243 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaBadExample]

ragnorok87 wrote...

ign deserves no validation at all. they are paid by gaming developers and publishers to give reviews.

[SirRiot]

Gigamantis wrote...

sirriot wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

You don't have to like art, but if you insist on taking control away from the artist you're wrong, period.  It doesn't belong to you and it's not your right.  I personally think what you're attempting to force Bioware to do is disgusting and childish. 

Still, just my opinions.  They had just better charge you all some money for this new ending. 

We've always been in control of the plot (IE the art) since the first game. You can't even apply that anology because we've been part of this "Story" all along...how can you say it's wrong when we've been doing it all along

You've always had the choices they gave you and only had control within the limited scope they allowed.  They decide the different iterations they wanted to be possible, and for the definitive end I'd imagine they had a definitive result they wanted. 

You still had choices and effected it, but in the end they wanted the series to end on their terms.  When a project belongs to you then you should at least have that right. 

I see you have already made up your mind and I have no intention of changing it. I do however respectfully disagree with where you stand on the issue.

[Emptypockets319]

All I got from IGN was them saying fans are whinners and stupid and Bioware doesn't know how to run there company.

[Lea-Anne]

Honestly I would be more disapointed in Bioware if they cave into the demands for a new or better ending. The ending sucked to me, but I accept it as is. They developed it, I didn't care for it, but I don't hate the game. I think giving in to people who complain about the ending gives gamers too much power. Where does it end when entitlement is envolved?

[SpiderFan1217]

I agree with Collin. I'll wait to see what Bioware is gonna do, but I've lost a little respect for them as well.

[Oni Changas]

The PLC wrote...

If I released an album with my music, and my so called 'fans' started to yell at me to change the last few tracks, I would just tell them to **** off. Really. You din't like my album? Fine, sell it. Give it away. Burn it, I don't care. But don't you dare tell me how to do my stuff.

Except a videogame is interactive media, and made for other people's enjoyment. This particular one was falsely advertised and ends in such a way that is so counterproductive and inconsistent to its whole player oriented journey across three releases and hundreds of hours of gameplay that it caused most fans to call them out on it's failure to capture the essence of itself.

[Cmdr Pwn]

Obrusnine wrote...

Seriously, who does this guy think he is? He "lost respect for" Bioware because they saw what was wrong with their art? I don't get this guys logic.

He calls us the vocal minority?

Because IGN and the people that work for IGN are basically licking BioWare's collective butthole by defending whatever content they put out.  I mean they have one of their own employees or former employee in the game.......

Modifié par Cmdr Pwn, 22 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[dubdevo]

its IGN. I expect nothing less from them.

[Gigamantis]

OniTYME wrote...

The PLC wrote...

If I released an album with my music, and my so called 'fans' started to yell at me to change the last few tracks, I would just tell them to **** off. Really. You din't like my album? Fine, sell it. Give it away. Burn it, I don't care. But don't you dare tell me how to do my stuff.

Except a videogame is interactive media, and made for other people's enjoyment. This particular one was falsely advertised and ends in such a way that is so counterproductive and inconsistent to its whole player oriented journey across three releases and hundreds of hours of gameplay that it caused most fans to call them out on it's failure to capture the essence of itself.

Stop with the falsely advertised crap, that's not what happened at all.  The story was interactive; right to the very end your decisions effected what happened.  You didn't like the ending, which is your right, but STOP trying to turn this into something it's not.  Stop trying to invent some kind of legal precedent for your poorly constructed opinions. 

[android654]

The PLC wrote...

If I released an album with my music, and my so called 'fans' started to yell at me to change the last few tracks, I would just tell them to **** off. Really. You din't like my album? Fine, sell it. Give it away. Burn it, I don't care. But don't you dare tell me how to do my stuff.

Everyone who listened to Broken Social Scene and Regina Spektor before 2005 would like a word with you.

If you put yourself in the public sector as an entertainer or distributor of a product and acquire fans, then you'll receive criticism. So deal with it, because if you tell your fans to f**k off for telling you your new style isn't up to snuff, you'll have no fans very quickly.

[Salis777]

Gigamantis wrote...

You don't have to like art, but if you insist on taking control away from the artist you're wrong, period.  It doesn't belong to you and it's not your right.  I personally think what you're attempting to force Bioware to do is disgusting and childish. 

Still, just my opinions.  They had just better charge you all some money for this new ending. 

Thats a pretty naieve point of view.  You're talking about writers for a corporation.  They have some control over what they write but if customers dont like it and it costs the company money, it will be dealt with.  The product is copyright (i.e. belongs) to BW/EA but to say they won't change things because customers want them to, is ridiculous.

Also, no one is forcing BW/EA to do anything, and they certainly won't if they don't think they have to.  They've run plenty of franchises into the floor for money.  Your personal opinion (and mine) are irrelevant to this, you're happy with it, I didn't buy it.  But a lot of people did and they hate it, and thats a financial issue.  It's wonderfully moral to call it disgusting and childish but from a business point of view its totally irrelevant.

If I was an exec or shareholder of EA I wouldn't be happy with this situation, but there is feedback here and that's important.  Thats what they care about, as it gives them information on how to potentially fix it.

And they'll charge for it if they think they can get away with it, but thats another internal analysis.

[Dark Cider]

I haven't supported or visited IGN in ages, nor do I care what they have to say. Games as art is a farce, games are only software made for a user base. Under that definition, when the software fails to meet it's user's expectation, they can either move to change or fix what they deem is wrong with it, or return or not support it and be done with said software.

[Banelash]

Idiots Gathering Network

[Gigamantis]

Salis777 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

You don't have to like art, but if you insist on taking control away from the artist you're wrong, period.  It doesn't belong to you and it's not your right.  I personally think what you're attempting to force Bioware to do is disgusting and childish. 

Still, just my opinions.  They had just better charge you all some money for this new ending. 

Thats a pretty naieve point of view.  You're talking about writers for a corporation.  They have some control over what they write but if customers dont like it and it costs the company money, it will be dealt with.  The product is copyright (i.e. belongs) to BW/EA but to say they won't change things because customers want them to, is ridiculous.

Also, no one is forcing BW/EA to do anything, and they certainly won't if they don't think they have to.  They've run plenty of franchises into the floor for money.  Your personal opinion (and mine) are irrelevant to this, you're happy with it, I didn't buy it.  But a lot of people did and they hate it, and thats a financial issue.  It's wonderfully moral to call it disgusting and childish but from a business point of view its totally irrelevant.

If I was an exec or shareholder of EA I wouldn't be happy with this situation, but there is feedback here and that's important.  Thats what they care about, as it gives them information on how to potentially fix it.

And they'll charge for it if they think they can get away with it, but thats another internal analysis.

Giving in to fans trying to stilt or change their creative process is just as bad as giving into anyone on the corporate level.  Uncreative people shouldn't force their way into the creative process.  You weren't hired to write this game and I certainly don't want you influencing how it's written.  I didn't buy this to experience your version of the Mass Effect world, I wanted theirs. 

I'm alright with the DLC if they charge you for it, but giving it to you for free would just validate your detrimental opinion that you should be in control of this game creatively.  

Modifié par Gigamantis, 22 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

I couldn't even watch the whole thing. The guy is a complete idiot who doesn't know ****.

[IST]

Salis777 wrote...

Agreed, he's an idiot. I don't see him running anything more than his mouth for the next 40 years, he has no concept of any of the underlying business dynamics involved. His opinion is completely irrelevant and I bet Bioware is even wishing he'd be quiet lol.

THIS.

x 1000.

[AlanC9]

I miss the good old days when everyone on the BSN thought that designing a game to please lots of people was a bad thing, and Bio should just stick to their vision instead.

[DatIrishFella]

Legion64 wrote...

Lol, IGN's opinion.

I won't give the video even a glance after his previous video on the matter. 

[Salis777]

Gigamantis wrote...

Giving in to fans trying to stilt or change their creative process is just as bad as giving into anyone on the corporate level.  Uncreative people shouldn't force their way into the creative process.  You weren't hired to write this game and I certainly don't want you influencing how it's written.  I didn't buy this to experience your version of the Mass Effect world, I wanted theirs. 

I'm alright with the DLC if they charge you for it, but giving it to you for free would just validate your detrimental opinion that you should be in control of this game creatively.  

Again I didn't buy it.

The _consumers_ are not trying to CHANGE the creative process they are saying the creative process FAILED.  No one is asking for a group of fans (consumers) to be installed in the Edmonton office to oversee their writing team.

What they are asking for is for a new creative process to fix the problems caused by the last one, which FAILED in their opinion.  From a business point of view they are sure to react to it, and why not?  Consumer feedback is the basis of any sector of business in the world.

[android654]

His argument is paper-thin, but he does have a point. I think BW should've had the dignity to stand by their work as an ending they were proud of.

[Lincoln MuaDib]

The fans aren't asking that BioWare give them something that BioWare said they would not get.

The fans are asking that BioWare give them something that BioWare said they WOULD get.

Imagine I sold you a Ferrari. It was nice. I gave you the keys and stated, "I promise you'll love this car, and it will last 30 years." So you're driving down an open highway, your partner handfeeding you chocolate and winking cheekily, you're thinking, hey, life could NOT be better, I'm loving every minute of this! And then . . .

*Bam*! The car's engine expodes! You're sitting in a burning hulk! Your trousers have been blown off, your partner is crying and the chocolates are gone. You crawl to the side of the road and wait for an ambulance.

In hospital, you call me, the car dealer.
“Hello, is this the guy that sold me that Ferrari?” you ask.
“Yes, it is. Drives great, right?”
“It blew up. I’m not happy.”
“Blew up? Yeah, that’s probably because of the bomb I put in the engine.”
“Why would you DO that?”
“Well, things always change in development. What was your favourite part of driving the car?”


Really, if BioWare had said, BEFORE launch, "We must be honest, things changed so the endings you get might be much less choice than you might have expected, however throughout the game you see the effect of earlier choices, feel free to buy or not"- then we'd be fine.

But no. Up to an INCLUDING launch day, they stuck by their statements that "It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C....."

Then were surprised at our anger at being lied to.

[SpideyKnight]

It doesn't matter if he loses respect.  You've heard it before and here it is again, but this time it's in our favor.  This is a business and we are the paying costumers.  Colin gets his stuff for free, so his opinion on this issue is moot.  Bio wants to appease the people purchasing this game and every subsequent game that follows.  And if they do right by me this time, and I'll pay for the ending, I will continue to buy all Bio products on Day 1 without fail.  As I have done for the past 14 years.  In addition to this he is completely uninformed.  This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.  If you misrepresent the game to your fans they deserve to have it put it right.  Not just us though, the story you created and everyone who has participated in it deserves to have it done properly.

You only like the ending if you don't delve into it, if you don't allow it to consume a single thought, if you accept it for what it is and hit the power button.  The moment you put a single thought into it the walls come crashing down and that's just not cool.  Everyone deserves better than that, particularly Commander Shepard.

You ever notice that people who "like" the ending like this guy, never go into their reasons why?  We have thousands of pages on why it's broken and they have what amounts to nothing on why they consider this ending "good."  When they do write something it's always vague, and how they "understand" it, and what not.  What do you understand?  Explain. Our reasons are properly documented, can the other side really say the same?

Modifié par SpideyKnight, 22 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[AlanC9]

Lincoln's right. If Bio had just said they were doing the same ending choices they always do, except this time all of the endings are flawed in one way or another, we would be having an entirely different discussion.

[Shaigunjoe]

SpideyKnight wrote...

You only like the ending if you don't delve into it, if you don't allow it to consume a single thought, if you accept it for what it is and hit the power button.  The moment you put a single thought into it the walls come crashing down and that's just not cool.  Everyone deserves better than that, particularly Commander Shepard.

Quite the opposite, if I accepted the ending at face value of I would have hated it.  Don't generalize!

[Gigamantis]

Salis777 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Giving in to fans trying to stilt or change their creative process is just as bad as giving into anyone on the corporate level.  Uncreative people shouldn't force their way into the creative process.  You weren't hired to write this game and I certainly don't want you influencing how it's written.  I didn't buy this to experience your version of the Mass Effect world, I wanted theirs. 

I'm alright with the DLC if they charge you for it, but giving it to you for free would just validate your detrimental opinion that you should be in control of this game creatively.  

Again I didn't buy it.

The _consumers_ are not trying to CHANGE the creative process they are saying the creative process FAILED.  No one is asking for a group of fans (consumers) to be installed in the Edmonton office to oversee their writing team.

What they are asking for is for a new creative process to fix the problems caused by the last one, which FAILED in their opinion.  From a business point of view they are sure to react to it, and why not?  Consumer feedback is the basis of any sector of business in the world.

What you're trying to claim here is constructive feedback, and what's actually happening is the most trollish ******-fest ever conceived.  From the user review bombings to the threats of legal action for "false advertising" the user base has been a complete joke, and is obviously just attempting to muscle in on the creative process. 

There's no failure of the creative process being proven or even rationally discussed.  This is just a childish attempt to extort the company by scaring off potential new fans with gross exaggerations and flat out lies.  You people getting your way here would be a failure in the creative process.