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IGN at it again...


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#251
dointime85

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Reptilian Rob wrote...

cchudoba002 wrote...

This was my response I posted on IGN's forums as a direct response to Colin's latest attack on ending detractors:

I
find it hard to believe that you can't find anyone who views this issue
from the other side, but the way IGN keeps taking this stance is
causing a lot of people to believe that IGN and other major gaming
journalism companies who have reacted similarly are simply in
EA/Bioware's pockets due to advertising revenue. Not saying this is the
case, but I believe you all should be aware of this sentiment. Now here
are some counterpoints to just about everything you said in this video:

I can see how some people may call this a dangerous precedent in
gaming, but I respectfully disagree. What is actually a dangerous
precedent is a company selling a product based on numerous statements
about its ending, and those statements turning out to be entirely false.
It is a dangerous precedent to release a product that has enraged a
significant number of fans and then to simply ignore their opinion. No
one is forcing Bioware into anything. The fans have simply expressed
their opinion, albeit strongly. Bioware has decided that it is in their
best interests to appease them, which is probably good business sense.

The next point I will argue with is "artistic integrity." Many would
argue that games are not a form of art. I won't argue that point. Not
all games are art, but I do believe Mass Effect fits into this category.
However, even artists have a obligation to their customers/ sponsors
once they sell that product for money. Even famous Renaissance artists
such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci had their sponsors, and many world
renowned works of art were commissioned jobs. You better believe if the
artists in Renaissance Florence didn't provide what they were hired to
do, there were problems. Besides, not everyone is asking for outright
change of the ending. They just want it to make sense.  Spoiler ahead:
The whole logic you are given for the existence of the primary
antagonists is this: 'We don't want organics to create synthetics that
wipe out all organic life, so we created synthetics to wipe out all
organic life.' This and numerous other plot holes exist, in an otherwise
water tight plot. It feels rushed and wrong. Bioware has established a
precedent by providing an unrivaled quality in their games and attention
to detail that was inexplicably and nonsensically removed from the
arguably most important part of the entire series. No one is challenging
their "artistic integrity." If anything, fans are asking Bioware to
show some "artistic integrity" by actually completing their work.

And what is this about it "definitely" being a vocal minority that is
asking for new endings? How do you know? Do you have access to some
statistics and demographics that everyone else doesn't? At the very
most, you are speculating, and you should just say so. Even if this is
true however, this "vocal minority" consists of some of Bioware's most
passionate and loyal fans who have invested countless hours and currency
into this trilogy. They are their core fanbase, the ones who care
enough to actually write a massive wall of text like this. These are the
fans they should be most out to please.

I also thought it was funny how you stated how Bioware "can't leave
the ending wide open." That's funny because Bioware said that this was
specifically their intention. They said something along the lines of
(paraphrasing here) 'because this is the last of the trilogy, we can
come to wildly different conclusions.' The exact opposite of "leaving it
wide open."

Also, how can you say this sets a "dangerous precedent" for "minor
developers without the same clout as Bioware." Sorry, but a minor
developer without the same kind of clout as Bioware wouldn't get
anywhere near this kind of response. They wouldn't have the same
passionate, dedicated fanbase who would actually care. If this was just
about any other game, most players would simply shrug it off and move
along as Colin said he did with the ending to Resistance 3, which is a
typical on rails FPS which isn't even comparable to a story-centric
choice driven RPG like Mass Effect.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks to anyone who actually reads
this. I just thought IGN readers/viewers deserved to see some of the
points of the other side, since IGN doesn't have any staff who are
capable of providing our view. I also wished to demonstrate that Retake
supporters are not all whining crying "entitled" fat babies that Colin
portrayed us as in his last video about this controversy.

+1 for massive truth.


Very well put and in the right tone, too.

#252
Danielsun2

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Cody211282 wrote...

Pelle6666 wrote...

What an ass! "A vocal super minority" WTF does that even mean?


It's basicly him complaning that people don't agree with him.

Honestly people like him are the reason why I hid that I am a gamer to most people, and that I'm also ashamed of most my generation.



This ^^

The guy is so egotistical it's a joke, I used to respect IGN but after seeing how they have reacted with this situation I just find them to be a waste of space

As for Ray Muyzka I have gained respect for him, for actually listening to the community (even though the statement did seem like a bit of a spin),

can we tell IGN to sod off?

#253
killnoob

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name-calling and insulting pro-ending journalists? I'm game, as long as we get what we want right?

#254
killnoob

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name-calling and insulting pro-ending journalists? I'm game, as long as we get what we want right?

#255
Freestate2nd

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http://uk.ps3.ign.co.../1221273p1.html

IGN CONFIRMS LITERALLY

Mass Effect 3: New Ending Incoming

#256
sargon1986

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Oh my god... what a complete and utter load of CRAP. Extremely small vocal minority? That is not true and they know it...

#257
Cody211282

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killnoob wrote...

name-calling and insulting pro-ending journalists? I'm game, as long as we get what we want right?


I'm only insulting them because of how unprofessional they have been handing themselves. They want to be called journalists and be though of as professionals then they better start acting like they are and not like they have been.

#258
Danielsun2

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@cchudoba002 you sir are a god, :)

#259
Dr_Hello

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killnoob wrote...

name-calling and insulting pro-ending journalists? I'm game, as long as we get what we want right?


Are they really journalists? Or commentators with opinions like the rest of (most of) us?

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 22 mars 2012 - 12:06 .


#260
yuncas

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Ahh... this guy again. So is everything he says speculation without supporting facts or am I just dense? He speaks like this is art for arts sake or underground music. It is art, but art made in great part for the generation of revenue, which makes it a product to be consumed. And consumers have a sacrosanct right by way of capitalism to take issue with a good or service that does not meet their expectations. You'd think a guy with notaxation and the gadsden flag slapped on everything would understand free market principles better.

#261
Cloaking_Thane

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Well he's just wrong throughout the entire video. Shame people cant see that the current ending doesn't make logical sense,let alone sense for the finale of this trilogy

#262
2484Stryker

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Guess they won't even bother uploading this clip on youtube with all the dislikes & negative comments they get.

Why am I not surprised that one of their latest videos on there is about Diana Allers' Romance scene?

IGN, you can't even fail properly - you fail at failing.

#263
Guest_jojimbo_*

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the ign writer is a troll lol lol. ign can suck my toe, their write ups and reviews are worthless trash, and every time i see, or read another dodgy article by some nobody looking for a semblance of notoriety and controversy, i want to spew in his/her face.
IGN gtfo ------------>

#264
Cody211282

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yuncas wrote...

Ahh... this guy again. So is everything he says speculation without supporting facts or am I just dense? He speaks like this is art for arts sake or underground music. It is art, but art made in great part for the generation of revenue, which makes it a product to be consumed. And consumers have a sacrosanct right by way of capitalism to take issue with a good or service that does not meet their expectations. You'd think a guy with notaxation and the gadsden flag slapped on everything would understand free market principles better.


Honestly most people who have that stuff know as much about it as most people with a Che shirt.

#265
yuncas

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2484Stryker wrote...

Guess they won't even bother uploading this clip on youtube with all the dislikes & negative comments they get.

Why am I not surprised that one of their latest videos on there is about Diana Allers' Romance scene?

IGN, you can't even fail properly - you fail at failing.



That right there is gold.

#266
McAllyster

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I think Colin doesn't know anything about the "RPG" genre.

There is no "artistic integrity" in the case of an RPG.

#267
Tleining

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cchudoba002 wrote...

I also thought it was funny how you stated how Bioware "can't leave
the ending wide open." That's funny because Bioware said that this was
specifically their intention. They said something along the lines of
(paraphrasing here) 'because this is the last of the trilogy, we can
come to wildly different conclusions.' The exact opposite of "leaving it
wide open."


maybe i'm too tired to think logically, but i think you missed a "not" there.

aside from that, signed.

#268
Sawtooth357

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I never really trusted IGN reviews but used the site as a sort of game catalogue, something to point out new games in development and such. Since their little tirades I don't even want to do that. I need a new gaming site.

#269
Deschi

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well he sounded more decent than in his first video at least. and also: bioware has not changed anything and i am still sure that they can keep their "artistic" vision and make it just more perfect.

has c. moriaty never heard abot those different cuts of blade runner?

It's almot like C. Moriaty was sitting at the game's author's room when they were deciding about the ending and KNOWS that everybody at Bioware was fully satisfied with the ending? Who knows? Maybe most were? Maybe also at Bioware some or even a few people thought it felt unfinished and are reliefed that they now get the chance (and fees) to work on it again?

Pretty sure he doesn't know!

Modifié par Deschi, 22 mars 2012 - 12:16 .


#270
ergonomalous

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This is what i see whenever Colon Moriarty opens his mouth.



#271
cynicalsaint1

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You guys of course realize you're just giving them more page hits, right?

#272
Elvwood

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IGN
Idiots Going Nowhere
Illogical Gamming Network
Insectuous Granny Nursers
Impotent Geeks & Nerds
Ingesting Genital Nuts
Infants Gnawing Nipples

I could go on but you get the point
I think they are purposely trying to generate rage to turn us into what the claim we are already
Stay cool and remember they are people too
In an effort to be nice I am going help them with all the Sh.t they have been saying
and donate all of my used toilet paper to them

#273
Deschi

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Guys come on, IGN position is also not mine and I don't appreciate the way they talk and pretend to be smarter than anybody else.... but keep it civil. Let's try not to insult anyone

Let's break this vicious circle!

Modifié par Deschi, 22 mars 2012 - 12:20 .


#274
Dr_Hello

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yuncas wrote...

Ahh... this guy again. So is everything he says speculation without supporting facts or am I just dense? He speaks like this is art for arts sake or underground music. It is art, but art made in great part for the generation of revenue, which makes it a product to be consumed. And consumers have a sacrosanct right by way of capitalism to take issue with a good or service that does not meet their expectations. You'd think a guy with notaxation and the gadsden flag slapped on everything would understand free market principles better.


It's bothering that he is putting Art into the mix and making Art at the center of the issue. Leave Art out of this.
This isn't a debate about Art.

To me, of course BioWare has great artistic integrity and talents, but they also have the quality of great humility, in this case for acknowledging their audience, the fan base, and understanding the creator-audience interaction and collaboration. Seeing how they tweak the Mass Effect games based on fan feedback as the series evolve is one of the strengths and wisdom of BioWare. That has nothing to do with artistic integrity. It is creator-audience interaction and collaboration.

What that IGN Colin individual is clearly not getting is, a gaming and storytelling experience like Mass Effect thrives on its ability to provide gamers choices and make them feel they are shaping their own path, that they 'are' Shepard. But in the end, the series didn't succeed to complete that. Is that so hard for Colin to understand or at least contemplate?
And the plot holes, are they far-fetched?

Back to art and games,
Yes games can be an art form (not all, they are crappy, commercially bastardised ones out there).
Yes game making is an artistic discipline as the art of game making is valid.
No games are not art, it's too vague of an argument. Who ever says 'games are art' can only create mixed and divided thoughts among people.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 22 mars 2012 - 12:35 .


#275
nevar00

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killnoob wrote...

name-calling and insulting pro-ending journalists? I'm game, as long as we get what we want right?


Pro-ending journalists?  Nah.

Obnoxiously smug douchebags with awful logic?  Yeah that sounds good to me actually.