239 réponses à ce sujet

[phototed]

John Epler wrote...

Aerevane wrote...

VegaMendoza wrote...

If you want to see an honest response, look at Bethesda's response to FO3...

Which took them months to make and was not the first in their list of priority. There's no 'enemy' in this scenario, old boy. This isn't a battle and nor ought it be. It's a consumer / developer conflict that we'll see how will resort by petitioning and by being expressive in our grievances with the product.

Please, be more thoughtful about the issue and give up on idle anger - fuel that rather with the intent to express what you want them to do, rather than shouting about how '****' they are.

No, this is not correct. Only by polarizing and forcing the issue, can we achieve something. They're trying to pacify us, but we should not be pacified. The moment they succeed in pacifying us, is the moment this movement will die and be blown apart like dust in the wind.

Here's the thing. I can't speak for the ME team, but I can tell you that the criticism we were the most receptive to following DA2's launch was the criticism presented in a constructive fashion. Soon as the personal insults and vitriol comes out, we're far more likely to ignore what's being said. Tone matters. 

We're not trying to pacify anyone, but we -are- asking that people remain respectful, towards each other and towards the developers. This is not new. This is something we've asked for since the beginning. Those who aren't able to follow the rules will not be participating in the forums anymore. That goes for both sides of the argument.

In short: Let's act like responsible adults.  Please. 

[Esoretal]

Wow, what did I miss in an hour? Hold the line with dignity, people.

[rolson00]

John Epler wrote...

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

Why not just come out and say that nothing will be announced until PAX East? This typical Bioware PR vagueness and denial is doing nothing but pissing people off. Oh and the lie filled post by Jarett about MP not being required is effectively a salt box taped over an open wound.

Poor thing. Do you want mommy to kiss that booboo?

This is entirely inappropriate. If you can't be respectful, then don't post.

One and only warning.

does the ME team know that the bioshock director slammed Bioware for respecting your fans? he also hid it behind a vail of support as well here
some Fans are getting desperate, in my op even if BW doesnt change the ending sick children still benifit, any chance you could get some1 from BW to explain this (in a way that nither confrims nor denys aq possible ending)

[Chernaya]

It's a simple rule of nature that being kind and intelligent about something will get you farther than being aggressive and rude.

You can be persistent and passionate about something without being rude. What you should want is to create a mutually respectful and kind relationship with the people you're working with and who hold the fate of your cause in their grasp. Calling them money hungry won't get you anywhere, and that is most certainly not the case for the majority of them. If you created a massively popular series of games, wouldn't you want your fans to love them? Of course they will listen, but how long do you want to listen to someone who is threatening and insulting you?

Modifié par EionaCousland, 21 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[sniperhobbit]

Just re-started Mass effect 1 on pc I want to redo the hole trilogy B4 fingers crossed this extened ending DLC comes out By playing mass effect 3 on ps3 I missed maney carry overs from mass effect 1 so want to see them

[hoorayforicecream]

Aerevane wrote...

No, this is not correct. Only by polarizing and forcing the issue, can we achieve something. They're trying to pacify us, but we should not be pacified. The moment they succeed in pacifying us, is the moment this movement will die and be blown apart like dust in the wind.

What exactly do you hope to achieve by polarizing and forcing the issue? Acknowledgement? That's already been done. An apology for ME3? I don't see how polarizing and forcing will make that happen. Closure? They've already stated that it will be a while before they can announce anything. A new ending DLC? That takes a significant amount of time to make.

I just don't see how polarizing and forcing the issue will help you accomplish anything except bothering other people on the forum.

[CarolSephard]

Everybody needs to calm down, we must be respectful to everyone. RetakeME3 doesn't support insults of any kind so STAY CIVIL.

Hold The Line, and do it the right way.

[Ruari]

beefghost wrote...

I actually haven't seen many personal attacks. Some, but not many. Where are they, exactly?

Well, if they are dumb enough to post them on the forums they get removed pretty quickly, often the user gets banned too. I can't speak for any private comms (phone, mail, email, etc.) I imagine that's where most would come from, easier to hide who you are and not risk being banned.

It's just the nature of a group to get a little more unrulely when it gets large. We just need to establish a code of conduct which specifies this behavior as unacceptable. If anyone is found breaking the code, they are ejected from the group for good. We can't prevent people from being dumb, all we can do is try to limit it and keep them from ruining a civil discussion.

[FellishBeast]

Vasparian wrote...

None of this really even matters anymore. They are not going to fix anything. Just best to let it all go.

*Indoctrinated presence detected*

[SidNitzerglobin]

aj2070 wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

People need to calm down, I don't get why people are even angry. Ray basically said we are getting what we wanted. I hope the media knows the angry personal attacks come from a very small splinter group of the movement.

First, not angry.  However I disagree that "Ray said we are getting what we wanted".  I have read enough press releases to recognize a non-statement.  This is a non-statement with a wait until April.

With that said, I am very skeptically willing to wait until April.

The part where he said they are working on content to clarify and expand on the ending and provide more closure is a non-answer?

[Militarized]

There is an entire stickied post of us being constructive in our criticism. Then they come out again today and say "please give us your feedback" again? I am calm but I rolled my eyes, we've already given pages and pages and pages and pppaaaggeess of thoughtful critique and analysis.

People are, and I feel like I have to explain this alot, venting out the build up of 2 weeks of silence after being told again pretty much the same PR talk.

[magor1988x]

Vasparian wrote...

None of this really even matters anymore. They are not going to fix anything. Just best to let it all go.

Wait do you have insider information on this? Unlikely.

At this point we do not know what BW will or will not do, or how far they will or will not go. We just won a victory by getting them to admit that a very sizeable portion of their fanbase is disatisfied (Notice how I did not say minority OR majority, there is no way for us to know one way or the other, I assume majority because that is all I have personally run into from RL friends & online friends, but there is no way for us to actually know, all we can do is push forward with our own sentiments) & that they are going to change the ending at least to the extent that it will provide further clarification & closure.

That in itself is some level of change, now personally I know I'd like for them to go further than altering the already existing endings, but it is possible I'll be satisfied with BW working within the already exisitng structure.

To say they will not change anything is patently false as the statements from Dr. Myzuka point out. They are going to change some things about the ending, wil it be what we want/enough? We do not have the information currently to decide.

We must continue to offer our criticisms & make our voices heard, but do so civilly without devolving into personal attacks.

[panamakira]

Well it is true the moment you start insulting people and calling it "constructive criticism" everything you say after that will be either ignored or irrelevant.

We all just need chill out and make posts with our personal opinions and concerns in a thoughtful manner. We should give respect in order to receive it and even if you don't, you come out being the better person.

If we don't accomplish what we want, which is a DLC that addresses more thoughtfully the loose ends and plotholes in the endings of ME3, then at least I'll be happy that we all got together and voiced our opinions and got the attention of the internet/media for caring enough about the game.

Even if we turn out to be a small percentage of the overall fanbase. Bioware can bet this percentage of people is the most dedicated and the one that spends the most money in their products.

[Jagri]

The challange I am sure with the Hold the Line movement is that their is a near constant stream of people joining at any given time. People tend to feed off each others emotions and then things generally get out of hand.

Always needs those voices of reason to keep everyone moving in a positive and constructive direction.

[FellishBeast]

John Epler wrote...

Verkir wrote...

John Epler wrote...

For what it's worth, we understand that the hostility and vitriol are from an (extremely) vocal minority. As with any such situation, there are those who take it too far, but it isn't reflective of the group as a whole.

You did not just call us a minority.

I know you didn't.

vocal doesn't mean just typing in all caps on this fourm.

Go look at your games user ratings on amazon etc. They are plummeting through the floor. The game is already on sale, its being fully refunded on origin. Don't you dare call us a minority. That makes light of the issue and makes it something you can sweep under the carpet.

And yes I am mad and insulted at the same time.

You may want to re-read what I said. Are you one of the people making personal attacks and throwing around vitriol? No? Then you aren't part of the 'minority'.

I never referred to the movement as a minority, just those who are taking it too far. Simmer down.

Sheesh. Some people are way too riled up.

Thank you for clarifying, though. ANYTHING we get from a BioWare rep is treated like Scripture in these times, so we anaylze the hell out of it.

I saw it as encouraging, however

EDIT: formatting

Modifié par FellishBeast, 21 mars 2012 - 10:33 .

[Almostfaceman]

Yeah I don't think they're trying to pacify us, they're asking us to give them feedback that they can do something with. Something like "Fire Mac Walters" - um, what are they supposed to do with that? How does that give us the ending we want? All it would tell me, if I were in their shoes, is that someone is unhappy and doesn't know how to communicate like an adult. It would cause me some concern about sales, but I wouldn't know where to go from there.

Yes, everyone who's responding, do so in cogent (clear, logical, and convincing) manner. When folks say "calm down" that doesn't mean you can't be passionate, it just means make sense and don't be insulting.

[FellishBeast]

Almostfaceman wrote...

 When folks say "calm down" that doesn't mean you can't be passionate, it just means make sense and don't be insulting.

This.

[lachdelkar]

Agreed. Let's remember to be polite, considerate and civil. Dr Ray's open letter painted us out as aggressive and portrayed all of the Retake Movement as such. Let's prove to the public that we aren't.

[cinderburster]

John Epler wrote...

Aerevane wrote...
No, this is not correct. Only by polarizing and forcing the issue, can we achieve something. They're trying to pacify us, but we should not be pacified. The moment they succeed in pacifying us, is the moment this movement will die and be blown apart like dust in the wind.

Here's the thing. I can't speak for the ME team, but I can tell you that the criticism we were the most receptive to following DA2's launch was the criticism presented in a constructive fashion. Soon as the personal insults and vitriol comes out, we're far more likely to ignore what's being said. Tone matters. 

We're not trying to pacify anyone, but we -are- asking that people remain respectful, towards each other and towards the developers. This is not new. This is something we've asked for since the beginning. Those who aren't able to follow the rules will not be participating in the forums anymore. That goes for both sides of the argument.

Everything Mr. Epler said here is truth.  No one wants to listen to attacks against themself, their work, or their friends and coworkers.  The only way to be heard is to remain civil.  Nothing says you can't be firm and polite at the same time.

[shoshbear]

Maybe it's because we're lacking leadership? One or two charismatic and decisive voice(s) for people to focus on to calm them down might be the answer but then again we didn't need such a thing in the beginning. It's so upsetting that we are undoing our own substantial progress in a matter of hours.

That being said, I will continue to Hold The Line.

[Almostfaceman]

Militarized wrote...

There is an entire stickied post of us being constructive in our criticism. Then they come out again today and say "please give us your feedback" again? I am calm but I rolled my eyes, we've already given pages and pages and pages and pppaaaggeess of thoughtful critique and analysis.

People are, and I feel like I have to explain this alot, venting out the build up of 2 weeks of silence after being told again pretty much the same PR talk.

If we've already given our feedback (as you and I clearly have) then we can do our part in guiding others to do that very thing. There are new people coming in all the time with negative feelings about the ending. We can do something about that. If you're still going to wait for a better ending and not give up (which is perfectly within your rights) then I suggest we keep responding to people asking questions, direct people to polls and the feedback threads and continue to encourage feedback that will ultimately get us what both parties can live with.

In my opinion, this was a bit more than "we are listening" it did take that step into "we are doing something about it" which is a step in the right direction.

[FS3D]

 +1 to the OP

On the topic of "too far", is it going too far to utilise the BBB and the FTC?

No. It's a lot further than I would have taken it, but not too far, in my opinion. Those agencies exist for a reason.

And please... No comments about "big government". I get tired of such political opinions very quickly.

Too far for me is what one might expect. It's the personal attacks and the name-calling we expect would be crossing the line.

Even so, pointing out that we have been lied to with respect of the end product is not a personal attack, just in case BioWare wants to use that as an example.

[Echo_V]

I have the feeling that the insulting and disrespectful behaviour gets worse by the minute...
I recommend taking a break from posting or lurking and do something else. I know its frustrating with no clear statement from bioware, but raging about it isn't helping much. We aren't asking for a small patch...so it's going to take a while. stay patient and civil.

[Almostfaceman]

shoshbear wrote...

Maybe it's because we're lacking leadership? One or two charismatic and decisive voice(s) for people to focus on to calm them down might be the answer but then again we didn't need such a thing in the beginning. It's so upsetting that we are undoing our own substantial progress in a matter of hours.

That being said, I will continue to Hold The Line.

We're not undoing anything, several moderators have responded that they see the rude fringe for what it is. Let's not give in to a feeling that we're defeating ourselves, most are still being polite and are giving Bioware honest discussion and feedback.

[Fl1xx]

Don't be a space racist; be polite and hold the line, lest we let our ambitions consume us.