40 réponses à ce sujet

[peddroelm]

I used a memeditor to test some of the actual hitpoint and damage numbers in order to reverse engineer some the weapon damage formulas in ME3 ... Here are the results so far ...

* all weapons do the same damage vs health, armour , shields & barriers (*EDIT* vanilla weapons)
* range to target is no longer(was in ME2) a factor in the damage formulas (makes reverse enginnering the formulas possible)
* unupgraded melee attack does 150 damage 
* head shot damage bonus is 150%
* unlike in ME2, in ME3 weapon damage is applied directly to monster HP (in ME2 there was an additional multiplier that implemeted level scaling - monsters always had the same number of HP but the damage applied to them was scaled down (function of  Sheppard LVL?)) - again - much easier to test and reverse engineer ...

On the tests I run (turrian planet main quest missions lvl 8 Sheppard)

Marauders had ~ 1000 shields  
the first Brute had ~6000 armour ..  they have a flat 50 damage reduce applied on all weapon attacks stronger than 50 points of damage(an attack worth 59 points of damage will only inflict 9,  an attack worth 230 will inflict 180 .. attacks bellow 50 points of damage will still inflict minor damage  )

* how AP ammo power works in ME3 

Numerical example : 

Brute - set armor 6000 (has 50 damage reduced DR)
Weapon SR Viper 1  (229.4 base damage (coalesced.ini)
LVL 1 AP ammo bonus ability (10% extra damage vs armor , -50% armor DR)
No other damage bonuses from abilities, equipment , squad 

teoretical damage applied on viper shot : 229.4 * 1.1 - 50 *0.5 = 227.34
experimental data 6000 HP before shot  - 5772.660 HP after viper shot   = 227.34 


Some more numerical examples : 

==================================
Viper 1 vs Marauder body shot (Shield) (no damage bonuses, no ammo powers)

Before shot Shield HP 648
After shot Shield HP 418 
Diffrence is 230 ( viper base damage in coalesced is 229.4 ) the game rounds damage values for shield but not for amour
=====================================
 Viper 1 vs Marauder body shot (Shield) (AdrenalineRush 75% bonus damage , no ammo powers)

Before shot Shield HP 648
After shot Shield HP 246
Diffrence is 402 ( 229.4 * 1.75= 401.45)


=====================================
  Viper 1 vs Marauder head shot (Shield) (head shot, , no ammo powers)

Before shot Shield HP 648
After shot Shield HP 74
Diffrence is 574 ( 229.4 * 2.5)

=====================================


(head shot & Adrenaline rush rank 4  75% )

Before shot Shield HP 3000 {I've set shields to 3000 because damage was too great} 
After shot Shield HP 1996
Diffrence is 1004 ( 229.4 * 1.75 * 2.5 = 1 003.625)
AR and HS both multiply the base damage (not like in ME2) ...I believe its the HS multiplier that is "special" here ..Other damage bonuses add with AR bonus and are multiplied by HS bonus ...More testing required...
==========================================

also did some tests with and avenger lvl 1 and a predator  lvl1(starter pistol) ...Results as expected

Will run more tests in the future  for the other ammo types, abilities and with additional damage sources (skills, equipment ..)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 19 février 2013 - 10:07 .

[Mperkins813]

I don't know how this doesn't have any replies....excellent work my friend.

Looking forward to the day when I have raw numbers for all the weapons

[Dormin]

Thank you comrade

[peddroelm]

Some more data :


=========================
Avenger 1 vs brute 6000-5995 = 5  
38.6 - 50  < 0 (weapons will always do some damage vs armor)
===========================
Avenger 1 AR(75%) vs brute (torso) 6000-5995 = 5  
38.6*(1+0.75)- 50  < 0 (weapons will always do some damage vs armor) 
=============================

Avenger lvl 1+ AR (75%)+ AP ammo lvl 1 vs brute torso ..6000-5953.59 =46.41
38.6* (1+0.1+0.75) - 50 *(1-0.5)= 46.41
 {AP ammo or AP Wpnmod are essential for low base damage weapons vs armour DR}
==============================
Predator lvl 1  vs brute torso  6000-5991 = 9  (did I do a rounding on the measured value ?)
58.8-50=8.8
================================
Predator lvl 1 + WpnMod AP lvl2 (35%) vs brute( torso)  6000-5973.7 = 26.3
58.8-50*(1-0.35) =26.3
=================================
Predator lvl 1 + WpnMod AP lvl2 (35%) + AR (75%) vs brute torso  6000-5929.6 = 70.4
58.8*(1+0.75)-50*(1-0.35) =70.4
===================================
Predator lvl 1+ WpnMod AP lvl2 + AP ammo lvl 1  vs brute (torso) 6000- 5942.82 = 57.18
58.8 * (1+0.1) - 50*(1-0.5-0.35) = 57.18  { Armor piercing from ammo power and weapon mod add up}
====================================
Predator lvl 1+ WpnMod AP lvl2 + AP ammo lvl 1 + AR(75%)  vs brute (torso) 6000- 5898.72 = 101.28
58.8*(1+0.1+0.75) -50*(1-0.5 -0.35)= 101.28
===================================

Mantis 1 (15% damage mod lvl 1) vs Brute (torso)  6000 - 5342.06 =657.94
615.6* (1+0.15) - 50 = 
657.94 
=================================
Mantis lvl 1 + AR(75%) + AP ammo lvl 1 + Damage WpnMod lvl 1 (15%) vs brute (torso) 6000-4793.8=1206.2
615.6*(1+0.1+0.75+0.15) - 50 * (1-0.5) = 1206.2
==================================

I suspect Head shot 150% damage multiplier is applied multiplicatively {very very powerfull} while most other damage bonuses are applied additively...Which also would also make headshot damage upgrade skills very appealing   ... So far I have failed to score a single HeadShot on a chasing brute under testing conditions ...

[Korolen]

Thanks for this. I'd been wondering what the headshot damage bonus was.

[Eckswhyzed]

Excellent work. Further confirmation that headshots do some pretty insane damage.

[kotli]

Nice work, so headshots are really good damage then at (1.5+bonuses)x base, that means taking the 20% headshot evo for ammo etc is good, nice to see that the AP mods have a good effect as well.
You found the armour damage reduction?
As for the shields and armour well Bioware stated all this in the Gameplay Data and Mechanics sticky, that the only difference between them is armour damage reduction and shields/barriers reducing remaining damage when they get popped (50% 75% 100%).
So the minimum damage is 5? or is it 10% of weapon damage?
Any info on what base heavy melee damage is?

According to Bioware info ^ in that thread the best weapon vs Shields and Barriers is omne that ethier fire fast or a  shotgun due to shotguns damage being a number of projectiles doing X damage, meaning when the shield pop/dies some of the projectiles can still do damage to its underlying health/armour bar.

IE say a shotgun fires 5 projectiles doing 20 damage each for 100 total what the target takes in damage is 20 damage 5 times if all projecties hit. So vs armour it will always do 5* what ever the minium damage to armour is, and verus shielded mobs up to 4*20 damage can bypass shields.

Modifié par kotli, 22 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[peddroelm]

kotli wrote...
You found the armour damage reduction?

Only tested for the first Brute on the turian main story mission with a lvl 8 shep ->  50 flat damage reduce ... Will need to run more tests on other enemy types 

kotli wrote...


So the minimum damage is 5? or is it 10% of weapon damage?

 Need to run more tests on diffrent enemies and with diffrent puny weapons ..Its definetily not 10% weapon damage ...
 

kotli wrote... 
Any info on what base heavy melee damage is?

Will test this later today ... will boost some monster's shield HP  to whistand it ..Will also need to test if armor DR applies to melee attacks  (adrenaline rush damage bonus doen't work with melee attacks(wasn't expecting it to work ..) ) . Did not test in on the brute because brutes have insta kill ability//animation and I also suspect their regular melee attacks have some shield piercing abilities (I had Sheppard shields set to 2k for testing and brute melee attacks were able to damage health without droping the shields ...)

 

[peddroelm]

Just a quick bump - ran a few tests for warp ammo against an Assault Trooper using an adept with warp ammo as bonus skill ...

( Assault Troopers had ~1100 health on the Mars mission ( lvl1 mantis head shot damage = 615.6*2.5=1539 overkill) )

Adept heavy melee base damage = 250 (area effect ?)

Shuriken1 SMG (assault trooper body)
Health before shot 1100
Health after shot 924.2
1100-924.2 = 29.3 (shuriken base damage) * 6 (six round burst)
======================
Shuriken1 SMG & WarpAmmo lvl 2 (15% bonus vs health)
Assault trooper body
1100-897.83=(29.3*1.15) *6
=====================

Testing WarpAmmo damage bonus vs the lifted target (sigularity) is difficult because lifted targets take damage when lifted(minor), when thy hit objects in flight(small) and when they fall back down(moderate) ..I suspect they also take some extra damage from the impact when being shot (this damage will apply on all shots without warp ammo) ...

What I can tell so far is that the bonus damage vs lifted targets (+75%) at lvl 2 warp ammo is not applied like I would expect it to be (if it is indeed applied at all) ...

A mantis 1 body shot vs a lifted target should do 615.6 * 1.75 = 1 077.3 damage . Coupled with the
damage from lift alone means an assault trooper should not survive a Mantis lvl1 shot  with warp ammo lvl2 activated when lifted. However on every attempt I made the assault trooper survived ()... I will need to run more tests later against enemies with higher HP and with warp ammo evolved to lvl 6 ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 24 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[termokanden]

Good thing you're testing this. Hard to make informed decisions about builds without knowing how the bonuses are applied.

It would not surprise me if you find a bug or two though. No offense to BioWare, every game has them, snd this is the kind of low-priority stuff that will slip through the cracks in software development.

[Athenau]

Could you test whether the cryo damage bonus (final evolution) is multiplicative or additive with other weapon damage boosts?  My testing indicates the former, but it's difficult to be sure without hard numbers.

Modifié par Athenau, 24 mars 2012 - 11:47 .

[peddroelm]

I will eventually test that too .. I don't have the means to add//remove weapons, abilities, targets on the fly so I need to play the game and do my testing rounds with what I have available in game ...

[Athenau]

Gibbed Mass Effect 3 saved editor allows you to add weapons and abilities.

http://svn.gib.me/builds/masseffect3/

[Quething]

Neat!

This would appear to confirm both a) low-damage rapidfire weapons are universally inferior and warp ammo is bugged.

[zeypher]

but low damage rapid fire weapons with explosive ammo are universally superior

Modifié par zeypher, 24 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[peddroelm]

 Base damage for upgraded weapons ...
Viper I 229.4
Viper X 286.7
(((286.7 - 229.4) / 9) * 100) / 229.4 = +2.775356 % damage per upgrade lvl

Paladin I damage 350.9
Paladin X damage 438.7
(((438.7 - 350.9) / 9) * 100) / 350.9 = +2.78015262 % damage per upgrade lvl

Shuriken I damage 29.3
Shuriken X damage 36.6
(((36.6 - 29.3) / 9) * 100) / 29.3 = +2.76829731 % damage per upgrade lvl

Weapon X is doen't quite have exactly +25% damage bonus of Weapon I (small variations for each weapon)... Which means calculating base damage for any upgrade in between is a bit tedious ....

========================================================================================Some more test on Warp Ammo vs health

Mission: Priority PalavenSheppard : adept lvl 9Equipment : Inferno set (+30% power damage)Target Marauder  (~1088 shields (shields are always rounded to integer), ~1451.25 health)

Paladin V
---------

Body Shot
Measured  :1400 - 1010.078 = 389.922 
Calculated:  350.9 *(1+0.0278015*4) = 389.922

Head Shot
Measured:  1400 - 425.19439 = 974.80561
Calculated: 350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4)) * (1 + 1.5) = 974.805463            

 Same as above with Warp Ammo LVL2 (15% bonus damage vs health)

Body shot
Measured: 1400 - 951.5894 = 448.4106
Calculated: 350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4)) * 1.15 = 448.410513
INFERNO SET 30% POWER DAMAGE HAS NO EFFECT ON WARP AMMO DAMAGE VS HEALTH

Heat Shot
Measured: 1400 - 366.7061 = 1033.2939
Calculated: (350.9 * (1+(0.0278015 * 4)) *(1 + 1.5)) + (350.9 * (1+(0.0278015 * 4)) * 0.15) = 1033.29379
WARP AMMO DAMAGE BONUS IS ADDED SEPARATELY AND DOES NOT GET THE HEADSHOT DAMAGE BONUS {this has upsides because this could potentially remove weak barriers to enable 1 shot kills bypassing the No_barrier_damage _bleed_through mechanic, then again damage from ammo powers is not very significant ...}
=====================================
Shuriken V:
Body Shot
 Measured  :1400 - 1 204.7334 = 195.2666
Calculated:  29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 6 = 195.266615

Head Shot Measured:  1400 - 960.6501 = 439.3499
Calculated: (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * (1 + 1.5) * 5) + (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4))) = 439.349884 {5 bullets hit the head 1 hit the body} {would need stasis//freeze ability to get targets to stay still for testing}             Same as above with Warp Ammo LVL2 (15% bonus damage vs health) 

Body shot 
Measured: 1400 - 1 175.4431 = 224.5569
Calculated: (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 6) + (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 0.15 * 6) = 224.556608

Headshot
 Measured: too tedious
Calculated: (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 2.5 * 6) + (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 0.15 * 6) = 517.45653
===================================

Viper I (20% bonus damage attachments) 

Body shot: 
Measured: 1300 - 1 024.7200 = 275.28
Calculated: 229.4 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.15) = 275.28

Heat Shot
Measured: 1400 - 711.8001 = 688.1999
Calculated: 229.4 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.15) * (1 + 1.5) = 688.2

Same as above with Warp Ammo LVL2 (15% bonus damage vs health) 

Body shot 
Measured: 1400 - 1090.3100 = 309.69
Calculated:(229.4 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.15)) + (229.4 * 0.15) = 309.69

Heat Shot
Measured: 1400 - 677.3900 = 722.61
Calculated: (229.4 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.15) * (1 + 1.5)) + (229.4 * 0.15) = 722.61

WARP AMMO BONUS DAMAGE APPLIES ONLY TO WEAPON BASE DAMAGE (as soon as you start to add damage modifiers the bonus damage from ammo power becomes less relevant)
Will soon test against a brute and see what the 25% armour weaken is supposed to do ..

Modifié par peddroelmz, 24 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[idspisp0pd]

This thread is AMAZING. You deserve some kind of a medal. Keep up the good work!

[peddroelm]

 Warp Ammo Armor tests Vs Brute (50 DR)
(armour weaking is the same piercing effect as the one from AP ammo and weapon AP add-ons, however it 
appears that unlike AP ammo its piercing effect doesn't add up directly with the effect from the weapon 
mod) (warp ammo is worse at penetrating armor than AP ammo)
=================================
Paladin V (armor piercing add-on lvl 2 (-35%))

body shot
measured:3000 - 2642.5776 = 357.4224
calculated:(350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4))) - (50 * (1 - 0.35)) = 357.422185
calculated without AP mod : (350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4))) - 50 = 339.922185

same with Warp ammo lvl 2 (15% extra damage vs armour, 25% armour pierce)

body shot
measured:3000 - 2575.9643 = 424.0357
calculated: (350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4))) - (50 * (1 - 0.35) * (1 - 0.25))+(350.9 * (1 + (0.0278015 * 4))*0.15)=424.035513
BONUS DAMAGE FROM AMMO POWER IS ADDED SEPARATELY AND IGNORES TARGET ARMOR DR
=================================
Mantis I (20% damage bonus from add-ons)

body shot
measured:3000 - 2311.2802 = 688.7198
calculated:(615.6 * (1 + 0.2)) - 50 = 688.72

same with Warp ammo lvl 2 (15% extra damage vs armour, 25% armour pierce)

body shotmeasured: 3000 - 2206.4399 = 793.5601 
calculated: (615.6 * (1 + 0.2+0.15)) - (50 * (1 - 0.25)) = 793.56
BONUS DAMAGE FROM AMMO POWER IS ADDED SEPARATELY AND IGNORES TARGET ARMOR DR
===================================
shuriken V 

body shot

measured:3000-2970 = 30 (5 damage per hit)
calculated: (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4))) - 50 = -17.4555641 < 0 

same with Warp ammo lvl 1 (15% extra damage vs armour, 25% armour pierce)

measured:3000 - 2 940.7104 = 59.2896
calculated: (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4))) - (50 * (1 - 0.25)) = -4.95556412 < 0 damage will be 
(5 + (29.3 * (1 + (0.0276829 * 4)) * 0.15)) * 6 = 59.2899923
IN THIS CASE LVL 1 WARP AMMO NEARLY DOUBLES THE DAMAGE THE SHURIKEN DOES VS THE BRUTE (still crap damage)
===================================

Modifié par peddroelmz, 24 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[TheInvoker]

Nice....can you update the first post with every base damage and the other stats??
so we can calculate what we need

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...

Nice....can you update the first post with every base damage and the other stats??
so we can calculate what we need

errr  

There is a link from google docs floating around  with a table with weapon base stats .. (like damage for Weapon I and Weapon X from coalesced.ini - search on this forum for "stats" and it will come up ..)

As for the enemies HP stats ... I do not have them ...I don't know for sure there isn't some kind of level scaling involved (boosting enemies stats as Sheppard levels up or lowering inflicted damage as it was in ME2)  - from what I've seen so far it doen't seem to be one ... 

Best bet for a list of monster stats would probably be extracting them from the game resources database (as this game uses a variant of the Unreal engine (?)  I would immagine some tools already exist for accessing resources ...  ) but is not really my area of expertise ... 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 mars 2012 - 12:51 .

[TheInvoker]

peddroelmz wrote...

TheInvoker wrote...

Nice....can you update the first post with every base damage and the other stats??
so we can calculate what we need

errr  

There is a link from google docs floating around  with a table with weapon base stats .. (like damage for Weapon I and Weapon X from coalesced.ini - search on this forum for "stats" and it will come up ..)

As for the enemies HP stats ... I do not have them ...I don't know for sure there isn't some kind of level scaling involved (boosting enemies stats as Sheppard levels up or lowering inflicted damage as it was in ME2)  - from what I've seen so far it doen't seem to be one ... 

Best bet for a list of monster stats would probably be extracting them from the game resources database (as this game uses a variant of the Unreal engine (?)  I would immagine some tools already exist for accessing resources ...  ) but is not really my area of expertise ... 

this is the link

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv

which is the difference between substained and burst DPS?

Modifié par TheInvoker, 26 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[peddroelm]

I didn't do those calculations so I don't know what they are about (SMG have much Higher DPS output than ARs in that table) ..

but the table is a good reference for the weapons base damage when you don't have coalesced.ini in reach...

[sarah_shepard]

@TheInvoker

Sustained DPS means damage per a given value of time (like 1 minute)

Burst DPS is not clear for me exactly, but here it should mean the total damage done by the whole clip fired.

From that, you can know for example, that to kill a high health unit, sustained dps should matter. E.G. the Valiant is the highest Sust.DPS in the Sniper Rifles, which means that if you got some other, while I have the valiant, and we start to shoot the same type of enemy (but each of us at a different one) at the same type of weapon level (basic in this table) without any aids, I will be the one who kill my target first.
BUT if you want to go for smaller targets, BURST DPS what we have to comapre. E.G. to kill a cannibal with one clip, you need the best Burst DPS weapon.

In reverse it's easier to describe: The better Burst DPS you have, the higher base health enemy you can kill with one clip.
Of course all this applies only if burst dps is what I've described above.

But before you go berserk and calculate the best DPS weapons, keep in mind that you need good reacharge times also, and this table only goes for weapons, not powers.


A very useful comparison for weapons! keep it updated

Modifié par sarah_shepard, 26 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[TheInvoker]

OK thanks

Peddro could you write the formula for avenger or predator with weapon mod AP and Damage,incendiary ammo at level 6 and 10% weapon bonus damage from assault mastery (vanguard)??
i'm not yet sure when i must apply the bonus

[peddroelm]

TheInvoker wrote...

OK thanks

Peddro could you write the formula for avenger or predator with weapon mod AP and Damage,incendiary ammo at level 6 and 10% weapon bonus damage from assault mastery (vanguard)??
i'm not yet sure when i must apply the bonus

My second post in this thread has some examples regarding Avenger I and Predator I  .. Predator even has piercing add-on..

Modifié par peddroelmz, 27 mars 2012 - 08:36 .