148 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaoswind]

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

[Haristo]

didn't readt but if by theme you meant that whole ''Organics VS synthetics'' thing instead of the original ''Dark Matter'' plot twist. then I think I agree with you.

the problem is the execution.

[HenchxNarf]

Chaoswind wrote...

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

But the thing is... YOUR Shepard does not matter. Bioware wanted Shepards ending to be like this. The character THEY created and allowed you to play.

[IST]

OdanUrr wrote...

I'm just leaving this here and running away as fast as I can. It's a long read, but I'd appreciate your comments.

Good arguments for both sides up in there ^^^ - recommended reading.

Whatever happens, I'm content - as long as, in the end, everything make sense.

[SidNitzerglobin]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

But the thing is... YOUR Shepard does not matter. Bioware wanted Shepards ending to be like this. The character THEY created and allowed you to play.

That's totally counter to their design statements for the entire series and is an incredibly crappy way to approach designing an western RPG.  They built up and continued to market how much this was OUR Shepard and then railroaded OUR Shepards into a poorly crafted three way funnel that all led back to the same ending (and an additional 5 seconds worth of cutscene if you made all the "right" decisions and/or played enough multiplayer) w/ some additional texture overlays, and color palette shifts, and different people walking out of the Normandy.

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 22 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[Chaoswind]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

But the thing is... YOUR Shepard does not matter. Bioware wanted Shepards ending to be like this. The character THEY created and allowed you to play.

LOL?

Then why give us the illusion of choice in the first place?

Is like offering you a pay raise and then kicking you out before the raise is effective...

How am I supposed to feel after that?

[Jiso]

You are the 1%

[Chaoswind]

Naw

I would say is more like 18% out right hate the endings, 51% dislike the endings but can live with it, 10% don't care and the rest 21% actually liked it

[Darth_Ultima]

Why are people still making the claim that this ending was too deep for some people? I did not have a problem thematically or think it was too deep. I happen to appreciate the classic Asimov themes it was drawn from. I have a problem with the way it was executed. It was very jarring and forced me to make a choice that completely disregarded all the other actions I had taken. Not to mention there were some big plot-holes as well and events that had no context. All these things combined together in such a short time-frame completely removed me from the game and removed any satisfaction I would have felt otherwise.

It left me feeling like they rushed the ending and I was not at all happy with what the result was. I would give a more detailed explanation but sadly I would have to use specifics and spoilers to do so and this is in the spoiler free zone. If you can ignore all the name-calling and base-less accusations from all sides of the issue you can see that many people who did not like the ending have some valid reasons for it. As much as I appreciate artistic integrity, we would not be here in this position debating the value of artistic integrity vs. consumer satisfaction if Bioware had not rushed the ending in the first place. All in all I can see what they were trying to do and can appreciate it on those grounds but they did not execute it with the precision that Bioware is normally known for so as a result a lot of people are upset. Its sad too because this could be been one of the best games of our generation now it will be remembered for the controversy surrounding it.

[JamieCOTC]

The intent of the ending is fine, but the execution could have used more work. The fact that I don't buy the premise of the Reapers didn't help (as it is an actual IRL theory), but I can respect it w/in the literature. Unfortunately, only one character in the entire game agrees w/ the premise and he's DLC.

[MrAnthonyDraft]

The theme of the 'current' ending(I say this because it can't be possibly a total end to the ME3, just can't) is fine. The way it was executed was for a lot of people unclear, and thus making this outcry known as "Retake ME3". The real problem is that there is no closure for the final game of Shepard's story.

Personally I understood what was going on by replaying the point where indoctrination began, and they I understood what was up.

[Slayer299]

OP, your thread and your comments show that you really don't know anything nor have you read the actual long list of complaints people are having with the ending of ME3. When I get to the end of *any* game I should not have to sit there and think about "what did this mean?"

Filling out an analysis for you just isn't worth my time so you can try and nitpick it to death while telling me I just get the beauty of ME3's endings and your reply to Texansamurai shows that if you have to explain an ending to a gamer than you (the devs) have screwed up. It's up to the dev to make clear what they want you to see/understand, not leave it to the gamer to 'think about it and figure it out'.

[Slayer299]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

But the thing is... YOUR Shepard does not matter. Bioware wanted Shepards ending to be like this. The character THEY created and allowed you to play.

If that is indeed the case than the option for anything to set for Shepard should have never been in ME series to begin with. Shepard should have been a set char such as Gerrault from the Witcher; with no options to customize the color of his hair much less his background/class/appearance/sex/Paragon/Renegade decisions. Yet the devs stated that it was about "your Shepard" in ME, not their vision for their Shepard. 

"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…"-Mike Gamble.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rogue Unit wrote...
Hang around the forums more. Nobody wants a "Happy Days!" ending. We want an ending the makes sense and doesn't detroy everything setup by the entire series.

You lie. Plenty of posts on BSN betray that many of the complainers are in fact campaigning for just that.

"We have nothing agaisnt a sacrifice" - tehy say - "as long as it isn't X..and as long as the universe ends up like I want".... In other word, as long as it isn't somoen Shep cares about. Meaning it's not a proper sacrifice.



3 choices are enough. And they should have vastly different effects on the galaxy. You are told that. The animation doesn't show it, but you know what will happen.

[Russalka]

I like the idea of the ending, just not the execution.

[durasteel]

The theme of organics vs. synthetics was, at least for most paragons, long since resolved. This theme was so well realized in the Legion and EDI story lines that it really annoyed me when, at the end, that fulfilling resolution was cast aside for an awkward and illogical "must apply space magic and destroy the galaxy!" thing.

Simply put, I had closure on the synthetic/organic dynamic before the ending, and the ending actually removed that sense of closure. Shepard went into the ending scenario focused on saving the galaxy, and was never given the opportunity to do that--all "options" destroy the infrastructure upon which galactic civilization depends.

So, yeah... I definitely think the theme of the ending was complete bollocks.

Modifié par durasteel, 22 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[MDT1]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

But the thing is... YOUR Shepard does not matter. Bioware wanted Shepards ending to be like this. The character THEY created and allowed you to play.

Then they shouldn't have sold it as RPG with advertisment like "your choices matter" and always denied the existence of cannon Shepard.

We just want the game they advertised for.

@ OP:

Also its funny to open such a topic in a no spoiler forum, where any real argumentation would be hindered by the fact it shouldn't contain spoilers. So I apologize for being cryptic now. Pleas answer:

-How could Prothean Scientists enter and manipulate the Citadel unnoticed considering what we learn about the Citadels nature in ME3?

-Why would anyone blindly trust space-Hitler?

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 02:54 .

[AlanC9]

Did they even advertise that Shepard would get an ending he really liked, though? What's possible in the universe and what Shepard wants to accomplish aren't necessarily linked.

I do agree that we need clarification on what happens with the options, though. There are a lot of really strange interpretations kicking around here, so Bio ought to straighten that out.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[MDT1]

AlanC9 wrote...

Did they even advertise that Shepard would get an ending he really liked, though? What's possible in the universe and what Shepard wants to accomplish aren't necessarily linked.

No, so whats your point here?

Edit: I guess Shepard would have "liked" to chill on the beach instead of being confronted with reapers.

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[Vlad1113]

To the OP, you need to get of your horse son Bioware realised they made a faux pas, their PR machine is in overdrive and they have agreed to look at options for closure. You're in the minority for a reason, it was a botched ending the actual ending did not live up to the choices we were told we could make.

You can quote, requote and spit out some smarmy semi intellectual speak and the majority are still not going to like the ending, not because they didn't get it..... because they DID get it and were'nt able to choose anything in it to make it THEIR ending. I could add the odd Normandy escapes while fighting sequence as its an obvious attempt at a closure afterthought, but as its the most obvious hole Im sure you saw it too.

In the spirit of Dr Rays post its time to quit the hype and move on, what happens will happen.

[Vlad1113]

Russalka wrote...

I like the idea of the ending, just not the execution.

Actually having just read that its SPOT on.

[AlanC9]

MDT1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Did they even advertise that Shepard would get an ending he really liked, though? What's possible in the universe and what Shepard wants to accomplish aren't necessarily linked.

No, so whats your point here?

Edit: I guess Shepard would have "liked" to chill on the beach instead of being confronted with reapers.

My point is that arguments like this...

Chaoswind wrote...
I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

 

... don't make sense. Should have quoted it.

As for the more general topic, I'm not a huge fan of the theme. The distinction between organic life and synthetic life isn't rational, and I'm not happy with seeing it made a basic feature of the universe.

Or rather, the people who set up the cycles believed it to be a basic feature of the universe. It's kind of like Lost, where the explanation for a lot of things turns out to simply be that Jacob was an idiot.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[MDT1]

AlanC9 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Did they even advertise that Shepard would get an ending he really liked, though? What's possible in the universe and what Shepard wants to accomplish aren't necessarily linked.

No, so whats your point here?

Edit: I guess Shepard would have "liked" to chill on the beach instead of being confronted with reapers.

My point is that arguments like this...

Chaoswind wrote...
I think after tonight I can see that some people would love the endings, they DO fit with certain Shepard, and for them the whole experience is AWESOME and GOTY worthy, but for the rest of us is a Forced decision that doesn't fit with our Shepards

 

... don't make sense. Should have quoted it.

As for the more general topic, I'm not a huge fan of the theme. The distinction between organic life and synthetic life isn't rational, and I'm not happy with seeing it made a basic feature of the universe.

Or rather, the people who set up the cycles believed it to be a basic feature of the universe. It's kind of like Lost, where the explanation for a lot of things turns out to simply be that Jacob was an idiot.

Ah ok, now I get it.

I think what the original poster meant is that there was a consitency in how paragon Shepard got things done.
Sure it was ultimately his goal to get things done in the end, but he always strived to do it with the least casualtys possible.
In a certain way it would only be consequent to allow him to do this with the ending choice too.

And the ending THEME actually contradicts the Theme of the rest of ME imho.
Sure you can say "that twist is art" but the way its done its more like a cop-out.


Edit: With "you" in my last sentence I refer to nobody specific.

Modifié par MDT1, 22 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[catabuca]

When some people say "the ending theme contradicts the theme of the rest of the trilogy" what do they actually mean? This is an honest question, because as I outlined in my hefty wall of text a couple of pages back, I saw themes present in the ending that had been woven throughout all 3 games. That's not to say those were the only themes in the trilogy, though, so I'm interested to know exactly what theme of the ending some are saying came out of nowhere.

And by 'theme' I mean precisely that. I don't mean specific reason for the reapers reaping, or what the Catalyst is or what the Crucible does. I mean the theme.