148 réponses à ce sujet

[WizenSlinky0]

The funny thing is me and my friend who discussed this at length over multiplayer last night determined the exact opposite conclusion. That most, not all, of the people who liked the ending tended to people who UNDERthought the consequences of the choices you were given.

We weren't unsatisfied until the adrenaline of the final minutes wore off and we began to notice the holes, the problems, and the consequences.

[Kungfu Nando]

I find it funny that the geth are porbably our best hope for surviving past the reaper threat and endings yet not only does the two of them destroy the geth and EDI the starchild insist that the reapers are trying to save me from the race that are trying to save me from the reapers..... and hold all life in higher regard than most other races in the galaxy....

[Texansamurai]

kelsjet wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...
I sent you my top40 objections I had against the ending and why they dont make sense.

I have recieved them and to be honest, they are more presentation and mechanics based, not actually "content" based questions, e.g.

1. Why does shepard have unlimited pistol ammo in the final sequance

or 

2. Why isint shepard able to kill the keepers in the citdel with it

These are not really "plot" inconsistencies. They are more "suspension of disbelief" mechanics.

Sure, we can create a whole lot of inconsistencies in all three games if we put aside "suspension of disbelief". Why can't I kill anyone on the Normandy? Why can't I romance random engineer #14 who sits to the left of the CIC?

That being said, I will address the questions you sent me which actually deal with inconsistencies of the content of the endings.

I don't believe they are just game mechanics... seeing the whole game was had limited ammo. Its questionable the ending is a dream in return makes that make no sense. If game mechanics is your response, then put it as such dont just ignore the question

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

You are ignoring everyone's points and just giving the most basic "oh you just assume they wouldn't" response.
Typical you don't understand the endings either but you want to look smart by saying you do *rolls eyes*

Oh yeah Joker "abandoned us" IN ME2 because we were dead.
So he's going to stop fighting the reapers pick up your team and leave?
Oh look he's running from scary color he doesn't understand.
He'd have to have already left the fighting to be doing that.  While the entire crew said themeselves their with you to the end.

[Arkitekt]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
I'm very curious to this question as well. Even if you assume Shepard is dead, why leave the heat of the battle? 

What battle??

Irrespective of which ending you choose, the battle has ended by the time the big ball is deployed. The Normandy is running away from a big ball of strange stuff, which is a natural reaction when you don't know what that ball actually is or does.

The rest of the things I have already addressed.

So you see a big ball of strange stuff from a thing that is pointed at the mass relays and your first reaction is to escape towards a mass relay? Don't even mind that this relay is like in Pluto, which is a little farther away than the moon.

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
I'm very curious to this question as well. Even if you assume Shepard is dead, why leave the heat of the battle? 

What battle??

Irrespective of which ending you choose, the battle has ended by the time the big ball is deployed. The Normandy is running away from a big ball of strange stuff, which is a natural reaction when you don't know what that ball actually is or does.

The rest of the things I have already addressed.

He'd have to pick up your team from where yo uleft the before entiring thee citedal.
The batlle in the sky where everyone was dying?  Keeping the Reapers from killing everyone?
You know the battle of the freaking galaxy where Joker would have had to abandon BEFORE the damn energy came out to even reach the relay.  You do know that the relay isn't right next to earth right?

[Arkitekt]

Rockworm503 wrote...


Most of the galaxy stranded in the sol system.

Correction. Most of the galaxy fleet stranded in the sol system.

Lets just ignore the canon that the destruction of a Mass Relay = almost complete destruction of the system its on.

Yes, let's, since its not "canon". It happened once in a very particular situation. What happened here may well be utterly different.

Lets just ignore all the varied races where the only livable planet is pretty much charcoal and cant support its own people let alone.

Who says it "can't" support its own people? You? Because you saw some cutscenes?

Lets just ignore Turians and Quarians who cant even eat other races foods because of their biology.

So they will eat whatever it is that they've always eaten in their travels accross the galaxy. I fail to see the problem here. Clearly, they grow up their own food in their own ships.

Please tell me who is going to be alive long enough to "build mass relays"?

Everyone that survived the battle and everyone beyond the other relays. I think that's pretty much clear. I never had a problem with this. I understand that your point of view is a "possible interpretation", but please do not commit the Smudboyanist mistake to assume that your own point of view is the only possible interpretation of the events as unfolded. And if they aren't the only possible interpretations, then you cannot conclude that the game sucks because they automatically lead to your scenarios. Because they do not automatically lead to your scenarios.

[Kungfu Nando]

Rockworm503 wrote...

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
I'm very curious to this question as well. Even if you assume Shepard is dead, why leave the heat of the battle? 

What battle??

Irrespective of which ending you choose, the battle has ended by the time the big ball is deployed. The Normandy is running away from a big ball of strange stuff, which is a natural reaction when you don't know what that ball actually is or does.

The rest of the things I have already addressed.

He'd have to pick up your team from where yo uleft the before entiring thee citedal.
The batlle in the sky where everyone was dying?  Keeping the Reapers from killing everyone?
You know the battle of the freaking galaxy where Joker would have had to abandon BEFORE the damn energy came out to even reach the relay.  You do know that the relay isn't right next to earth right?

Which you can see in the backround of the crucible when you make your desicion?

[kelsjet]

Arkitekt wrote...
So you see a big ball of strange stuff from a thing that is pointed at the mass relays and your first reaction is to escape towards a mass relay? 

This is exactly the kind of weak reasoning I mentioned in my OP.

Where did you get the "fact" that they are escaping towards a mass relay?? The sequence shows nothing of the sort, you have assumed it to be true because it helps build your preconcieved idea that there is an inconsistency.

Rockworm503 wrote...
So he's going to stop fighting the reapers pick up your team and leave?
Oh look he's running from scary color he doesn't understand.
He'd have to have already left the fighting to be doing that.  While the entire crew said themeselves their with you to the end.

Some more examples of the very same point.

Why do you ignore the fact (actual fact this time) that the fighting has stopped by the time the big ball is heading towards the Normandy. In every single ending, the fighting ends as soon as the ball starts to go out, hence, by the time Joker is running away, the fighting is already over.

And yes, if there is a big ball of scary looking stuff that you haven't seen before heading right at you, are you trying to tell me that your natural reaction is to just chill and let it wash over you? That is absurd. 
You would run like hell, especially since you have no idea what it does. 

And no, its not just a "scary color". That is what the hyperbole of the forums make you see it as. 

[Eliavres33]

And you're still to refute my post.

[Rockworm503]

Arkitekt wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...


Most of the galaxy stranded in the sol system.

Correction. Most of the galaxy fleet stranded in the sol system.

Lets just ignore the canon that the destruction of a Mass Relay = almost complete destruction of the system its on.

Yes, let's, since its not "canon". It happened once in a very particular situation. What happened here may well be utterly different.

Lets just ignore all the varied races where the only livable planet is pretty much charcoal and cant support its own people let alone.

Who says it "can't" support its own people? You? Because you saw some cutscenes?

Lets just ignore Turians and Quarians who cant even eat other races foods because of their biology.

So they will eat whatever it is that they've always eaten in their travels accross the galaxy. I fail to see the problem here. Clearly, they grow up their own food in their own ships.

Please tell me who is going to be alive long enough to "build mass relays"?

Everyone that survived the battle and everyone beyond the other relays. I think that's pretty much clear. I never had a problem with this. I understand that your point of view is a "possible interpretation", but please do not commit the Smudboyanist mistake to assume that your own point of view is the only possible interpretation of the events as unfolded. And if they aren't the only possible interpretations, then you cannot conclude that the game sucks because they automatically lead to your scenarios. Because they do not automatically lead to your scenarios.

LOL ok it happened once.
THe only time it ever happens.
The only thing to go on and its not canon .
I based my conclusions on what happens in the game.  if thats not good enough than we don't just have different opinions we played different games;)

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
So you see a big ball of strange stuff from a thing that is pointed at the mass relays and your first reaction is to escape towards a mass relay? 

This is exactly the kind of weak reasoning I mentioned in my OP.

Where did you get the "fact" that they are escaping towards a mass relay?? The sequence shows nothing of the sort, you have assumed it to be true because it helps build your preconcieved idea that there is an inconsistency.

Rockworm503 wrote...
So he's going to stop fighting the reapers pick up your team and leave?
Oh look he's running from scary color he doesn't understand.
He'd have to have already left the fighting to be doing that.  While the entire crew said themeselves their with you to the end.

Some more examples of the very same point.

Why do you ignore the fact (actual fact this time) that the fighting has stopped by the time the big ball is heading towards the Normandy. In every single ending, the fighting ends as soon as the ball starts to go out, hence, by the time Joker is running away, the fighting is already over.

And yes, if there is a big ball of scary looking stuff that you haven't seen before heading right at you, are you trying to tell me that your natural reaction is to just chill and let it wash over you? That is absurd. 
You would run like hell, especially since you have no idea what it does. 

And no, its not just a "scary color". That is what the hyperbole of the forums make you see it as. 

Logic would help your argument if you use it.  Joker is running from a color that is specifically targetting mass relays.  THis is SHOWN.  How are we NOT to think he's not in the middle of a jump in relay?  Because if it was hitting everything in space EVERYONE would be dead and it would be an even bleaker ending than the one we already got.
To assume he was at earth and saw the explosion and found ANOTHER earth like planet in the Solar System is absurd.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 21 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[kelsjet]

Rockworm503 wrote...
He'd have to pick up your team from where yo uleft the before entiring thee citedal.
The batlle in the sky where everyone was dying?  Keeping the Reapers from killing everyone?
You know the battle of the freaking galaxy where Joker would have had to abandon BEFORE the damn energy came out to even reach the relay.  You do know that the relay isn't right next to earth right?

So now you are talking about before the actual ending itself.
Your propensity to ignore facts is astounding.

Joker did the exact same thing in the beginning of the game when he "left the battle to come pick up Shepard" to escape earth.

Are you trying to tell me that if your squadmates (who are still on earth) send Joker an SOS for pickup he will say "Nah sorry guys, I'm having too much fun ramming my small frigate against these collosal Reaper dreadnaughts, can't come and pick you up".

Absurd.

As I mentioned earlier, POST Marauder shields there is more than enough time for the Normandy to get down, pick people up, and then head back up top. Especially when he gets down, notices that Shep isn't there, realizes that Shep is at the citadel so quickly picks up your team then rushes to the citadel only to have it blow up with a big strange ball of energy, and so he runs away from it.

How does that not make sense??

[Arkitekt]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
So you see a big ball of strange stuff from a thing that is pointed at the mass relays and your first reaction is to escape towards a mass relay? 

This is exactly the kind of weak reasoning I mentioned in my OP.

Where did you get the "fact" that they are escaping towards a mass relay?? The sequence shows nothing of the sort, you have assumed it to be true because it helps build your preconcieved idea that there is an inconsistency.

Backtrack one thought before calling my reasoning weak. If Joker is travelling through a mass relay channel, it means that he *must have had* to escape towards a mass relay *first*. You cannot just jump into a mass relay channel from anywhere. He is not caught *anywhere*, he is caught inside a mass relay channel, that much is clear at least.

Get it now?

Why do you ignore the fact (actual fact this time) that the fighting has stopped by the time the big ball is heading towards the Normandy. In every single ending, the fighting ends as soon as the ball starts to go out, hence, by the time Joker is running away, the fighting is already over.

We are talking seconds here, please. And we have established by this point that Joker's reaction is to flee *towards* the pluto relay, yes? Why is that so? Where's the rest of the fleet? Is the rest of the fleet destroyed by the big balls of colors?

And no, its not just a "scary color". That is what the hyperbole of the forums make you see it as. 

It's the only thing Joker *can* know: it's scary and it has a RGB color.

[Aldrann]

When I finished ME3 the first time, I chose Green. My initial reaction was mixed. I understood what happened and why, but I was a little upset that I didn't get to see what happened to all my friends and foes. I was sad I didn't get to see what happened to Garrus, my favorite character, or Ashley, my Shep's love interest. It was so open ended, I felt like I had more questions than answers. But I was excited to play again.

Then I replayed the final sequence so that I could see all the endings. This time I chose Red. I got the exact same ending. I felt as though nothing I had done mattered. What about all the time I spent creating the ME world in my image? None of my crafting made any difference because my choices apparently have no impact on the ending to my story? And that's what Mass Effect was always supposed to be: interactive fiction. MY story. Instead it comes across like a choose your own adventure with only one conclusion.

I think the miscommunication here is that we 'h8ters' don't think the ending itself was bad at face value. We see the ending as incomplete and that's why it's upsetting to us. We see it this way because it was our understanding that the ending to ME3 would be a culmination of our choices thus far; the huge exclamation point at the end of our stories that told us exactly why we'd spent so much time interacting with this universe. But it wasn't. No matter what we did in ME1, 2, or 3, we were given three choices that all resulted in the same cinematic.

We were also told that the ending would be completely different from the standard "choose A, B, or C" ending of most games, but that's exactly what we got. I think this is what we're mostly upset about, or at least it's what I'm mostly upset about.

We love the games, we love the universe, we love Bioware. We just expected so much more from them because know that they could have done better. We're not mad because we feel like they did this on purpose, we know they didn't. We know what they're capable of and we didn't feel like they gave us their full effort this time. It's unfortunate that some of the dissent has gotten so disrespectful. I love Bioware and Mass Effect and I will always love Bioware and Mass Effect. I just want them to give me their best effort every time. I want them to really remind me why I respect them so much.

[Zanath]

kelsjet wrote...

Don't just wish.
PM me about any questions you have and I will explain the gaps for you.

I think a lot of people are not liking the ending because maybe they just don't get some of the subtleties. Not that the ending is particularly subtle or amazing, its just not your "ZOMG TERRORIRTZ R DAED! WE WINZ!!" that you usually get in games these days.

I think that either you're vastly more intelligent than most people on Earth to manage to find the "subtleties" that would explain impossibilities or ridiculous nonsense, or you're just a complete idiot trying to believe that unconnected garbage is a clever hint.

I tend to think that the probabilities are overwhelmingly about the latter.

[kelsjet]

Rockworm503 wrote...
Logic would help your argument if you use it.  Joker is running from a color that is specifically targetting mass relays.  

/facepalm

The intial explosion is coming from the Citadel itself, which is parked right above Earth. That is SHOWN. That is what he is running from. He isn't running from the explosion around the relay.

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
He'd have to pick up your team from where yo uleft the before entiring thee citedal.
The batlle in the sky where everyone was dying?  Keeping the Reapers from killing everyone?
You know the battle of the freaking galaxy where Joker would have had to abandon BEFORE the damn energy came out to even reach the relay.  You do know that the relay isn't right next to earth right?

So now you are talking about before the actual ending itself.
Your propensity to ignore facts is astounding.

Joker did the exact same thing in the beginning of the game when he "left the battle to come pick up Shepard" to escape earth.

Are you trying to tell me that if your squadmates (who are still on earth) send Joker an SOS for pickup he will say "Nah sorry guys, I'm having too much fun ramming my small frigate against these collosal Reaper dreadnaughts, can't come and pick you up".

Absurd.

As I mentioned earlier, POST Marauder shields there is more than enough time for the Normandy to get down, pick people up, and then head back up top. Especially when he gets down, notices that Shep isn't there, realizes that Shep is at the citadel so quickly picks up your team then rushes to the citadel only to have it blow up with a big strange ball of energy, and so he runs away from it.

How does that not make sense??

Really?
Really?
really?
and just in case you missed it...
REALLY?

Your team asked Joker to pick them up and abandon Shepard after they said their here to the end?
Where in hell is Joker going to run from this fight?  We've established that there is no running.

[Arkitekt]

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOL ok it happened once.
THe only time it ever happens.
The only thing to go on and its not canon .

"canon" is that you blew up the Alpha relay and 300 000 batarians were dead.

"canon" is not that everytime you blow up a mass relay the system has to go. These are different uses of the word canon, and you are not allowed to deduce the second from the first. You can "infer" it, but it's always an induction, and inductions are always wrong.

I based my conclusions on what happens in the game.  if thats not good enough than we don't just have different opinions we played different games;)

I never said you didn't base your conclusions on what happens in the game. It's the conclusions that are wrong, not the basing them on what happens in the game 

[kelsjet]

Arkitekt wrote...
Where's the rest of the fleet? Is the rest of the fleet destroyed by the big balls of colors?

The Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet. The rest got pwned.

[The Spamming Troll]

Texansamurai wrote...

You are in a minority according to polls 59,000 against 1,300 last time I checked. I don't encourage people however to "rub it in your face". I'm glad you liked the ending, I sure wish I could have

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

that poll doesnt have an option for me to choose.......

id like the ending to be self explanatory. if its an ending to a story, then end the damn story.

the end doesnt need to be happy, it needs to be rewarding. at the very least it shouldnt make me despise everything ive done in ME1 and ME2. i mean that should have been more obviouse to bioware then anything.

id like an ending that defines my entire journey. i need to feel waves of nostalgia and euphoria, that my journey has come to and end, and this is how i got there.

ME3s ending sucks. even that last breath of air or the starchild scene can make up for everything that lost me with ME3s ending. ....i forgot what i started making this post about just trying to think about what the hell was going on with the ending.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Logic would help your argument if you use it.  Joker is running from a color that is specifically targetting mass relays.  

/facepalm

The intial explosion is coming from the Citadel itself, which is parked right above Earth. That is SHOWN. That is what he is running from. He isn't running from the explosion around the relay.

Than how is he in a relay jump without a relay?
I guess we don't need those silly things for no raisin?  

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
Where's the rest of the fleet? Is the rest of the fleet destroyed by the big balls of colors?

The Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet. The rest got pwned.

Damn we were better off letting the reapers win!

[Arkitekt]

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
Where's the rest of the fleet? Is the rest of the fleet destroyed by the big balls of colors?

The Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet. The rest got pwned.

Oh. Ok. That is somewhat sad. I mean, people go rambling about how the huge fleet above Earth will never escape their own famine, but you just solved their misery I guess .




So everyone's dead. That makes sense.

[Icemix]

Arkitekt wrote...
Funny thing. Ever since Mass Effect 1's Sovereign speech that the term "technological singularity" clinged on my mind perfectly. Sovereign was clearly a product of precisely such an event. In ME2 I was proven right at the end. The whole ME series was about "synthetics vs organics", ever since Eden Prime.

In ME 1 maybe, since then we didn't know much about the Reapers or the Geth, but in ME2 and ME 3, definitely not. I mean come on, we spend hours uniting the Geth and the Quarians in a war that the Quarians started, and yet the argument behind the Reapers is that we have to die now, because our synthetics MAY turn on us someday. That is just stupid, sloppy, lazy, last minute writing and it makes no ****ing sense.