we, the fans, were promised over the years.  Pretty lights don't make something artistic intrinsicly.

If you're an artist you should understand that your subjective opinion and made up promises aren't a valid method for gauging artistic integrity.  An artist with integrity is someone who stands by his vision, because everyone will have an opinion of what they think you "should" be doing.  In the end it's your work and if you have any integrity it will remain your work. 

I think a lot of you just say you're artists because you think it makes your point for you.  You don't sound like someone who's ever created anything that would require integrity to maintain. 

Modifié par Gigamantis, 25 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[KotorEffect3]

Tazzmission wrote...

TheChosen0ne wrote...

The dude should be saddened because all true fans were saddened by the disgusting ending

 im a true fan and i agree with the man in the article


you dont speak for me when you say all mass effect fans feel the same as you do


i seriously am getting annoyed you think every fan agrees

agreed

[Caz Tirin]

Gigamantis wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Obviously the guy who wrote this article is 100% right. You can't talk to the children in this community about adult topics like artistic integrity, though, it just falls on deaf ears.

I just hate that all gamers get lumped in with the obtuse vocal minority.

As an artist myself, I take personal insult to your insinuation.  The ending was not artistic at all.  It was a complete farce and a total contradiction to everything we, the fans, were promised over the years.  Pretty lights don't make something artistic intrinsicly.

If you're an artist you should understand that your subjective opinion and made up promises aren't a valid method for gauging artistic integrity.  An artist with integrity is someone who stands by his vision, because everyone will have an opinion of what they think you "should" be doing.  In the end it's your work and if you have any integrity it will remain your work. 

I think a lot of you just say you're artists because you think it makes your point for you.  You don't sound like someone who's ever created anything that would require integrity to maintain. 

Made up promises?  You must be new to the forums.  There's plenty of threads quoting the devs' promises over the years.

And part of artistic integrity that "armchair critiques" always leave out is keeping true to the promises you make to your fans and clients.  The fact that the vision, as laid out by BioWare interviews and commentary over the years, was not held to, in your own misaligned judgement of what artistic integrity is, still leaves them lacking.

As for assuming someone isn't an artist, I would love to know how you could prove that my paintings haven't sold as I sit here looking at a several checks resulting from said paintings.  But that wouldn't fit into your little box that lets you insult people, would it?

[PrinceLionheart]

daftPirate wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

"If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," Barnett said. "Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I don't think she should be forced to make another one."

What kind of nonsense is that. No one is forcing Bioware to do anything lol. If JK Rowling blew up Harry Potter and the whole cast in an ending and everyone hated it they'd just say 'wow that was utter crap.' And not buy her books. What a strange analogy.

Over and above that JK Rowling isn't selling a piece of interactive media where it's 'your story, and your decisions matter.' PLUS, they can change the game with a pre-established DLC system which they already planned to do.

All this wishy washy artistic license stuff is just stupid. It's a product, you're paying your writers to write a story, to sell as part of an overall product. Sometimes it goes wrong, change it if it makes business sense.  Cut the artistic fluff - does your Finance Director care about that? lol.  If 100,000 people said wow we really hate the color of tali's costume, they'd just say ok we'll change it (probably?).

That absolutely wouldn't happen. People have invested far more time in Harry Potter than MassEffect, and if J.K. Rowling ended her series by blwing up Harry Potter, the outrage would be the same if not worse. 

Not to mention, if BioWare wasn't being forced to create ending DLC, why would they? If it wasn't part of their plan, and they are in no way being forced to make, why would they possibly do it? Fact is, they are  being forced. Fan movements are raising tens of thousands of dollars and boycotting BioWare and EA products as well as some members of those movements smearing forums with hateful and derogatory things.

Really, because Bioware sure had no qualms putting a big fat ad at the end of the freaking credits saying "Get the Future DLC." Bioware isn't being forced to do anything.

[AKoreanEtude]

Good find. Thanks, OP. Nice to have another viewpoint on the matter, especially from someone else in high-standing in the gaming industry