Aller au contenu

Photo

Broken Promises Regarding the Mass Effect 3 Endings


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
86 réponses à ce sujet

#1
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages
I posted this as a comment in the endings feedback thread, but a few people suggested I make it its own topic, so here you go:

---

What follows is a list of various quotes regarding Mass Effect 3 and, in particular, the endings and how player choice will affect them.  I think you will find these very interesting when compared to the actual ending.  Each quote also includes a source.  I haven't confirmed that all of these sources still exist, so apologies if any of since been removed.


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other,
where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people “


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.

Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to
confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what
civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game
ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”


Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade....ing-a-trilogy-a

“I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the most satisfying of any game I’ve ever played….the decisions you make in this game are epic,”

“The team has been planning for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise. Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for years and years. They’ve thought about [the ending] for years and years. It’s not something they’ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but over the course of
five or ten years.”

---

It's actually really impressive how basically none of that is true.

And I realize that BioWare has just announced that a new ending was coming to Mass Effect 3, but as of yet details are scarce and the fact that they didn't already announce it was free is a bit foreboding, so I think all of the above still apply.

This post will probably be deleted before too long, so enjoy it while you can.

Anyway, I guess the point of this all is that, if you really want to know why fans are angry, look no further than the quotes above (and these were by no means the only ones).  When you make a ton of promises about your title, you're expected to fulfill them.  When you don't, your loyal fans who have been playing your games for over a decade lose faith in you.  And trust in today's gaming industry is a hard thing to come by.

Modifié par improperdancing, 23 mars 2012 - 05:32 .


#2
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages
Fixed the spacing.

#3
yejo

yejo
  • Members
  • 66 messages
“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what
civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

This one is the only one that is actually true, seeing as this is wat you are doing throughout the game and has nothing to do with the ending.

#4
Cyruge

Cyruge
  • Members
  • 145 messages
The amount of lies almost makes me cry.

#5
TheMadBlimper

TheMadBlimper
  • Members
  • 336 messages
This is honestly what upsets me the most.

Either BioWare deliberately lied about how they were going to end their series, or they have something else up their sleeves.

#6
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages

TheMadBlimper wrote...

This is honestly what upsets me the most.

Either BioWare deliberately lied about how they were going to end their series, or they have something else up their sleeves.


The real question is which is worse: deliberate lies or charging us money for the ending they actually promised via DLC.

#7
Dawson14

Dawson14
  • Members
  • 219 messages
Wow, that is a lot of misleading information....

#8
Mage One

Mage One
  • Members
  • 229 messages
Well, according to the Final Hours app, they still didn't know what they were going do for the ending while they were saying all this. Sad, really.

#9
Guest_Opsrbest_*

Guest_Opsrbest_*
  • Guests
how sad that the incorporation of this thread didn't reach anything over 1 page.

For shame RTM. For shame.

#10
Corrik Ronis

Corrik Ronis
  • Members
  • 367 messages
It always saddens me to see this information.

Hold the line.

#11
Draemian

Draemian
  • Members
  • 23 messages
I know lots of people are upset over the endings in terms of whos fault it was and why it happened, but personally if they fix the endings close enough
http://i.imgur.com/eMYVd.jpg
(doesn't look like they will outright change the endings)
I won't care who or why as long as something good enough is done

#12
Cross429

Cross429
  • Members
  • 72 messages
Bravo.

Unless they're planning on Indoctrination theory - which I still say woud be awesome - they have some 'splainin to do. I can't believe that they'd claim "artistic integrity" in light of the above - given that the current single ending contradicts it by their own terms - unless they have an ace up their sleeve.

#13
Guest_StaticSpine_*

Guest_StaticSpine_*
  • Guests
Thanks for the great work on this compilation!

#14
Greed1914

Greed1914
  • Members
  • 2 638 messages

improperdancing wrote...

TheMadBlimper wrote...

This is honestly what upsets me the most.

Either BioWare deliberately lied about how they were going to end their series, or they have something else up their sleeves.


The real question is which is worse: deliberate lies or charging us money for the ending they actually promised via DLC.


Probably option 1.  While deliberately leaving the ending out would be bad, at least it would leave us with, well, this.

#15
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages
I think that what BioWare and the minority of fans who liked the ending need to realize is: THIS is why we are angry. We were promised something for months by BioWare and they completely and utterly failed to deliver on those promises. As a result, the fans felt betrayed.

As I said in another topic, trust is difficult to gain but easy to lose. BioWare built our trust over the past decade and a half by releasing plenty of great games, most recently Knights of the Old Republic and the original Mass Effect.

However, between Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 (and apparently The Old Rebublic, although I can't speak to that one personally as I have no interest in MMOs), day-one DLC, and obviously rushed products, they are quickly losing all of the trust and good will that they garnered from us over the years.

That this trust began to erode after the acquisition of BioWare by EA is beside the point. I don't care who owns the company. All I care about is the quality of the games, and that quality seems to be going downhill.

I loved Mass Effect 2. It stripped away some of the RPG elements from the first game, but I was totally willing to forgive it that because the gameplay was so much more fun and fluid. And while the story wasn't quite as powerful as the one in the first game, the world felt so much bigger and more realized. The sidequests weren't just the same rooms over and over again cut and pasted, but instead were each fully realized. And, of course, the party members and their individual quests were spectacular.

Which brings us to Mass Effect 3. Up until Priority: Earth, the main quest did everything right. It was everything else that felt like it was lacking quality. There were only a handful of actual sidequests, each of which inexplicably brought back a character from Mass Effect 2. The party size was drastically reduced, leaving you with only about five people to choose from (and you could pretty much remove Vega since he was an awful character). The multi-player maps were cheaply re-used as out-of-place single-player missions with obviously strange level design. And the OCD scanning from ME2 was replaced with boring fetch quests that didn't really make a whole lot of sense. Really, the only positive note aside from the main quest was the combat, which was a step above that offered in ME2, which was already very good.

Basically, the main plot aside, the game felt incredibly rushed. I know the main focus is on the ending, and rightfully so, but I think that the other problems with the game need to quit being overlooked.

And as such, BioWare is quickly losing my trust. I'm not sure I'll ever buy another title from them, and that's a shame, as prior to the releases of Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 they were one of my favorite developers. And it's truly sad to see another once-great developer cave in to nickle-and-diming their customers to the point of oblivion.

But hey, at least we've still got Valve (for now).

#16
Sir Hecubus

Sir Hecubus
  • Members
  • 64 messages

Greed1914 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

TheMadBlimper wrote...

This is honestly what upsets me the most.

Either BioWare deliberately lied about how they were going to end their series, or they have something else up their sleeves.


The real question is which is worse: deliberate lies or charging us money for the ending they actually promised via DLC.


Probably option 1.  While deliberately leaving the ending out would be bad, at least it would leave us with, well, this.


I tend to agree option 1 is worse, and I get the feeling that is what we will be left with. 

If the ending was rushed and they didn't have time why not say so?  Just admiting you made a mistake can go a long way.  We as video game fans have been let down on a few occasions(some more than others depending on one's opinion)  I know for me i got the same feeling when i beat Halo 2.  It was "that's it"?  Where is the rest of the game?

I was exited running down towards the Crucible/Citadel and then was totally let down. I was pumped for a final showdown and was left with pick a b or c.  The least they could have done was allow me to not pick any of those 3 and just fight it out with the reapers and whoever wins, wins. I wouldn't care if I lost to the reapers, I didn't get enough ems etc to win, that was my choice, and that directrly impacted the end.  How hard would that have been?

No matter how you slice it, wether it was planned to use the indoc theory, or working as intended, the ending itself is such a waste to an otherwise great game.  so either you are stuck with a bad ending or left with an incomplete game that will be available through DLC to finish it. Both options are insulting.

Bioware you dissapointed me, you pretty much lied about the ending, and that is what makes it worse.  If they just said in interview that they worked hard on this series and it's coming to a close,  and that they hope people will enjoy the conclusion. People would probably still not like the ending and be upset but i think the lies are what made it worse.  You can't say you won't do something in your game and the proceed to do exactly that and expect fans to ignore it.

Great series but a dissapointing ending.

#17
tookrunk1991

tookrunk1991
  • Members
  • 27 messages
Why on earth would they make all those statements.... and then give us the ending they gave us.... that is pure BS... hopefully dlc ending will be better... and free

#18
gecko360

gecko360
  • Members
  • 9 messages
Buuuump dah false advertising.

#19
Leem_0001

Leem_0001
  • Members
  • 565 messages
Bumpedy-bump-bump-bump.

I would really like if Bioware, instead of the PR statements we are getting, actually got involved in some kind of discussion with us, and responded to how they have gone back on earlier promises.

#20
Jackal7713

Jackal7713
  • Members
  • 1 661 messages

Leem_0001 wrote...

Bumpedy-bump-bump-bump.

I would really like if Bioware, instead of the PR statements we are getting, actually got involved in some kind of discussion with us, and responded to how they have gone back on earlier promises.

Didn't you know its about "artist integrity"?  

Modifié par Jackal7713, 26 mars 2012 - 07:47 .


#21
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages

Jackal7713 wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Bumpedy-bump-bump-bump.

I would really like if Bioware, instead of the PR statements we are getting, actually got involved in some kind of discussion with us, and responded to how they have gone back on earlier promises.

Didn't you know its about "artist integrity"?  


Yes, BioWare does love to hide behind the "artistic integrity" shield.  I'm of the opinion that, when you intentionally leave out a character that's crucial to the plot (Javik) in order to sell it to players for ten bucks on day one, you forfeit all rights to claim artistic integrity.

Also, on an unrelated note, here is a Mass Effect 3 ending that would have been a million times better than the one we got:  www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par improperdancing, 26 mars 2012 - 11:41 .


#22
gecko360

gecko360
  • Members
  • 9 messages
We need these promises on the front page of Bioware.com for all to see

#23
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages

gecko360 wrote...

We need these promises on the front page of Bioware.com for all to see


Good luck with that.  I'm just amazed this topic is still open.  Small victories.

#24
improperdancing

improperdancing
  • Members
  • 162 messages

tookrunk1991 wrote...

Why on earth would they make all those statements.... and then give us the ending they gave us.... that is pure BS... hopefully dlc ending will be better... and free


That's the question everyone wants to know the answer to.

It really could have been any number of reasons.

1. They actually thought this was a fitting end to the series (least likely).
2. They decided they wanted to keep making Mass Effect games and thus kept the endings open.
3. EA forced a strict deadline on them and the end of the game suffered as a result.
4. One or two higher-ups in BioWare decided to take it upon themselves to write the ending without consulting the rest fo the writing team.
5. They decided they could sell us the actual ending via DLC.
6. They simply got lazy, or decided that implementing the ending they promised would be too much work.

Or it could be some combination of those.  I would certainly like to know the truth, and I imagine that, with time, it will come out.  It always seems to.  Maybe someone leaves BioWare in a few months and releases a statement.  You never know.

#25
wotmaniac

wotmaniac
  • Members
  • 456 messages
bump for justice.