35 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

First off, obviously if I"ve played through FOUR times...all clocking in at ~50-70hrs each...I love the game.

When you first start playing things hit you..and you're enjoying it so much you are more apt to overlook flaws...

Now after this many plays...I am just puzzled that a company as talented and high profile as BioWare let some of these things make it into a game that was under development for as long as DA:O was....

----very slight spoilers----

First off - Quests....Shoot a Bow at (x) spot.....Try and find out what's wrong with a certain animal.

- So you're telling me that I can't tell a companion I have with me who has a bow equiped (you can't use a crossbow lol) to fire an arrow for a certain quest?  what? 
- So you're also telling me that a couple skills are pointless to give to companions because they have no real use in game outside of combat mechanics...I can't tell (x) companion who I gave survival to examine and/or try to calm a certain animal......ooook.

both of these are menial, and small..but glaring none the less.  Isn't that the POINT of having a party with a wide berth of skills spread amongst them so that you can handle situations such as this???  guess not if it's not combat related huh....

Second - and my biggest one....Weapon Scaling....they are HIDEOUS..out of place...and not something that should be excusable by a company such as BioWare..Weapons are FAR too large (minus a few) and if you actually look at the handles, characters wouldn't even be able to HOLD most of them.

• Daggers;  Are you kidding me??  they could almost pass as a sword (the typical "shortsword" most games of this type use)  They're TOO LARGE (yes daggers are NOT knives but in DA:O the scale is idiotic.)  What possible justification can you have? animation problems? then you should have reworked them..something..or at least OMIT daggers and just call them shortswords or SOMETHING..but case-in-point handle scaling..covered below.
  
• 2h Weapons; I have no problem with how slow 2h weapons are (even if it is a bit much) HOWEVER..this is another scaling issue...look at Ser Cautherine (sp?) and her sword...the F'n handle is ALMOST AS FAT AS HER FACE...how can anyone GRIP these things and not have them KNOCKED OUT of their hands the first time it makes contact????  The animations are VERY fitting for the Mauls (sledges, whatever)..but for greatswords? the animation shows an obvious sign of weight favored on the TOP of the weapon...really? no..really?
  
•  Bows; Similar to 2h weapons far as the scaling goes...I mean seriously..there's one bow in particular I got at the beginning of the game that my female dalish elf WOULDN'T EVEN BE ABLE TO GET HER HAND AROUND it is so wide..lack of bowstring? seriously?  it looks like trash and something you'd expect from a game two generations ago (if not longer)...engine/animation limitations is no excuse (again consider the company..and development time.)
  
• Crossbows/Staffs; I have little problem with either of these...crossbows have no string as with bows but it's not as glaringly out of place.

Third - Combat Animation Finishers...they're great..for the MOST part...except...say...my Dwarf doing a 2h finisher where he stabs the mob by turning his back and stabbing the weapon behind him....all great..except most of the time the weapon doesn't even connect visually..and if it does it's in the creatures leg.  Also  using an Axe..and killing an Ogre....so my character jabs the blunt TOP of the axe onto the creatuers forehead?  wow...it's just not fitting..I know animation takes a lot of time and testing..but honestly would it have been so hard over the course of the YEARS of development to have this animation differ slighting?  having them jam the..I dunno...axe BLADE down into the creatures head?

Loot - No I don't expect Diablo style loot drops (actually I'm one of the VERY few that don't really care much for that model) however..loot in the game is a joke...stuff in chests are a joke...a wolf carrying a health poultice...or a helm?  really?   This falls into one of the things many complained about Oblivion..and sadly DA:O is just as guilty...random loot finding is extremely dull..it's all just vendor trash.  There also needs to be some more variety on the equipment you find...in the end, regardless of character/companion specs....you're wearing the exact same crap as any previous play..where's the difference we saw in BG?  And why is it possible for me to get the best 1h/2h sword (for all but a mage/arcane warrior) so early in the game (I'm looking at YOU Starfang..if you have Wardens Keep of course..but in all honesty if you want the most out of DA:O there's no real reason not to get released content.)  It's a tad dull using the same weapon for possibly 15+ levels....

Finally - Blood.  I know you're going for gritty..realism...etc..but...blood is WAY overdone...look at human noble origin for perfect example..at the end..when someone important to you is dying...the pool of blood on the ground is hideous..though I first noticed this when I had to kill some rats (in same origin.)  minor gripe..but still there.

--------------------------------------

Well that the gist of most of my "complaints."  I've been a BioWare fanboy for a LONG time...I can't even recall how many times I've played through BG2/ToB doing all side-quests...hell I'd play it even today if I could somehow get it to work in Vista (and if anyone knows how PLEASE let me know.)

Positives - because I HATE making a negative thread..especially about BioWare..my favorite game company...

Engrossing storytelling...TOP NOTCH...EXACTLY what i'd expect from Bio...I haven't been this drawn into a game and it's storyline since..well..Baldur's Gate...plenty of lovable/hate-able characters and moments....so many touching scenes and choices...I haven't felt so close to an NPC/Companion since the days of (yet again) Baldur's Gate 2....again TOP NOTCH..AWESOME.

Combat...again TOP NOTCH..I love the combat engine (for what it is..I'm still one who would PREFER turn-based..but sadly seems those times are gone with RPGs.)  Combat is really fun and engaging (minus the dex bug for archers..but I trust it'll be patched soon..and the hotfix isn't an option imo..as it unbalances some encounters.)

Just my thoughts on all this...I love BioWare and have for a long time.  My first playthrough I was more forgiving of such things because the game overall is so great...however for longevity..these are glaring issues...and NEED to be looked at..as they stain the quality of the game and, imo, Bio's reputation...because a lot of these is, in fact, just plain sloppy.

Thoughts? Agree? Don't? if yes/no how come?  I'm looking for an intelligent discussion on the subject and other points of view (minus childish insults because I, god forbid, found some faults in such a great game.)

And hopefully some kind of un-canned thoughts from a BioWare gal/guy.

Modifié par Suron, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:27 .

[brelrande]

interesting thread,

not much to say about it, im only on my second play through. Still too enthralled in the story to really notice any flaws at the moment.

Im sure once i play a few more with some of the other races I have more to say on this.



Well put though

[wonko33]

Suron wrote...

Second - and my biggest one....Weapon Scaling....they are HIDEOUS..out of place...and not something that should be excusable by a company such as BioWare..Weapons are FAR too large (minus a few) and if you actually look at the handles, characters wouldn't even be able to HOLD most of them.

Hey dude, what game are you playing? The models have humongous hands, they can totally hold these weapons

[LtlMac]

Wow, the part of find most intersting that after 4 playthroughs myself I have seen a lot of things that that slipped through the cracks or could have been impoved on.......and you don't mention a SINGLE one of them. Funny how different people focus on different things.



I guess Bioware knows you can't please everybody and just makes the game they want to make. Seems to work out for them, I would say.

[brelrande]

LtlMac wrote...

Wow, the part of find most intersting that after 4 playthroughs myself I have seen a lot of things that that slipped through the cracks or could have been impoved on.......and you don't mention a SINGLE one of them. Funny how different people focus on different things.

I guess Bioware knows you can't please everybody and just makes the game they want to make. Seems to work out for them, I would say.

Very true, everyone looks at a game differently,
example are the graphics some people say they are the worst they have ever seen, I think they are fabulous

[wepeel_]

Haha, four playthroughs and what annoyed you were weapon model scale and finishers not connecting for certain races? I agree with the above poster, funny indeed. On a personal level, I actually liked that the daggers are fairly big and don't look like kitchen knives.



My main gripes, though I love the game, are all related to unfilled potential with how some followers are handled, and the way what happens in your origin is followed up on throughout the game.

[Matthew Young CT]

1. Daggers should be called short swords, yeah. Why is this a big deal?

2. I haven't paid much attention to the animations but they don't look terribly unrealistic. Handle as big as a woman's face? Yeah, that's what they look like. Women never carried them

3. Again, not unrealistic. Longbows were as tall as a man.

4. Combat finishers are fun. I do wish you could cancel them though, it's frustrating chopping off a hurlocks head (cool though it is) while I get pounded to death.

5. Agree on loot. Should be more stuff on the big critters and in tough chests. OTOH I think they erred in the right direction. I hate games that put swords of awesomeness in some random dudes house.

6. Blood: I don't have the persistent thing on and mostly play zoomed out so maybe that affects it, but I'm quite baffled at all the talk there was about it. Pool of blood? So? That's what happens when you get gutted!

[madal434]

I havnt finished my 1st play through yet..(I hate not having the time) but it looks to me like the majority of the weapons (xcept daggers) are reasonably scaled ( after all the two handed swords in the middle ages had approx 6ft blades and weighed at least 25 - 50 lbs (im not sure about the weight i guess ill google it and make sure) I guess ill have to keep playing at look a little more closely to see what ur talking about (other than the bowstrings, but i dont recall if Neverwinter Knights had bowstrings or not..guess ill reinstall and see)



As for the blood..It seems decent enough. Ill have to check the Human noble origin to see what ur talking about for that e.g. Altho u have to keep in mind that Blood never looks pretty in large quantities..especially when its splashed all over the place

[tkaz85]

Survival also allows you to spot enemies on your minimap (like the Track feat in NWN2). That came in handy more than once.

[Kepha]

Suron wrote...
- So you're also telling me that a couple skills are pointless to give to companions because they have no real use in game outside of combat mechanics...I can't tell (x) companion who I gave survival to examine and/or try to calm a certain animal......ooook.

Actually in that particular quest your companions skills do come into play, its just not explicitly stated in Dialog.  You don't turn to (x) and say "Try and calm/examine this animal" but their survival skill helps you if you try and calm/examine it.  I came upon that quest with one of my companions with one rank in survival, and couldn't calm the animal.  Shortly thereafter that companion leveled up and put another point in survival and then I could calm it.

[Ninjatroll]

Agree on almost everything,



Unable to use companions skills - It works on some missions, when people ask for crafted items (you can still activate the quest by saying that Leliana knows about poisons or Morrigan about herbs) but when the skill is used in the conversation this does not work. Is it a limitaion on how the conversations work or just an oversight? A fix in a patch would be great.



Daggers - Yes, If I would redesign I would rename them shortswords and add a dagger weapon class.



2-Handed - Haven't rely used them yet. But yes, it looked a little silly on Loghains sidekick.



Bows - I haven't noticed, seriously. I know people always complain about it and that I also think it's stupid when I read about it. But It just never bothered me while playing. But sooner or later I would probably be bothered by it.



Combat finishers - There are some problems with them, yes. There where a glitch for me once where both my protagonist and Leliana must have dealt damage at an Ogre at the exact same time since both of them triggered the animation only one of them ended up on top of the ogre thou.



Loot - This always annoy me, in every game. Random loot is ok. But at least make sure animals NEVER EVER drop things like daggers, it's just silly. There is also no reason for fighters to drop Lyrium Potions. I guess you can fix this in mod scripts, but the problem should never have been there.



Blood - Yes it's a little excessive sometimes... mostly during cutscenes when people die and some enemies (rats as you mention and the bears seem to create a small pond of blood when they die...). I don't mind the splatter on the characters that much, but it should have been in larger splats but not as many. I saw a mod that did this and it looked a lot better.



I would also add how the inventory work - Some things can stack, some things don't. I don't know exactly how this work (is there a limit on how many empty bottles you can stack on one inventory slot?) but there are some things that bother me. I would have preferred a system based on weight instead. There is no reason for a heavy chain-mail armor to take up as much space as one single dagger or one single gemstone (the fact that you can stack several gemstones is a poor "solution", why does not different gemstones stack?)



Still all these things said. This is Biowares greatest game since Baldurs Gate 2, and I do think that if Bioware listen to the community and fix some things for squeals/expansions that game will be their new masterpiece.

[Ryukahn]

I can't believe you didn't mention the lack of mage/rogue options, seeing as how you went through the game 4 times.

[amrose2]

I think people are seeing 'dagger' and imagining a tiny kitchen knife or something. Some ancient daggers are 15-20 inches long. It doesn't seem too far a stretch to believe the ones in this game as daggers, especially if they are crafted with combat (and not concealment) in mind.



If that doesn't go for you, just imagine that in Ferelden thats how their daggers are. It is a fantasy world after all Seems silly to get caught up on semantics.

[nicodeemus327]

Not gonna lie but those are some pretty superficial complaints.

[Serenity84]

They said they oversized the weapons so you can still see them when zoomed further out. But it's gone too far. And when zoomed out I don't really care about weapons and animations. It's all about positioning then.

[Alphakiller]

I would actually blame EA... who pushes all their games to release with the "functional" instead of "Perfect" flag set every time.

[Blakes 7]

If you are trying to get bg2 to work in vista try setting the graphics to opengl in the bgconfig settings menu, worked for me

[Matthew Young CT]

It's gone too far for ignorant people who don't realise how huge real life weapons are, anyway.

[metatrans]

its not the weapon size he's complaining about. its the HANDLE size. sure, your Greatsword is like 5 feet long. its massive. but you still have to grip it with normal size human hands. i'm willing to assume epic heroic strength so you can lift a giant sword like that but does that also mean you've got Gorilla hands instead of Human hands?

[LacrimaImber]

Suron wrote...

- So you're also telling me that a couple skills are pointless to give to companions because they have no real use in game outside of combat mechanics...I can't tell (x) companion who I gave survival to examine and/or try to calm a certain animal......ooook.

I'm pretty sure you use your party's skill levels for those dialogue checks.  In Lothering, when asked about poison, my PC didn't have a single point in the poison skill, but I still received the option to accept the quest based upon Leliana having a high enough skill level.  I tested this without her in my party and I didn't receive that option, so I'm almost certain that it was based on her skill and not mine.

Are you sure you had a high enough skill level with one of the members in your current party?  They have to be in your party, they can't help you if they are back at camp.

If that still doesn't work, then I can see how that is a problem.  It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask one of your companions to help you with something like that.  The only exception would be if the dialogue is meant to test your PC's personal growth, i.e. persuade checks, in which case having a companion help you out wouldn't make sense.

[sinosleep]

Just going to chime in on the hotfix issue


This hotfix applies to all creatures in the game, not just the party members. Due to enemies outnumbering the party in most situations, the benefits of better ranged weapons act asymmetric in favor of enemy groups. \\\\\\\\Installing this hotfix will cause a steep increase in difficulty by almost a full level for any encounters that include multiple archers. If you are having trouble with easy or normal difficulty, stay away from this hotfix until we have updated it to offset these effects.


The plan for the final patch is to not address this issue for Hard and Nightmare difficulty, causing an increase in game difficulty on both settings.


So if you play on hard or nightmare, the hotfix essentially IS the final patch. All you are doing is hurting yourself by not using it. I've been using it for some time now and honestly archers don't really have any more effect on the game than they used to since I always target them and mages first any way.

That scattershot group stun is where they hurt you, not damage.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 novembre 2009 - 08:40 .

[MICHELLE7]

There are a lot more flaws than that. I'm on my third play through and it is aggravating. I could be wrong(it wouldn't be the first time lol) but I think Bioware rushed the release of the game. Maybe they wanted to get it out there before Mass Effect 2 was released. ME2 is so highly anticipated maybe they thought DAO would get lost in the shadows if it was released after...at least that's what I am hoping. I would hate to see ME2 come out with as many flaws.

[sinosleep]

brelrande wrote...

LtlMac wrote...

Wow, the part of find most intersting that after 4 playthroughs myself I have seen a lot of things that that slipped through the cracks or could have been impoved on.......and you don't mention a SINGLE one of them. Funny how different people focus on different things.

I guess Bioware knows you can't please everybody and just makes the game they want to make. Seems to work out for them, I would say.

Very true, everyone looks at a game differently,
example are the graphics some people say they are the worst they have ever seen, I think they are fabulous

People complaining about the graphics in Dragon Age must have missed out on Mass Effect or played it on PC. I didn't have a gaming rig when Mass Effect came out (I do now which is why I own Dragon Age for PC) so I bought it on 360, where character literally show up one layer at a time due to HORRENDOUS pop in issues. Dragon Age is a HUGE step up for Bioware, which has never been known for particularly great graphics any way.

p.s. And I loved Mass Effect btw, one of the few rpgs I've ever immediately started a 2nd playthrough upon completion, the others being Knights of the Old Republic and now Dragon Age.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:08 .

[Seraphael]

Suron wrote...

- So you're also telling me that a couple skills are pointless to give to companions because they have no real use in game outside of combat mechanics...I can't tell (x) companion who I gave survival to examine and/or try to calm a certain animal......ooook.

both of these are menial, and small..but glaring none the less.  Isn't that the POINT of having a party with a wide berth of skills spread amongst them so that you can handle situations such as this???  guess not if it's not combat related huh....

I agree with most or all of your points. I'll add my pet grievance to the mix though:

Only the active characters ability is used in checks for spotting traps. Non-controlled team members don't give a warning even if they would've spotted the trap if controlled by the player. I wonder how something obvious like this makes it past six years of development, QA and beta testing.

[sinosleep]

Seraphael wrote...

Suron wrote...

- So you're also telling me that a couple skills are pointless to give to companions because they have no real use in game outside of combat mechanics...I can't tell (x) companion who I gave survival to examine and/or try to calm a certain animal......ooook.

both of these are menial, and small..but glaring none the less.  Isn't that the POINT of having a party with a wide berth of skills spread amongst them so that you can handle situations such as this???  guess not if it's not combat related huh....

I agree with most or all of your points. I'll add my pet grievance to the mix though:

Only the active characters ability is used in checks for spotting traps. Non-controlled team members don't give a warning even if they would've spotted the trap if controlled by the player. I wonder how something obvious like this makes it past six years of development, QA and beta testing.

Leliana warns me about traps all the time. Not as soon as if I was leading with her, but she does give a heads up.