112 réponses à ce sujet

[Haexpane]

Revenants are supposed to be hard, use pause

[Kualau]

Ghandorian wrote...
I would just love to see what that upcoming game designer guy, who wants the game to be more like wow so it sells 18 billion copies, thinks of this thread.

All I know is this:

Many encounters seem disproportionately hard/punishing on a player who takes a "Normal" difficulty setting and has no familiarity with the interface.  Tactics/movement of NPC's should not require a huge degree of micromanagement for the default difficulty, and should have a better degree of survivability for said NPCs, especially for intelligent movement.  Pause ruins immersion.  I shouldn't be able to bash my face on my keyboard and win, but on the same note, I shouldn't have to have 4 brains and 4 keyboards to plan a strategy that would put to shame the seven-year Iran-Iraq war.

[Serenity84]

Kualau wrote...
And I only get 3 points per level?  Did any of the developers actually PLAY a warrior?  Or were they too busy making new spell effects?

People played the game on Nightmare and did just fine. You get about 20-24 levels. That's 60+ points (plus some more you get for plot-related purposes). With S&SH warrior you need to focus only two main attributes and two secondary ones. Then you get items that either increase willpower or stamina or have stamina regeneration in combat. There are also items that buff health or constition.

Attribute distribution is only worrisome for rogues. Mages have it easiest and warriors aren't hard to build either.

The game is actually fairly easy with some insane spikes here and there. Even the average battle takes some thought above normal, but they aren't too challenging. Then every now and then you get some absolutely insane miniboss or bossfight and you go "WTF?!". But you just need to learn the mechanics.

It's great that the game is relatively hard compared to other games out there. Modern games are way, way too easy. If you don't want to worry about anything, play in easy. But for anyone who played the old Bioware/Black Isle games normal is no challenge either.

Modifié par Serenity84, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:08 .

[Bane]

Take a look at my warrior here if you wish. Item spoiler warning!

Strength and Constitution are your most important stats. 42 Strength is needed for the massive armors.

26 Dexterity is the highest you need in order to be able to use one of the shield talents. I didn't go any higher than that.

I never invested in Willpower and was able to sustain two or three talents and have enough Stamina left over to fire off my activated talents at least once. That's plenty for most fights if you use them strategically.

I only increased Cunning when I had a skill point to spend on Coercion. Other than that I ignored it.

[Lady Rivinn]

Kualau wrote...

Lady Rivinn wrote...

Um, don't raid tanks do almost no dps? Tanks tank. Not dps. Your three party members do your dps. And you can't just mash any button as a tank in wow, usually you have to use some format and cycle through certain abilities? (wouldn't really know though, I played a healer in raids, not a tank)

iT's almost better to invest in dex to avoid hits, than con and try to soak up hits (according to what I've read). And willpower gives warriors/rogues more stamina, and mages more magic. So willpower is important for a tank.

Raid tanks do damage that does a disproportionate amount of threat (usually baked into a particular stance that doesn't require upkeep using the same resource as your primary abilities).  The damage they do is significant, though not near the amount of a true dps'r.  That being said, tanks don't need to rely on their dps to be present to win every single enounter.

So what I'm hearing is that I need to invest in strength to wear armor/weapons, invest in constitution to have a health pool, invest in willpower to use my abilites, invest in dexterity to avoid hits, and invest in cunning so I can intimidate. 

And I only get 3 points per level?  Did any of the developers actually PLAY a warrior?  Or were they too busy making new spell effects?

/sigh

Yeah but usually, if the tank is doing more damange than the dps, the dps'ers are doing something wrong and need to pick it up a notch.  Only people who should have less damage than tanks (for the most part) are healers.  Which is more my point, if you're playing as a tank, you keep things from your group and let them deal the significant damage.     Then again I never truly cared for "dps warriors" in groups but that's an entirely different topic altogether.

I don't think Alistair does much damage in my group, and he's my tank... but he sure takes the most hits and keeps most of the mobs off of my people (except when I aggro everything which I do cause it's fun to cast fireball and all those fun aoe spells). 

There are also tomes at different merchants that you can buy to give you more attritubes and skills, when you have the gold for it to add a little to your character.  It isn't much, but it does help.

And well... as I mage I wanted to be able to presuade people to do what I'd like, so I focused on willpower, magic and cunning, and tried to get strength up a bit plus con.  In all rpg games... there's never enough stats you can choose each level, and never enough points for abilities you want. >_<  You just have to find a good combo.

Modifié par Lady Rivinn, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:07 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Lady Rivinn wrote...

So what I'm hearing is that I need to invest in strength to wear armor/weapons, invest in constitution to have a health pool, invest in willpower to use my abilites, invest in dexterity to avoid hits, and invest in cunning so I can intimidate.

You can ignore constitution, cunning, and willpower and get away with it.

[BiowareFanatic]

Kualau wrote...

Ghandorian wrote...
I would just love to see what that upcoming game designer guy, who wants the game to be more like wow so it sells 18 billion copies, thinks of this thread.

All I know is this:

Many encounters seem disproportionately hard/punishing on a player who takes a "Normal" difficulty setting and has no familiarity with the interface.  Tactics/movement of NPC's should not require a huge degree of micromanagement for the default difficulty, and should have a better degree of survivability for said NPCs, especially for intelligent movement.  Pause ruins immersion.  I shouldn't be able to bash my face on my keyboard and win, but on the same note, I shouldn't have to have 4 brains and 4 keyboards to plan a strategy that would put to shame the seven-year Iran-Iraq war.

lol you bought the wrong game then, this is a bioware game, its suppose to be like that, you cant just run in and kill things like Oblivion, you actually need to use your brain and repeat using different tactics until you can win, I remember spending 6 hours trying to beat a boss

[Serenity84]

Lady Rivinn wrote...
And well... as I mage I wanted to be able to presuade people to do what I'd like, so I focused on willpower, magic and cunning, and tried to get strength up a bit plus con.  In all rpg games... there's never enough stats you can choose each level, and never enough points for abilities you want. >_<  You just have to find a good combo.

Cunning contributes to persuasion. Strength contributes to intimitate. Otherwise cunning is a rogue stat that also options a few dialogue options by itself.

As said, you can get away without focusing in CON if you put points in DEX instead. Depends. You can't completely neglect it, but you don't need an astronomical amount of health to stand up in a fight.

[Kualau]

http://dragonage.wik...power#Willpower



I found it amusing that there is a big fat advertisement for World of Warcraft in the middle of the page.

[Kualau]

BiowareFanatic wrote...
lol you bought the wrong game then, this is a bioware game, its suppose to be like that, you cant just run in and kill things like Oblivion, you actually need to use your brain and repeat using different tactics until you can win, I remember spending 6 hours trying to beat a boss

6 hours huh?  I thought this was a game, not a second job.

You spent 6 hours trying repeatedly and failing at a single encounter in a video game - and you're telling me to use my brain.

Thanks dude- I needed a laugh.    

[Random_Havoc]

First thing you got to know about tactics is that the only execute one tactic per ‘round’ so the order of your tactics are very important. Here is simple tactics set up for Lelianna, so you can see how I usually set them.



First thing I want her to do is stay alive so I have tactic one set to;



Self: Health <25% Action: Drink Pot most potent (some would set this to 50% or even 75% and use least potent but my healers tactics should be keeping her topped off, this is for emergencies)



Second I don’t want her in melee if I can help it so tactic two is set for;



Self: Being attacked by melee Action: Dirty Fighting





Third I want her to assist the tanks by debuffing the attack and defense of their targets



Enemy Target: Using Melee Action: Use Skill Shattering Shot



Fourth tactic:

Enemy: Target Using Melee Action: Use Skill Crippling Shot



And last if all else fails tactic five (i.e. she is healthy not being attacked and her skills are in cool down):



Enemy: Target of Alister (or other toon) Action: Attack



This last one, if set up as tactic 3 would always activate when she was healthy and not being attacked, so she would never get to tactics 4 or 5 for her to use her skills. Also I like to save Crit shot and Arrow of Slaying for micro managing, She always has her Aim or Rapid fire on, so I don’t need to waste a tactic on that, but if I have spare tactic slots I would set up Enemy: Target using Ranged – Action: Use skill Arrow of Pinning, or some such. I save these as customs tactics, only changing the toon she is assisting in tactic 5.



Hope this helps, like I said, very basic, but I do not need to micro quite as much with these tactics. It does get easier the more you play the game and get the hang of how it works, hang in there!

[Jab0r]

Attribute distribution is only worrisome for rogues.

Not even then. Split between Dexterity and Cunning, putting points occasionally into Strength so you can use the equipment you want to.

Given that you're autoattacking anyway, you don't need anything in Willpower at all.

[BiowareFanatic]

lol I was playing on Nightmare and on a PS3 and it was on thanksgiving break, besides if you are frustrated so easily go buy Modern Warfare for a cakewalk

[Ghandorian]

BiowareFanatic wrote...

Kualau wrote...

Ghandorian wrote...
I would just love to see what that upcoming game designer guy, who wants the game to be more like wow so it sells 18 billion copies, thinks of this thread.

All I know is this:

Many encounters seem disproportionately hard/punishing on a player who takes a "Normal" difficulty setting and has no familiarity with the interface.  Tactics/movement of NPC's should not require a huge degree of micromanagement for the default difficulty, and should have a better degree of survivability for said NPCs, especially for intelligent movement.  Pause ruins immersion.  I shouldn't be able to bash my face on my keyboard and win, but on the same note, I shouldn't have to have 4 brains and 4 keyboards to plan a strategy that would put to shame the seven-year Iran-Iraq war.

lol you bought the wrong game then, this is a bioware game, its suppose to be like that, you cant just run in and kill things like Oblivion, you actually need to use your brain and repeat using different tactics until you can win, I remember spending 6 hours trying to beat a boss

lol @the name

But yes the game is a tactical RPG. It is challenging and takes time to learn. By the second time around it is a lot easier. (Too Easy) This game is made to be re-played and if you could simply do it all easy the first time why would you want to do it a fifth? Do not try and play in a hurry. Don't try and play this game like you play your wow toon. It is a different genre of gaming all together. It is slow, methodical and practiced rather than fast and sweaty.

The whole thing that counts here is that you can and will loose sometimes.

[Lady Rivinn]

Serenity84 wrote...

Lady Rivinn wrote...
And well... as I mage I wanted to be able to presuade people to do what I'd like, so I focused on willpower, magic and cunning, and tried to get strength up a bit plus con.  In all rpg games... there's never enough stats you can choose each level, and never enough points for abilities you want. >_<  You just have to find a good combo.

Cunning contributes to persuasion. Strength contributes to intimitate. Otherwise cunning is a rogue stat that also options a few dialogue options by itself.

As said, you can get away without focusing in CON if you put points in DEX instead. Depends. You can't completely neglect it, but you don't need an astronomical amount of health to stand up in a fight.

I know cunning is a rogue stat... but I knew about spoilers in the game (romance options) that would happen, and I wanted to be able to persuade characters, which needed a high cunning.  My character is a mage, I focussed on magic first, then willpower, then went for some cunning to get my way.  I tossed in some strength (to increase inventory space) and con (because I pull aggro all the time).  I've been doing great in the game.  

And yep, when I do a replay and I'm putting points for Alistair, strength will be a big one, but I'll focus more on dex than con for him so he doesn't get hit so much.  (I doubt I'll ever make my own tank)  I made the mistake of giving Alistair con and ignoring dex.  I thought dex, must be for rogues, but nope it's good for warriors too.  lol  Good thing my mage also doubles as a healbot when I want, and health potions are easy enough to make.

Modifié par Lady Rivinn, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:24 .

[Kualau]

Random_Havoc wrote...
First thing you got to know about tactics is that the only execute one tactic per ‘round’ so the order of your tactics are very important. 

Ahhhhhhhh......  sure wish I'd known that.

I got this game via download.  I wish there was a tutorial for tactics.

[Bane]

Strength does not increase inventory space. You have to buy backpacks if you want to carry more stuff.

[Lady Rivinn]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Strength does not increase inventory space. You have to buy backpacks if you want to carry more stuff.

Oops.  I probably only used maybe 2-3 points total in strength, so no real loss in any case.  I swear the Baldur's Gate for ps2 gave inventory space for extra strength or something... which is probably why I thought that.

And yes, I've bought backpacks.  But I'm a packrat and don't have the dlc just yet, so I was desperate for more inventory space.

Modifié par Lady Rivinn, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:27 .

[montana_boy]

Kualau wrote...

Hey all - I'm at the point where I'm starting to regret buying the game, because it's gotten so frustrating.  It seems as though every time I get into combat, I get wiped out in 10 seconds or less if there is a mage in the group that is attacking me.   He casts one fireball, and my group health gets wiped out because we're all stunned and then get ripped up.  Did the developers have a hardon for casters?

I have the tactics for Lelianna set to archer, but she stands around in melee and doesn't get out of range when we're in combat.  I could be beating the hell out of something (I chose a warrior) but they'll just turn to her even if I have "Threaten" on and 2 shot her.  I spent a bunch of time trying to outfit her and Alaister with some gear I was able to find/buy, but nothing seems to help.  I tried using the dog for a while because of the aoe stun; he does some decent damage, but it isn't enough before we get overwhelmed.

If I see a Revenant, I know I'm going to lose.  I went to elf forest area, and messed with a tombstone, and up popped some skeletons and a revenant, and I get slaughtered in 10 seconds.  Areas are covered in traps, and I stumble in to every single one.

The tactics menu has like 1928731231 options; I try and program the thing, but all my characters do is stand around and autoattack.  No, I don't have "Hold" on.

I know I chose "Normal" difficulty but it sure as **** seems like Hardmode.

Where can I go to get a list of predefined tactics for an NPC I want to be an archer that will run out of melee and pelt things from a distance?   I just picked up Wynne the healer/mage, and I need tactics for her too.  Where can I find tactics for Alistair so he doesn't just autoattack, and actually use the abilities he has?

Why don't Gift items have text/names that indicate that they are especially useful for certain NPCs? (aside from "Alistair's Mother's Amulet").  

The game is beautiful, and I want to be able to enjoy playing it without getting my ass kicked every time I get into combat.  I had a random encounter where I meet up with this tradesman who attacks me after I ask him if he sold this book to some mages.  I saw a mage up on the hill above me, so I went and killed him really quick, ran back, and I won.  For some reason I didn't save, and repeated the encounter, and he cast a fireball first, frying everyone, including his side.  I restarted the encounter.  I run toward him faster, get hit by a fireball, and am flat on my back for like 20-30 seconds while everyone else gets slaughtered.  Restart.  I run toward him, get paralyzed, watch everyone die.  Restart.  Run toward him, kill him, but by the time I do, everyone else is dead.

At this point I'm just cheating and autokilling everything whenever it looks bad. I hate doing that, but I'm kinda tired of wasting time dying every other fight.

/endrant

In the beginning I had trouble with Revenant  but I learned to defeat them by setting my PC and two companions way back and equiping them with ranged weapons and putting them on hold... then I use my tank to hold argro on the Revenant and keep him alive with health potions.  It has worked pretty good so far.  Additionally if you have an enemy mage raising hell I use Morrigan shapeshifited to Bear and focus her on the mage.  You got to take the mage out as soon as you can or he will tear you apart... The only problem I have had is in the Brecellian (sic) forest where the Revenant spawns into the game with a lot of skeleton support.. I have not been able to defeat that scenario as yet... lastly if you are getting really frustated set the game to easy.

[Kualau]

Ghandorian wrote...
 Don't try and play this game like you play your wow toon. It is a different genre of gaming all together. It is slow, methodical and practiced rather than fast and sweaty.

The whole thing that counts here is that you can and will loose sometimes.

Heh - it could be that there is an analogy here.

Older gaming genres seem to like it slow and methodical - kinda like older folks and sex.  The younger crowd seems to like it fast and sweaty - kinda like the 11 million people playing World of Warcraft at $15/month.

A developer reading this thread might want to make note of that.      

[Haexpane]

Bane_v2 wrote...

Take a look at my warrior here if you wish. Item spoiler warning!
Strength and Constitution are your most important stats. 42 Strength is needed for the massive armors.
26 Dexterity is the highest you need in order to be able to use one of the shield talents. I didn't go any higher than that.
I never invested in Willpower and was able to sustain two or three talents and have enough Stamina left over to fire off my activated talents at least once. That's plenty for most fights if you use them strategically.
I only increased Cunning when I had a skill point to spend on Coercion. Other than that I ignored it.

The GDD stat seems real low for a lvl 20, but you are going 1H so IDK stats on 1H starfang vs. 2h

Personally I went mostly STR, not as much CON, the trade off was much  higher GDD, the HP boost from CON I found useless, especially since it didnt help STA.

[Roxlimn]

Get Crushing Prison

Use Crushing Prison on Mages

Win

[Pickyguy]

if u're new its best not to screw up ur tactics n leave them alone. cause u probably dont know what ur messing with. if u find urself getting ambushed, before entering any area, hold ur party behind n run in with ur tank, when the enemy spawns around ur tank, run ur tank back to ur group n unhold them. so all the enemies will be infront of your group instead of surrounding. a good build for newbies is 2 tanks 1 archer 1 mage. mage should have area spells and heal spells. with the 2 tanks learning the shieds skill tree.

[bzombo]

Jassper wrote...

Kualau wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...
Why do so many warriors whine about this?

1)  Reading stat desciptons will show you that willpower will give you more stamina.
2)  There is no need to have stances up at all times. 
3)  This isn't WoW, you can't just mash buttons on your abilities, you actually have to use them where appropriate and weigh the stamina cost against the benefits.

You're right-  I play a main raid tank in WoW.  I'm not understanding why I'm given abilities that I'm not supposed to use, because autoattack isn't doing **** for damage.  If I'm not supposed to be in a defensive stance while tanking, why am I given it to use?

Willpower?  What the hell does Willpower have to do with physical prowess?  I thought it was a mage thing.  I've put all my points into Strength and Constitution so I could wear armor and weapons I thought would keep me alive and be useful, and have the health to take some damage.  I need to invest in Willpower to be able to bash the **** out of someone's face with a shield?

I believe it is 25 points of Stanima for one point of willpower - so only a few points need be spent. And yes, willpower has everything to do with how long you last in a fight.

yup, and if you're doing maneuvers that require more exertion than normal combat, you're going to pay for it.