239 réponses à ce sujet

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

I actually means a lot to me that Bioware doesn't think of us as idiots, so I appreciate this.

[Aesieru]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

That all depends on what you think is "too far".

Is filing reports to the FTC and BBB too far to you? Because it shouldn't be, that's people doing what those organizations were created for, and making illegal false advertisements SHOULD be reported.

[Goroxx]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Amen.

Hold the line, but do it with dignity and character people. BioWare ain't the enemy.

[Verkir]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

[VegaMendoza]

Now, I've might have missed something crucial or a moment when everything went into frenzy and anger.

But if I haven't, then I'd suspect that it has been as it always has been since the release of the game; the broad, overwhelming majority of everyone (whatever 'side' they're on) have been utterly and note-worthily civil. I quite agree with every message that calls for civility on the principle of civility alone, but I will have it known that those with intent of being uncivil and threatening will always be like that as they will lack forethought or care to the quality of civility.

My problem arise when we start pointing fingers at ourselves and by insinuation believe that there's this make-believe mob that's being unruly. And we start to whip each other and say 'Oh how bad we've been!', 'So this is how the Retake movement is, bunch of raging tossmongerers!'.

There's a very important difference in being angry and stating 'I am angry', even perhaps being a bit snide and showing contempt then that of actively resorting to ad hominem and insults. The entire point about the Retake 'movement' is showing contempt, showing that one is angry and not satisfied with those crucial 5 minutes of the game, and one ought to have every right to state such. What is NOT accepted is when that anger manifest in actively insulting people and resorting to ad hominem.

I'm pretty sure that our displeasure about the ending would not have been shown by being meek and mellow about it.

Modifié par VegaMendoza, 21 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[Etereoooo]

Go for paradigm. This time...

[tenojitsu]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Thanks for the nod, much appreciated. This forum is like a Ghadi protest compared to some other game forums. Was around for the brawl that ensued after Gears of War 3 was released? This place is childhood playground compared to the Epic warzone that was their forum.

Good job keeping it civil

[John Epler]

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

You may want to re-read what I said. Are you one of the people making personal attacks and throwing around vitriol? No? Then you aren't part of the 'minority'.

I never referred to the movement as a minority, just those who are taking it too far. Simmer down.

[GBJ13]

Honestly, I think we should change the way we talk about it, if Bioware continues to make an effort to create a proper set of endings to the series. I get fighting back when people are criticizing the movement for a variety of reasons. Many of those attacks were unjust and over the top.

If Bioware makes an attempt to fix things, we should be shaking their hands, offering solutions, and defending their decision. It's not easy to reverse course. It takes a lot of courage to admit something went terribly wrong. So yes, Hold the Line, but be careful about friendly fire.

[Zenoctilles]

I disagree, but I agree that we all must remain civil. 

We need to keep pushing to get what we want. If you cry in your little corner, you will not get anything.

Modifié par Zenoctilles, 21 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[Almostfaceman]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Thanks, and I agree.

And I've been on the boards for at least two hours now, I haven't seen a lot of personal attacks against Bioware. I HAVE seen people responding with detail about how they feel about Dr. Muzyka's statement, which is exactly what a forum is for - you know - discussion. Some of it has even been angry but still polite. 

[magor1988x]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

1. I haven't seen any personal attacks

That's because BW mods are locking them almost as fast as they get put up.

I've seen posts & threads calling BW "Bloody Fools," personally attack Dr. Myzuka, Casey Hudson, & Jessica M., all in the last few hours go flying (Ever since Dr. Myzuka's statement was released to the gaming media).

I understand he didn't say directly the "Entire ending will be changed" & that it would take 6 weeks for details to come out on what clarifications & closures any possible DLC will provide, but our response can't be to throw away the strategy that has gotten us this far.

In order to push for an ending that does not revolve around deus ex machina that throws away all of the choices that players have made we need to provide constructive cristicism & passionate but  reasoned responses. 

Do not attack BW employees & watch how you describe BW as a whole. If you do not do that BW will simply brush off your thoughts & move on.

Now is the time when we are at our best advantage yet. We've changed the tone of the debate from "You're in the minority & wasting your time" to "We realize this is not the ending ME3 fans wanted we want to provide clarificication & closure." In order to further capitalize on our advantage we need to hold to the strategy that got us this far.

[ericjdev]

It's bad out there today. I woke up and read the statement and was really happy, optimistic, hopeful, etc..., then I start reading the posts and a lot of folks are reacting like someone just shot their dog. The paranoia and vitriol are running high and It seems odd when we are clearly making headway and things are looking better than they have from the beginning. We need civility and patience or this thing will tear itself apart and we will prove right those who have called us whiny and entitled.

And thank you John Epler.

[phototed]

blooregard wrote...

the more negative topics that show up the more IGN is going to be able to use against us

DO YOU REALLY WANT IGN TO BE RIGHT?

be civil and hold the line,

+++1

We need to be patient and civil.  Well, civil, regardless of anything for that matter.  We got lots of anger both in the forums and in real life.  Why not appreciate the smaller things in life and smile.  

[VoraciousBeaver]

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

He's referring to the irreverent people within the retake campaign with that comment. Not the entire body of the campaign.

EDIT: looks like he's covered that himself.

Modifié par VoraciousBeaver, 21 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[jb1983]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Maybe it's because I'm tired right now, had a long day, or am full of wishful thinking...but seeing a Bioware employee say this makes me very appreciative. It tells me that (1) they're not looking for a reason to just ignore us, (2) they've paid close enough attention to realize that their core fans are displeased with the ending, but hold no ill-will towards individuals at Bioware, and (3) Bioware actually is paying attention. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what solution they come up with. 

[Sharkey1337]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Thanks for the mention John, it helps knowing that you guys know that we're not all radical dissidents. 

[SidNitzerglobin]

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

Jeebus! calm down...

He wasn't calling the Retake people a minority, just the ones who are spewing vitriol and hate towards BioWare, those that are fine w/ the endings, other more measured members of your Retake movement, random people walking by, etc.

[WhiteVV1ings]

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Thank you and I agree. 

It's good to see that Bioware dosen't see us all this way, for that you have my upmost graditude. 

[Goroxx]

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

Oh, COME ON!!  I hate the endings just as much as you do, but geez...this is exactly what people are talking about, taking it too far.

Read.  No, seriously, read what he said.

He didn't call us a minority, he called the screaming flametrolls yelling about everything - a vocal minority within the Retake movement.  

Methinks tho dost protest too much.

[Warhawk7137]

People here do seem to have all the subtlety and measured response of a tactical nuclear weapon.

[ArkkAngel007]

magor1988x wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

1. I haven't seen any personal attacks

That's because BW mods are locking them almost as fast as they get put up.

I've seen posts & threads calling BW "Bloody Fools," personally attack Dr. Myzuka, Casey Hudson, & Jessica M., all in the last few hours go flying (Ever since Dr. Myzuka's statement was released to the gaming media).

I understand he didn't say directly the "Entire ending will be changed" & that it would take 6 weeks for details to come out on what clarifications & closures any possible DLC will provide, but our response can't be to throw away the strategy that has gotten us this far.

In order to push for an ending that does not revolve around deus ex machina that throws away all of the choices that players have made we need to provide constructive cristicism & passionate but  reasoned responses. 

Do not attack BW employees & watch how you describe BW as a whole. If you do not do that BW will simply brush off your thoughts & move on.

Now is the time when we are at our best advantage yet. We've changed the tone of the debate from "You're in the minority & wasting your time" to "We realize this is not the ending ME3 fans wanted we want to provide clarificication & closure." In order to further capitalize on our advantage we need to hold to the strategy that got us this far.

Don't forget emails and the messaging system that is not only on this forum, but facebook, twitter, etc.  Most of what those people are writing to BioWare may not want to have it public.

[SamFlagg]

John Epler wrote...

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

You may want to re-read what I said. Are you one of the people making personal attacks and throwing around vitriol? No? Then you aren't part of the 'minority'.

I never referred to the movement as a minority, just those who are taking it too far. Simmer down.

*Chuckle* I was just about to point this out that you were referring to the minority of the people involved in the Retake wave.

Guys, part of being the calm rational ones is even if you think the PR angle of anything that has been said before  is tweaking you just nod and say  "That's fine, I do disagree with the sentiment, but you are entitled to that opinion"  Reacting to everything as if it is an assualt on your position is not going to help.

You simply can not defend everything and hope to win.  Pick your battles.

[Aerevane]

Goroxx wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

Amen.

Hold the line, but do it with dignity and character people. BioWare ain't the enemy.

They are the enemy, they want to make quick bucks. I've payed over 91 dollars and yet, BioWare treats us as if we're dirt.

I've been on and off this forum for the past 1.5 week and I've seen no clear statement by BioWare. They just write the same stuff I write as a political statement, which is honestly, a load of ambigious crap and euphemisms to cover we're going to rape the financial **** out of people. Since other parties throw out these ambigous pieces as well, you quickly learn to dissect them and see them for what they're worth. Usually not even the paper they've been written on. And it's no different with BioWare; ambigious PR babble mixed with an incredible amount of disrespect to the fanbase. If you want to see an honest response, look at Bethesda's response to FO3...

Modifié par Aerevane, 21 mars 2012 - 10:07 .