289 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Hello]

Deschi wrote...

Guys come on, IGN position is also not mine and I don't appreciate the way they talk and pretend to be smarter than anybody else.... but keep it civil. Let's try not to insult anyone

Let's break this vicious circle!

Agreed.

I keep saying, if you call yourself a journalist, then write facts, be analytical, inform your readers; don't spread your opinions and make them holy.

An opiniated/biased online-based journalist is just another blogger.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 22 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[Yttrian]

This video has no real content, ignores the core argument favouring deflection and uses ad hominem, generalisation and arguing-from-ignorance fallacies repeated multiple times throughout.

I would go on, but the above stands on it's own merit.

[Swisspease]

Any respect I had left for anything IGN is now totally gone forever.

They are just ignoring truth to post their own skewed views

[Rohirrim]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

cchudoba002 wrote...

This was my response I posted on IGN's forums as a direct response to Colin's latest attack on ending detractors:

I
find it hard to believe that you can't find anyone who views this issue
from the other side, but the way IGN keeps taking this stance is
causing a lot of people to believe that IGN and other major gaming
journalism companies who have reacted similarly are simply in
EA/Bioware's pockets due to advertising revenue. Not saying this is the
case, but I believe you all should be aware of this sentiment. Now here
are some counterpoints to just about everything you said in this video:

I can see how some people may call this a dangerous precedent in
gaming, but I respectfully disagree. What is actually a dangerous
precedent is a company selling a product based on numerous statements
about its ending, and those statements turning out to be entirely false.
It is a dangerous precedent to release a product that has enraged a
significant number of fans and then to simply ignore their opinion. No
one is forcing Bioware into anything. The fans have simply expressed
their opinion, albeit strongly. Bioware has decided that it is in their
best interests to appease them, which is probably good business sense.

The next point I will argue with is "artistic integrity." Many would
argue that games are not a form of art. I won't argue that point. Not
all games are art, but I do believe Mass Effect fits into this category.
However, even artists have a obligation to their customers/ sponsors
once they sell that product for money. Even famous Renaissance artists
such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci had their sponsors, and many world
renowned works of art were commissioned jobs. You better believe if the
artists in Renaissance Florence didn't provide what they were hired to
do, there were problems. Besides, not everyone is asking for outright
change of the ending. They just want it to make sense.  Spoiler ahead:
The whole logic you are given for the existence of the primary
antagonists is this: 'We don't want organics to create synthetics that
wipe out all organic life, so we created synthetics to wipe out all
organic life.' This and numerous other plot holes exist, in an otherwise
water tight plot. It feels rushed and wrong. Bioware has established a
precedent by providing an unrivaled quality in their games and attention
to detail that was inexplicably and nonsensically removed from the
arguably most important part of the entire series. No one is challenging
their "artistic integrity." If anything, fans are asking Bioware to
show some "artistic integrity" by actually completing their work.

And what is this about it "definitely" being a vocal minority that is
asking for new endings? How do you know? Do you have access to some
statistics and demographics that everyone else doesn't? At the very
most, you are speculating, and you should just say so. Even if this is
true however, this "vocal minority" consists of some of Bioware's most
passionate and loyal fans who have invested countless hours and currency
into this trilogy. They are their core fanbase, the ones who care
enough to actually write a massive wall of text like this. These are the
fans they should be most out to please.

I also thought it was funny how you stated how Bioware "can't leave
the ending wide open." That's funny because Bioware said that this was
specifically their intention. They said something along the lines of
(paraphrasing here) 'because this is the last of the trilogy, we can
come to wildly different conclusions.' The exact opposite of "leaving it
wide open."

Also, how can you say this sets a "dangerous precedent" for "minor
developers without the same clout as Bioware." Sorry, but a minor
developer without the same kind of clout as Bioware wouldn't get
anywhere near this kind of response. They wouldn't have the same
passionate, dedicated fanbase who would actually care. If this was just
about any other game, most players would simply shrug it off and move
along as Colin said he did with the ending to Resistance 3, which is a
typical on rails FPS which isn't even comparable to a story-centric
choice driven RPG like Mass Effect.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks to anyone who actually reads
this. I just thought IGN readers/viewers deserved to see some of the
points of the other side, since IGN doesn't have any staff who are
capable of providing our view. I also wished to demonstrate that Retake
supporters are not all whining crying "entitled" fat babies that Colin
portrayed us as in his last video about this controversy.

+1 for massive truth.

Well said.

[Haus of Dye]

Captiosus77 wrote...

Of course IGN would see it as "a dangerous precedent" because it will absolutely out them as the industry shills they are and would give consumers an increased amount of power over "industry insiders".

It threatens their very way of life and they're scared.
Good, I say.

Pretty much this

[Thompson family]

Clearly this IGN guy is indoctrinated.

[Iwillbeback]

pavi132 wrote...

Oh it's that dbag again. Great.

Pretty much, I wanna slap him

[Spectre Hal Jordan]

It's IGN. They and nearly every other "gaming journalist" are in the companies' in pockets. One of IGN's employees in the game, and people expect them to be objective?

[2484Stryker]

I think Colin should just make a separate video explaining in a succinct & coherent manner exactly why the ending is so profound & adheres to Bioware's original promises regarding it.

I can readily accept that there are many people out there who are smarter than me. Hey, Colin could be one of them. Why doesn't he just post a video explaining exactly why the rest of us should all love & shed tears over the ending as it is, and then we can all avoid having to listen to his voice ever again.

[Shadow2G]

I agree about being wary of the gaming media in the future in light of the many positive reviews for ME3, but do stay civil with your comments about IGN. Even if they're being less than polite or informed when discussing us. The moral high ground counts for a lot in this kind of publicity struggle.

[Solduri]

Spectre Hal Jordan wrote...

It's IGN. They and nearly every other "gaming journalist" are in the companies' in pockets. One of IGN's employees in the game, and people expect them to be objective?

agreed 

[Richard 060]

Anyone else love the irony of guy named Colin Moriarty saying that creators revising the ending of their work due to fan outcry sets a 'dangerous precendent'?

(For those who don't know, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle intended to bow out from writing Sherlock Holmes with 'The Adventure of the Final Problem', with Holmes and Moriarty both apparently dead at the end. After eight years of fan outcry, he relented, and wrote what became the most popular of the Holmes stories, 'The Hound of the Baskervilles', set before Holmes death.

That still wasn't good enough for the readership, though, and so Conan Doyle revised his stance yet again, ret-conning Holmes' death with 'The Adventure of the Empty House', and penning several more now-classic stories with the character. And all because the fans complained!)

Yep, this is a 'dangerous precendent', alright. Completely unheard of in the history of great fictional works, even...

/sarcasm off 

[prem0nition]

Richard 060 wrote...

Anyone else love the irony of guy named Colin Moriarty saying that creators revising the ending of their work due to fan outcry sets a 'dangerous precendent'?

(For those who don't know, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle intended to bow out from writing Sherlock Holmes with 'The Adventure of the Final Problem', with Holmes and Moriarty both apparently dead at the end. After eight years of fan outcry, he relented, and wrote what became the most popular of the Holmes stories, 'The Hound of the Baskervilles', set before Holmes death.

That still wasn't good enough for the readership, though, and so Conan Doyle revised his stance yet again, ret-conning Holmes' death with 'The Adventure of the Empty House', and penning several more now-classic stories with the character. And all because the fans complained!)

Yep, this is a 'dangerous precendent', alright. Completely unheard of in the history of great fictional works, even...

/sarcasm off 

*cheers*

[Thompson family]

Shadow2G wrote...

I agree about being wary of the gaming media in the future in light of the many positive reviews for ME3, but do stay civil with your comments about IGN. Even if they're being less than polite or informed when discussing us. The moral high ground counts for a lot in this kind of publicity struggle.

You make a good point, Shadow2G, but I do have a quibble: The great reviews of ME3 aren't nearly so embarrassing to the gaming press in general and IGN in particular as the clear decision to side with their advertisers rather than simply remain objective in their "reporting" on the matter.

From reading this forum, I take it that there's an IGN guy who keeps blathering on about how BioWare can do no wrong. He's sadly entirely unaware of how this looks when a member of the organization's staff WAS A CAST MEMBER OF THE GAME. How can he NOT be conscious of his complete lack of credibility here?

It boggles the mind. Frankly, I wonder if indoctrination is involved.

BioWare's successful success at putting IGN in it's pocket is now an embarrassment.

[Estherra Drack]

Nuclear Pete wrote...

I respect his views, but he is misinformed (nicest way I can put it).

Changing ficiton is nothing new. Others have listed Fallout 3 and Prince of Persia. But what about films:

Star Wars
Lord of the Rings
Blade Runner
Donnie Darko
Metropolis
Apocalypse Now Redux

All of these films were changed after release.

Highlander 2 was changed also...not that it helped. Just saying.