148 réponses à ce sujet

[kelsjet]

Rockworm503 wrote...


Really?
Really?
really?
and just in case you missed it...
REALLY?

Your team asked Joker to pick them up and abandon Shepard after they said their here to the end?
Where in hell is Joker going to run from this fight?  We've established that there is no running.

It is pointless having a discussion with you since you are actively and selectively ignoring to read what others are writing since you are so intent of sticking to "holding your line".

As I already explained, your concept of "already established there is no running" is not a fact. 

Observe the following rather simple chain of events:

Pre Marauder Shields:
Shep + Team: RUN TO TEH BLUE BEAM!
*Shep + team gets knocked out by red beam. Team gets knocked out.*
Post Marauder Shield:
*Team regains conciousness. Look around for Shep he is nowhere to be seen*
Team: Where is shep!?
*Citadel arms open*
Team: Shep is obviously on the Citadel, the arms opened!!
Team: Joker! Come pick us up we need to get to the citadel to help Shep!
Joker: Aye Aye!
*Normandy zips down, picks up team, starts heading up to Citadel*
*Normandy getting close to Citadel, big RGB explosion*
Joker: OH SNAP! Ima try outrun it!!!
*Normandy gets pwned by RGB sphere*

[StabGuy]

*spoilers*
Good commentary about the endings. 10 Reasons We Hate Mass Effect 3's Ending

Modifié par StabGuy, 21 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...


Really?
Really?
really?
and just in case you missed it...
REALLY?

Your team asked Joker to pick them up and abandon Shepard after they said their here to the end?
Where in hell is Joker going to run from this fight?  We've established that there is no running.

It is pointless having a discussion with you since you are actively and selectively ignoring to read what others are writing since you are so intent of sticking to "holding your line".

As I already explained, your concept of "already established there is no running" is not a fact. 

Observe the following rather simple chain of events:

Pre Marauder Shields:
Shep + Team: RUN TO TEH BLUE BEAM!
*Shep + team gets knocked out by red beam. Team gets knocked out.*
Post Marauder Shield:
*Team regains conciousness. Look around for Shep he is nowhere to be seen*
Team: Where is shep!?
*Citadel arms open*
Team: Shep is obviously on the Citadel, the arms opened!!
Team: Joker! Come pick us up we need to get to the citadel to help Shep!
Joker: Aye Aye!
*Normandy zips down, picks up team, starts heading up to Citadel*
*Normandy getting close to Citadel, big RGB explosion*
Joker: OH SNAP! Ima try outrun it!!!
*Normandy gets pwned by RGB sphere*

Oh so this tropicol planet they crash landed on was...... Mars?

[kelsjet]

Rockworm503 wrote...
Damn we were better off letting the reapers win!

Again, Joker doesn't know whether they are destroyed, disabled or unharmed. He is less concerned about sitting around and finding out and more concerned with survival. Which is what every single one of you would do as well.

Trying to make it seem like it is absurd that he is running away from something that is big and scary is exactly the kind of "reaching for straws" that is at the core of this whole "The endings were terrible" movement.

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Damn we were better off letting the reapers win!

Again, Joker doesn't know whether they are destroyed, disabled or unharmed. He is less concerned about sitting around and finding out and more concerned with survival. Which is what every single one of you would do as well.

Trying to make it seem like it is absurd that he is running away from something that is big and scary is exactly the kind of "reaching for straws" that is at the core of this whole "The endings were terrible" movement.

Not nearly as absurd as trying to make it sound like a good thing that Joker was in fact already running.  We've seen Mass Relay travel and it looks like he's in freaking mass relay travel.  Are you telling use we don't need those anymore to do mass relay travel?

[kelsjet]

Rockworm503 wrote...
Oh so this tropicol planet they crash landed on was...... Mars?

Mars? No, it was the same planet that hosted the video showing that the Normandy was obliterated after getting hit by the RGB sphere. 

There is no evidence that suggests that the Normandy just blew up and was incapable of flight after being hit by the sphere of death. They could have limped (or been carried in the wake) of the sphere itself.

[Rockworm503]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Oh so this tropicol planet they crash landed on was...... Mars?

Mars? No, it was the same planet that hosted the video showing that the Normandy was obliterated after getting hit by the RGB sphere. 

There is no evidence that suggests that the Normandy just blew up and was incapable of flight after being hit by the sphere of death. They could have limped (or been carried in the wake) of the sphere itself.

We watch the beam hit the Normandy.
Knocks the hull completely out.  I find it insane that he was even able to crash land at all and survive.  I mean Joker is good but if he could do that why not do it when the Collectors were attacking at the beginning of ME2?
Not only that but he crash lands on a tropical planet that is so obviously not ravaged by Reapers.  To suggest that there is such a planet so close to earth is so insane........

You are right about 1 thing.
Speaking to me is pointless because I try not to waste time explaining why something is bad to someone too stubborn to see the obvious.
I feel like I'm explaining a movie to someone who didn't even watch it.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 21 mars 2012 - 11:37 .

[Arkitekt]

Icemix wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
Funny thing. Ever since Mass Effect 1's Sovereign speech that the term "technological singularity" clinged on my mind perfectly. Sovereign was clearly a product of precisely such an event. In ME2 I was proven right at the end. The whole ME series was about "synthetics vs organics", ever since Eden Prime.

In ME 1 maybe, since then we didn't know much about the Reapers or the Geth, but in ME2 and ME 3, definitely not. I mean come on, we spend hours uniting the Geth and the Quarians in a war that the Quarians started, and yet the argument behind the Reapers is that we have to die now, because our synthetics MAY turn on us someday. That is just stupid, sloppy, lazy, last minute writing and it makes no ****ing sense.

It's not "may". It's inevitable. And that's just a viewpoint that we have to accept blindingly, and that's the problem.

Consider, he was probably right. Right in proclaiming the "inevitability" of this chaos. But we have no way of knowing. Shepard does one thing right, he says "We'll take our chances". But he should have sticked with that attitude to the end. Destroying the Geth along with the Reapers was just evil lol.

[Kungfu Nando]

 

kelsjet wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
So you see a big ball of strange stuff from a thing that is pointed at the mass relays and your first reaction is to escape towards a mass relay? 

This is exactly the kind of weak reasoning I mentioned in my OP.

Where did you get the "fact" that they are escaping towards a mass relay?? The sequence shows nothing of the sort, you have assumed it to be true because it helps build your preconcieved idea that there is an inconsistency.

Rockworm503 wrote...
So he's going to stop fighting the reapers pick up your team and leave?
Oh look he's running from scary color he doesn't understand.
He'd have to have already left the fighting to be doing that.  While the entire crew said themeselves their with you to the end.

Some more examples of the very same point.

Why do you ignore the fact (actual fact this time) that the fighting has stopped by the time the big ball is heading towards the Normandy. In every single ending, the fighting ends as soon as the ball starts to go out, hence, by the time Joker is running away, the fighting is already over.

And yes, if there is a big ball of scary looking stuff that you haven't seen before heading right at you, are you trying to tell me that your natural reaction is to just chill and let it wash over you? That is absurd. 
You would run like hell, especially since you have no idea what it does. 

And no, its not just a "scary color". That is what the hyperbole of the forums make you see it as. 

Why do you seem to ignore the fact that it hasn't even tho the scenery, cutssences and story would say otherwise

To break it down
1) Shepard never responds to hackett, he simply passes out
2) When you go to make your desicion look at the backround, the fleets are still actively engaing the reapers
3) It takes seconds for the "scary light to activate and hit the relays if time is correct in the end cutscene
4) Ground forces are still actively engaging reapers on earth with new reapers still breaking pass the fleet in orbit and landing on the ground, even when the light hits earth
5) From what we can see joker is being transported by a relay but the animation is him in FLT flight pushing the ship past its limits in order to outrun the wave ( okay this one might be more spec but watch the ending recently and it seems like the case, as the whole Blue in front red in back animation for FLT is being displayed plus the beam seems to hit the relays before joker could get there)

[Rockworm503]

Dude missing the whole point of the entire series.
Our choices were supposed to matter.
I don't care if you can explain the terribad ending/s they still failed to deliver.

[Ulicus]

kelsjet wrote...

Legion64 wrote...
The whole logic about the reapers is terrible. "We made syntheics to kill organics to save organics from being killed by synthetics". 

I totally disagree. The logic makes perfect sense.

What we MUST strive to remember (heck its even said in game) is that the reapers actually let some civilizations live and repopulate the galaxy. That is a critical part to their logic.

If the reapers didn't 'reap' and left the synthetics to their own devices, ALL organic life would be wiped out. One of the main themes in all games is the utter dominance of synthetic life over organic (if you want examples, PM me and I will give you them). 

By preventing organics creating synthetic life to destroy themselves, the reapers ensure that the galaxy will always have some organic life and not just be a galaxy of synthetics.

I don't think you can have thought this through.

It is it is the Reapers that direct the technological development of the organic races. All advanced technology, including that which leads to the development of synthetic life, is ultimately based on theirs. If the Reapers were invested in protecting organics from the singularity, as ME3's ending asserts, why would they help them towards it in every single cycle? How does this even begin to make sense?

Furthermore, why bother with the cycles at all? If the Reapers' only concern is the preservation of organic life, why not simply hang out in the Milky Way and keep every race locked in medieval stasis? A species is about to go through the industrial revolution? Drop in, declare yourself God, and issue a series of commandments that keep them in line. Easy.

Helping organics to advance and then killing them because being advanced will bring about their doom is not the kind of efficient model I would expect from a hyper-intelligence.

Modifié par Ulicus, 22 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[Ellae Rose]

I agree that the ending was fine. I did believe it tied into the storyline and there wasn't plotholes (from my understanding and from playing the series from 2007 five times.)

There was somethings that were confusing, the "teleporting" characters, ect. But that is based on the assumption that the characters in your party did not manage to escape and died. Otherwise, it's perfectly okay to assume your party characters in fact DID escape and managed to get back to the Normandy.

Someone early in the thread stated "you're in the minority because of *insert random number* posters in this forum, blah blah."

No. You're not. This game has sold 1.62 million copies worldwide. Even 50,000 ending dislikes is a small percent.

I think most of the people who enjoyed it just kept quiet and went on their merry way. Most people who want to complain about something are more vocal. More people will take the time out of their day to point out their dissatisfied then satisfied.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Ulicus wrote...

kelsjet wrote...

Legion64 wrote...
The whole logic about the reapers is terrible. "We made syntheics to kill organics to save organics from being killed by synthetics". 

I totally disagree. The logic makes perfect sense.

What we MUST strive to remember (heck its even said in game) is that the reapers actually let some civilizations live and repopulate the galaxy. That is a critical part to their logic.

If the reapers didn't 'reap' and left the synthetics to their own devices, ALL organic life would be wiped out. One of the main themes in all games is the utter dominance of synthetic life over organic (if you want examples, PM me and I will give you them). 

By preventing organics creating synthetic life to destroy themselves, the reapers ensure that the galaxy will always have some organic life and not just be a galaxy of synthetics.

I don't think you can have thought this through.

It is it is the Reapers that direct the technological development of the organic races. All advanced technology, including that which leads to the development of synthetic life, is ultimately based on theirs. If the Reapers were invested in protecting organics from the singularity, as ME3's ending asserts, why would they help them towards it in every single cycle? How does this even begin to make sense?

Furthermore, why bother with the cycles at all? If the Reapers' only concern is the preservation of organic life, why not simply hang out in the Milky Way and keep every race locked in medieval stasis? A species is about to go through the industrial revolution? Drop in, declare yourself God, and issue a series of commandments that keep them in line. Easy.

Helping organics to advance and then killing them because being advanced will bring about their doom is not the kind of efficent model I would expect from a hyper-intelligence.

The problem is they changed the Reaper's purpose halfway through so that's why their pruning doesn't make any sense as it stands now. That's why anything Sovereign says and does at in the first game don't match up to anything that is said and done in ME3.

[Arkitekt]

kelsjet wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
Oh so this tropicol planet they crash landed on was...... Mars?

Mars? No, it was the same planet that hosted the video showing that the Normandy was obliterated after getting hit by the RGB sphere. 

There is no evidence that suggests that the Normandy just blew up and was incapable of flight after being hit by the sphere of death. They could have limped (or been carried in the wake) of the sphere itself.

So just to make it clear, let me recap the events as they unfold inside your head.

Beam hits the team
Team wakes up realises Shep ain't there.
Team realises Shep is inside the Citadel, call Joker for backup.
Normandy catches crew.
Normandy tries to reach the Citadel, but it blows up in RGB mode.
The fleet (Hackett et al) are all pwned, and Joker engages the FTL drive.
Meanwhile, the Reapers *may have not been pwned at all*.
Joker flees to the Charon Relay near Pluto, which is more or less at 5 light-hour distance.
He does not flee to Mars or Jupiter. He flees to the Charon Relay. He must get out of Sol system for some unspoken reason.
Normandy gets caught up by the big RGB ball when the Relays are being taken out link by link.
Normandy goes out of FTL and crashes miraculously on a planet (no problem with this at all... it's a sci fi meme).

Sooooooo something like that?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Ellae Rose wrote...

I agree that the ending was fine. I did believe it tied into the storyline and there wasn't plotholes (from my understanding and from playing the series from 2007 five times.)

There was somethings that were confusing, the "teleporting" characters, ect. But that is based on the assumption that the characters in your party did not manage to escape and died. Otherwise, it's perfectly okay to assume your party characters in fact DID escape and managed to get back to the Normandy.

Someone early in the thread stated "you're in the minority because of *insert random number* posters in this forum, blah blah."

No. You're not. This game has sold 1.62 million copies worldwide. Even 50,000 ending dislikes is a small percent.

I think most of the people who enjoyed it just kept quiet and went on their merry way. Most people who want to complain about something are more vocal. More people will take the time out of their day to point out their dissatisfied then satisfied.

They didn't escape. If you look closely towards the end they're lying dead. There is even a scene where you see them die.

This scene was cut for final release.

[Unfallen_Satan]

You never know. Maybe BioWare is working on a new presentation of the endings instead of making radical changes to its content.

[Arkitekt]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Ellae Rose wrote...

I agree that the ending was fine. I did believe it tied into the storyline and there wasn't plotholes (from my understanding and from playing the series from 2007 five times.)

There was somethings that were confusing, the "teleporting" characters, ect. But that is based on the assumption that the characters in your party did not manage to escape and died. Otherwise, it's perfectly okay to assume your party characters in fact DID escape and managed to get back to the Normandy.

Someone early in the thread stated "you're in the minority because of *insert random number* posters in this forum, blah blah."

No. You're not. This game has sold 1.62 million copies worldwide. Even 50,000 ending dislikes is a small percent.

I think most of the people who enjoyed it just kept quiet and went on their merry way. Most people who want to complain about something are more vocal. More people will take the time out of their day to point out their dissatisfied then satisfied.

They didn't escape. If you look closely towards the end they're lying dead. There is even a scene where you see them die.

This scene was cut for final release.

Sauce? But if the scene was cut for final release, it ain't canon.

It should be however. Mates you bring with you should die, and the Normandy scene should not have them.

[anlk92]

Arkitekt wrote...

Sauce? But if the scene was cut for final release, it ain't canon.

It should be however. Mates you bring with you should die, and the Normandy scene should not have them.

Normandy scene should not exist in the first place. 

OP fails to explain why Joker would run away when he sees the blast from Citadel. I mean it wasn't something unexpected. They came there exactly to see that happen. His reaction should have been more like "Oh the Reapers are screwed".

Also in green and blue endings the whole thing is even more ridiculous since the blast isn't even supposed to harm anyone.

[Naoe]

Some of the things that rub me the wrong way:
- Your choices throughout the series have no impact - we were promised wildly different endings depending on the choices we made. Where are they?
- The ball of color seems to be traveling at the speed of light or faster (judging from the galaxy view when the mass releys light up)... I know Joker is good, but... seriously.
- Picking up team members - I'm sorry no matter how I look at it I can't see them not following Shep into the light...
- Blue end - when Legion integrated into Normandy in ME2 it didn't explode... I guess the geth are more advanced than the reapers after all...
- Reaper reasoning 1 - organic and synthetic beings can coexit. There is NO logical reason for synthetics to fight organics other than self-preservation. There are many reasons for organics and synthetics to cooperate - or join in the form of cybernetic organisms.
- Reaper reasoning 2 - if their goal is what the kid says, why start a galactic war? I can think of 3 far faster and more efficient ways to get the results - with zero causalties on the reaper side.
- If IM is under control, what was the whole confrontation between him Anderson and Shep? It makes no sense.

Edit> BTW I just watched the with with the 10 reasons... And you can clearly see that the fight still goes on when shep is talking to the kid.

Modifié par Naoe, 22 mars 2012 - 12:45 .

[Nelatherion]

The theme of the ending is fine, "Sacrifice" its the gaping plot holes people do not like.

The theme of sacrifice goes through the entire game and is blatantly obvious, so it is not a change in theme people want. It is a "fill in the holes" and make it make sense. Or simply bioware is trolling us and Indoc is correct (not sure which I hope for now)

[nssBoB]

Rickin10 wrote...

This seems to be the most coherent example of everything that is wrong with the ending.

Please watch:

god that guy has some of the most boring and stupid videos i saw in a long time... wanabee yahtzee with no style

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Arkitekt wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Ellae Rose wrote...

I agree that the ending was fine. I did believe it tied into the storyline and there wasn't plotholes (from my understanding and from playing the series from 2007 five times.)

There was somethings that were confusing, the "teleporting" characters, ect. But that is based on the assumption that the characters in your party did not manage to escape and died. Otherwise, it's perfectly okay to assume your party characters in fact DID escape and managed to get back to the Normandy.

Someone early in the thread stated "you're in the minority because of *insert random number* posters in this forum, blah blah."

No. You're not. This game has sold 1.62 million copies worldwide. Even 50,000 ending dislikes is a small percent.

I think most of the people who enjoyed it just kept quiet and went on their merry way. Most people who want to complain about something are more vocal. More people will take the time out of their day to point out their dissatisfied then satisfied.

They didn't escape. If you look closely towards the end they're lying dead. There is even a scene where you see them die.

This scene was cut for final release.

Sauce? But if the scene was cut for final release, it ain't canon.

It should be however. Mates you bring with you should die, and the Normandy scene should not have them.

They're still dead. You just don't see scene. The data is still on the disc.

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 22 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[hercules1991]

:wizard:I don't have the time to look back through the pages trying to find the post, but i would like to say something in response of the idea that the ending fit the theme of the whole series.

How can you have possibly played the previous games and say that with a straight face?

Each game set up a dramatic and thought provoking moment and then gave the player the opportunity to achieve an outcome that felt like we had fought nearly impossible odds and managed to rise victorious.  Both ME1 and ME2 left me feeling like i had accomplishd the impossible.   In fact i remember jumping out of my seat at the end of ME2 and fist punching the air.  That was an amazing feeling and an ending that made me feel like that for ME3 would have ended the trilogy in way that would have guaranteed replayability.

Now that is just one thing I had an issue with.  The rest revolve around the ending not giving us choices like it was implied.  The three choices at the end are not real choices.  No matter what you choose the galaxy is still set into what will essentially be a dark age.  Remember that the mass relays allow travel around the galaxy.  Even at the speed of light it would take a ship over 4 years to leave the sol system and get to the closest star.  Were talking hundreds of years to rebuild the relays and that might not be possible at all as it was pointed out in ME2 that even the asari do not completely understand how the relays work.  


That's just my two cents. 

[lumen11]

hercules1991 wrote...

Each game set up a dramatic and thought provoking moment and then gave the player the opportunity to achieve an outcome that felt like we had fought nearly impossible odds and managed to rise victorious.  Both ME1 and ME2 left me feeling like i had accomplishd the impossible.   In fact i remember jumping out of my seat at the end of ME2 and fist punching the air.  That was an amazing feeling and an ending that made me feel like that for ME3 would have ended the trilogy in way that would have guaranteed replayability.

That isn't a theme....

The guy was talking about themes.

[RShara]

The problem with BOTH sides of this debate is that neither side has enough concrete proof to support either argument.

We don't KNOW how long Shepard was unconscious. It could have been minutes or hours. It COULD have caused Joker+Others to go looking and trying to get to the Citadel. Or it COULD be just a few minutes and the entire battle is still going on.
We don't KNOW why Joker is flying away (and I am still undecided about whether he is in FTL or a relay). Joker COULD have gone rescuing the Normandy crew members. He could have just been batting out of there. There is no APPARENT reason though. I would like to point out--FTL wouldn't be necessary between Earth and the Citadel, and you also don't use it in-system.

We also don't KNOW what Joker is looking back at, since there aren't any windows behind him

We do KNOW that the space battle is still going on even while Shepard makes The Choice.

We do KNOW that the ground battle is still going on even while Shepard makes The Choice.

We don't KNOW what happens to a Mass Relay that is (maybe) powered down before exploding. We have only 1 instance of a relay exploding, and that nuked a solar system. We can INFER that it's different, but we don't KNOW.

My point is, for an ending to a series, there is a LOT that we don't KNOW and have to either GUESS or INFER just about the very end. Some of those things have galaxy-wide impact. Generally, you don't do that at the end of a story.