289 réponses à ce sujet

[Edrick1976]

Is he serious????? I mean he cant be seriously thinking its a bad call on BioWares part to do what their custmer player base wants..... We keep them in bussness for crying out loude.

[cmj428]

IGN is actually posting unverified information as fact.
They say in their video that the endings are being changed for sure and that we will have to pay for it via DLC.
Both of these statements are not what BioWare has confimed so far.

[Skybree]

LordSlavius wrote...

Dridengx has been an unrepentent troll from the beginning. He doesn't agree that the ending suck so rather then engage in constructive debate on the matter with those who disagree with him he instead belittles, insults and just generally aggrevates to try and make himself feel like a bigger man.

Stop engaging him in conversation and he'll eventually return to his bridge.

Dridengx is probably a Colin in real life ... and with a face that Ugly .. i bet he pays for lady company ...

Opps - keeping it all civil  (my Bad)

Kia Kaha!

[The Night Mammoth]

Funny thing is, no one is for Retake Movement but.... Angry Joe, Gamefront, and..........yeah that's it.

Forbes has reported favorably. Angry Joe has too. 

What makes them actually matter? They aren't writing for sites plastered with ME3 advertisment, so they aren't invested in the game's success, like IGN. 

Who's against Retake? everyone.

If by 'everyone' you mean a bunch of false journalists  basically payed to give half decent reviews. 

What actually connects them all though? Not a single one addresses the issues the fans actually have with the ending. It's all about "gamer entitlement" and "artistic integrity" and "vocal minority". Also known as; a bunch of easily dismissable strawmen. They talk about the fact that people are complaining, not about the complaints themselves. 

Regardless, I'd take the opinons of $80,000 raised for charity and 50,000 loyal fans over a few news sites. 

Congrats, though, you cried yourself to FTC, BBB

One guy did, and was decried by the movement he supports because of it. It's his right, but it isn't right. 

Nice try. 

Refunds, took control of forums, and wrote letters, did petitions, and got your voice out there.. pity its all for a video game ending lol and not something worth a damn.. like political movement,  an election, to create a law, to save someone on death row etc

Says volumes really. 

Sensationlist.
Logically fallacious.
Ad homenim. 

That's all your argument really is. About the same as Colin Moriarty's, really. Complain about the fact that people are complaining, rather than the validity of the complaints. 

I mean, you're here, complaining about the complainers. Have you tried to drum up support for anything like that? No, you probably just spend your time on the forums playing Devil's advocate instead of the apparent useful things you listed. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 21 mars 2012 - 11:23 .

[parico]

Colin made alot of good points especially about fans being able to force developers into changing their art or story. He is also right about it being a silent majority that hate the ending and want a new one cmon this games sold millions of copies I don't see millions of bad customer reviews, or millions of people protesting only a few thousand so I hate to say it the change the ending movement is the minority. I didn't like it however it was their art and they chose to do a bad job. What good does a change 6 months from now really do other than cost me another $10.

[MikeRoz]

Maybe I'm not keeping up with the forum fast enough, but both of these people state pretty clearly that Bioware is releasing alternative endings. All the statements I've seen at best imply we'll get clarifications or questions answered. They haven't ruled out or confirmed alternate or replaced endings. Am I missing a statement, does IGN have access to information we don't, or are they making this up?

[AzaZeLgaming]

terdferguson123 wrote...

If this succeeds, this will serve as an example that if enough people complain fiction will be changed or else.

Indeed, just think about it ... if we can pull this off, then maybe the devs start finally listening the customers and fanbase, instead worshipping those corporate douche bags and their nonsensical publishing deadlines. ^^ , horrific!!

Modifié par AzaZeLgaming, 21 mars 2012 - 11:24 .

[vrumpt]

He does make some valid points that are not to be taken lightly.

That said, the only parts of the game that we have issue with are the ones where the quality is just so different from the rest of the game, and its at the most important part of the game as well to the point where you can argue that we weren't given what we were promised by the developers.

[Nuclear Pete]

MikeRoz wrote...

Maybe I'm not keeping up with the forum fast enough, but both of these people state pretty clearly that Bioware is releasing alternative endings. All the statements I've seen at best imply we'll get clarifications or questions answered. They haven't ruled out or confirmed alternate or replaced endings. Am I missing a statement, does IGN have access to information we don't, or are they making this up?

They are making it up. Muzyka never said they will create alternate endings.

Bit of an overreaction

Modifié par Nuclear Pete, 21 mars 2012 - 11:28 .

[Asedious]

Now I see why they keep doing their stupid "top 25" lists, even when their users go against them 95% of the time...

[cmj428]

Why don't the people who are still venting anger deflect some of it onto IGN for a while for this crap while BioWare works on our endings.

[Elyiia]

"Multiple endings might result in some fans having a sequel and some not"
You mean like how you can die in ME2? No one had a problem with that because it was your choice to do so.

[Aweus]

parico wrote...

Colin made alot of good points especially about fans being able to force developers into changing their art or story. He is also right about it being a silent majority that hate the ending and want a new one cmon this games sold millions of copies I don't see millions of bad customer reviews, or millions of people protesting only a few thousand so I hate to say it the change the ending movement is the minority. I didn't like it however it was their art and they chose to do a bad job. What good does a change 6 months from now really do other than cost me another $10.

So, by analogy, if there is some public issue that people do not like, and the country has 300mln population. Does this issue only become valid after more than 150mln people are out on the streets protesting? I am sure you know what representation means. Surely, BSN is biased and I think more than 10% people liked the ending but bias also has limits.

And if you dont like this idea of DLC just dont buy it when it comes. Same as I wont buy pure multiplayer DLC since that is not my idea of fun in ME.

[shepskisaac]

I get his POV and understand it, however, this is simply not a precedence. Fallout 3, Prince of Persia 2008 both did this already, with Fallout 3 creators especially openly admitting it was done because of fans. Ultimately, it's Bioware's decision to make. Not IGN's.

And I don't really buy they couldn't find a single person who is happy with Bioware's decision. I mean seriously, what kind of debate it is if only a representant of one POV is talking?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[Berserkuh]

parico wrote...

Colin made alot of good points especially about fans being able to force developers into changing their art or story. He is also right about it being a silent majority that hate the ending and want a new one cmon this games sold millions of copies I don't see millions of bad customer reviews, or millions of people protesting only a few thousand so I hate to say it the change the ending movement is the minority. I didn't like it however it was their art and they chose to do a bad job. What good does a change 6 months from now really do other than cost me another $10.

It's 50 000 people that liked the Facebook page. I didn't like it, I still support the movement. 

It's also 80 000 $ raised for charity, which can attract HUGE attention.

AND it's also a bunch of pretty serious journalism websites/bloggers. Forbes, Angry Joe, Gameinformer, etc.

[Zing Freelancer]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

http://www.ign.com/v...erous-precedent

am I the only one who watches these and can argue every point they make.

and I find it hard to believe they found NO ONE who supported Biowares decision. Complete bull

I used to consider games art, but now with IGN and BioWare mouthing off about it... If they continue in that path without clarifying what ART in games are, they are going to make people snear at the mear mention of "games & art".

Besides, there must be drawn a line when ART stops being CORPORATE BUSSINESS. Imagine what art Mona Lisa would be if the head of the painting was missing.

[jess05]

Typical behavior if you want something to go away.

You play it down, and belittle it so as it doesn't appear to be a threat.
If this were in fact true, there would be no need to draw attention to it and make it seem as ainsignificant, minority issue in the first place.

its Circular logic.
Kinda like I created sythetics to kill you so you wont be killed by sythetics.

[The Night Mammoth]

parico wrote...

Colin made alot of good points especially about fans being able to force developers into changing their art or story.

Art is malleable. There isn't a single rule, verbal, written, assumed, that says art cannot be changed based on criticism. 

Games are entirely different. It's a consumer product. 

He is also right about it being a silent majority that hate the ending and want a new one cmon this games sold millions of copies I don't see millions of bad customer reviews, or millions of people protesting only a few thousand so I hate to say it the change the ending movement is the minority.

Something which can't be proved nor disproved. 

Except with perhaps, a half valid poll, for instance. 

Like the one IGN actually hosted. Low sampling bias, large sampling range, relatively neutral, perhaps even biased against the consensus, host, and a large sample size. 

All the basics of a fairly valid poll. Guess what the result was. 

I didn't like it however it was their art and they chose to do a bad job. What good does a change 6 months from now really do other than cost me another $10.

What good does it do? Allows the consumer an even stronger precedent against shoddy game development. Appeases the imprtant part of a developers fanbase and nought but improves their public image. Slaps arrogant fools like Colin Moriarty across the face. 

People who don't want their ending changed don't have to download the DLC.

Everyone's happy. 

[nevar00]

Berserkuh wrote...

parico wrote...

Colin made alot of good points especially about fans being able to force developers into changing their art or story. He is also right about it being a silent majority that hate the ending and want a new one cmon this games sold millions of copies I don't see millions of bad customer reviews, or millions of people protesting only a few thousand so I hate to say it the change the ending movement is the minority. I didn't like it however it was their art and they chose to do a bad job. What good does a change 6 months from now really do other than cost me another $10.

It's 50 000 people that liked the Facebook page. I didn't like it, I still support the movement. 

It's also 80 000 $ raised for charity, which can attract HUGE attention.

AND it's also a bunch of pretty serious journalism websites/bloggers. Forbes, Angry Joe, Gameinformer, etc.

Gameinformer weighed in with support?  I was wondering what their take would be on this: I assumed they'd back IGN considering they gave the game a 10/10.  Anyone have a link?

[parico]

What ever its a video game. Its sad that all these people don't put this effort into something worthwhile like lowering gas prices or feeding homeless people. I come here looking for info about how to play the game and all the threads are babies whining about endings. 130000 out of 1 million is not a majority..... It just those that choose to whine getting misplaced attention.

[StevenG_CT]

I understand the argument about compromising artistic integrity but in my opinion that should only come into play if Bioware actually removed the existing ending and made the change mandatory for all users. From what I can tell this isn't going to happen as IGN stated in the video that the additional options will only be available as paid DLC. If that is the case then why should there be outrage against it?

[comanche warior]

Companies like IGN GameInformer etc are sponsored by the big gaming companies thats why they give such good reviews. So dont take anything that they say for fact and dont take it seriously. All they are doing is trying to ****** us off and tear us down to make us give up. Hold the line.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

pfft video won't load

[Stormcroft]

LOL look at all the fanboys stroking his **** on his twitter page

https://twitter.com/#!/notaxation

[cchudoba002]

This was my response I posted on IGN's forums as a direct response to Colin's latest attack on ending detractors:

I
find it hard to believe that you can't find anyone who views this issue
from the other side, but the way IGN keeps taking this stance is
causing a lot of people to believe that IGN and other major gaming
journalism companies who have reacted similarly are simply in
EA/Bioware's pockets due to advertising revenue. Not saying this is the
case, but I believe you all should be aware of this sentiment. Now here
are some counterpoints to just about everything you said in this video:

I can see how some people may call this a dangerous precedent in
gaming, but I respectfully disagree. What is actually a dangerous
precedent is a company selling a product based on numerous statements
about its ending, and those statements turning out to be entirely false.
It is a dangerous precedent to release a product that has enraged a
significant number of fans and then to simply ignore their opinion. No
one is forcing Bioware into anything. The fans have simply expressed
their opinion, albeit strongly. Bioware has decided that it is in their
best interests to appease them, which is probably good business sense.

The next point I will argue with is "artistic integrity." Many would
argue that games are not a form of art. I won't argue that point. Not
all games are art, but I do believe Mass Effect fits into this category.
However, even artists have a obligation to their customers/ sponsors
once they sell that product for money. Even famous Renaissance artists
such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci had their sponsors, and many world
renowned works of art were commissioned jobs. You better believe if the
artists in Renaissance Florence didn't provide what they were hired to
do, there were problems. Besides, not everyone is asking for outright
change of the ending. They just want it to make sense.  Spoiler ahead:
The whole logic you are given for the existence of the primary
antagonists is this: 'We don't want organics to create synthetics that
wipe out all organic life, so we created synthetics to wipe out all
organic life.' This and numerous other plot holes exist, in an otherwise
water tight plot. It feels rushed and wrong. Bioware has established a
precedent by providing an unrivaled quality in their games and attention
to detail that was inexplicably and nonsensically removed from the
arguably most important part of the entire series. No one is challenging
their "artistic integrity." If anything, fans are asking Bioware to
show some "artistic integrity" by actually completing their work.

And what is this about it "definitely" being a vocal minority that is
asking for new endings? How do you know? Do you have access to some
statistics and demographics that everyone else doesn't? At the very
most, you are speculating, and you should just say so. Even if this is
true however, this "vocal minority" consists of some of Bioware's most
passionate and loyal fans who have invested countless hours and currency
into this trilogy. They are their core fanbase, the ones who care
enough to actually write a massive wall of text like this. These are the
fans they should be most out to please.

I also thought it was funny how you stated how Bioware "can't leave
the ending wide open." That's funny because Bioware said that this was
specifically their intention. They said something along the lines of
(paraphrasing here) 'because this is the last of the trilogy, we can
come to wildly different conclusions.' The exact opposite of "leaving it
wide open."

Also, how can you say this sets a "dangerous precedent" for "minor
developers without the same clout as Bioware." Sorry, but a minor
developer without the same kind of clout as Bioware wouldn't get
anywhere near this kind of response. They wouldn't have the same
passionate, dedicated fanbase who would actually care. If this was just
about any other game, most players would simply shrug it off and move
along as Colin said he did with the ending to Resistance 3, which is a
typical on rails FPS which isn't even comparable to a story-centric
choice driven RPG like Mass Effect.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks to anyone who actually reads
this. I just thought IGN readers/viewers deserved to see some of the
points of the other side, since IGN doesn't have any staff who are
capable of providing our view. I also wished to demonstrate that Retake
supporters are not all whining crying "entitled" fat babies that Colin
portrayed us as in his last video about this controversy.