112 réponses à ce sujet

[bzombo]

Kualau wrote...

Lady Rivinn wrote...

Um, don't raid tanks do almost no dps? Tanks tank. Not dps. Your three party members do your dps. And you can't just mash any button as a tank in wow, usually you have to use some format and cycle through certain abilities? (wouldn't really know though, I played a healer in raids, not a tank)

iT's almost better to invest in dex to avoid hits, than con and try to soak up hits (according to what I've read). And willpower gives warriors/rogues more stamina, and mages more magic. So willpower is important for a tank.

Raid tanks do damage that does a disproportionate amount of threat (usually baked into a particular stance that doesn't require upkeep using the same resource as your primary abilities).  The damage they do is significant, though not near the amount of a true dps'r.  That being said, tanks don't need to rely on their dps to be present to win every single enounter.

So what I'm hearing is that I need to invest in strength to wear armor/weapons, invest in constitution to have a health pool, invest in willpower to use my abilites, invest in dexterity to avoid hits, and invest in cunning so I can intimidate. 

And I only get 3 points per level?  Did any of the developers actually PLAY a warrior?  Or were they too busy making new spell effects?

/sigh

the game's a tactical rgp. use the space bar. you don't want to, btu the game is designed for its use. you're making things a lot harder on yourself.

[Kualau]

bzombo wrote...

the game's a tactical rgp. use the space bar. you don't want to, btu the game is designed for its use. you're making things a lot harder on yourself.

What's tactical about having a fireball thrown at you in the first 3 seconds of a combat and having your party wiped out?   It's just frustrating and stupid.

[Spaceweed10]

Kualau wrote...

bzombo wrote...

the game's a tactical rgp. use the space bar. you don't want to, btu the game is designed for its use. you're making things a lot harder on yourself.

What's tactical about having a fireball thrown at you in the first 3 seconds of a combat and having your party wiped out?   It's just frustrating and stupid.

I have never been 1-shotted by a fireball - don't lie.

A lot of folk have tried to help you in this thread, but you are just coming across as a little 'WoW' QQ'er now.

[Roxlimn]

Kualau:



If you know that you're going to get hit by a Fireball, then the thing to do is to put Lesser Warmth Salves on everyone and use something like Crushing Prison on the enemy Mage, yes?



Warmth Salves are trivial to get and Shield Wall or Indomitable combined with this will render your Warriors mostly immune to a Fireball, for most intents and purposes.



The tactical thing about this game is that you CAN set things up so that that Fireball in the first 3 seconds of the game doesn't do much of anything.

[Kualau]

Spaceweed10 wrote...

I have never been 1-shotted by a fireball - don't lie.

A lot of folk have tried to help you in this thread, but you are just coming across as a little 'WoW' QQ'er now.

I never said I was 1-shot.  Having a fireball cast at you when your party is grouped up for a fat wad of damage accompanied by a long stun and then having everyone cut up by other spells/melee within 10 seconds isn't fun- it's stupid.

As I said, I'm very much appreciative of the help.  I'm listing things that I don't like and have happened, or that I find frustrating in the hope that people can assist with solutions.

"Don't lie."  Whatever dude- don't be an ****.

[Rajiid]

I played a shield warrior my first way through it. So I think I can help you pretty well, and my party was Alistar(shield warrior), Morrigane(Heal/Stun), and Liliana(Archer/Bard). I didn't even use Wrynne. Here is what you do, on normal at least.
(Note, you NEED to have a herbalist in your group, or you will need to spend a lot of money.

TACTICS: Alistar/Tank
#1: Enemy: Nearest visible Mage: Cleanse Area/Holy Smite/Assault(Choose)
#2: Enemy: Nearest visible Mage: Attack.
#3: Self: Health >25%: Greatest Health Potion
#4: Enemy: Lowest Health: Shield Bash
#5: Enemy: Attacking Liliana/Morrigane(Choose): Taunt/(Multiple shield hits, I forget the name)
With that to start, you can change the rest how you see fit. And I never changed his behaviour pattern, I kept him at Aggressive.

Modifié par Rajiid, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:29 .

[zeejay21]

Another day, another 'this game is so hard!' thread....

[Rajiid]

Which is odd, because it isn't, until you fight Revenants or Liliana's personal quest. Those god damn bandits...

[jdi_knght]

Mages are ridiculous until you know how to deal with them. The problems are:

1) They're in the back, safely destroying your group at range.

2) Since by default your group is pretty clumped, it's easy to get destroyed within the first few seconds.



There are a few ways to deal with them, but just about all involve pausing the game, or trying to set up really well beforehand. I can understand why you hate them so much, but it's a little gimmicky - if you set things up right it becomes pretty easy, and if you don't.... well you'll always hate them and the fights.



Generally, a few various things I've done to deal with them (can mix/match some stuff):

1) Spread everyone out before the fight (preferably) or the moment it starts (with a pause). Otherwise there's the chance of the group being knocked down and you'll probably get at least 1 death before everyone recovers.

2) Start off with the group out of sight and bring a stealthed rogue near the mage for a stun (don't open the fight with the rogue though or they'll aggro all the mobs). Open with someone else, pause, switch to rogue and stun. Note that if the mage is out of range of the main group but aggroed you'll be chasing, so keep that in mind when positioning the rogue.

3) Use a mage with crushing prison on their caster (if you happen to have the stealthed rogue nearby, save the stun once crushing prison ends).

4) Send 1 melee dps'er on the mage to keep them busy while the rest of the group is in their own clump fighting the melee. As long as there aren't a zillion archers near the mage, this doesn't have to be the tank. Not great as an opener, but a decent thing to do once the battle's underway.

5) Line-of-sight-pull. Because the party members are kinda dense (and anyone you don't control will often go running in as soon as they're attacked), select the full party and have them ALL move in sight, then ALL move back to make the mobs run to you. I've kited this way down a couple hallways before, until I got to an ideal room. This still leaves the issue of everyone being clumped up once the mage shows up, but sometimes you can pick off each mob quickly as they arrive around the corner and do a little positioning before the mage(s) arrive.

6) The chance-to-stun enchant can be helpful, particuarly when you run out of stuns/interrupts. Sometimes you get lucky procs.



A lot of others mentioned some of the stuff they do, and they're all great options too. There are various ways to deal with mages, and just look around, see what you might like best, and go with it.



Those freaking revnants on the other hand are another story. I had a game where I tackled that area mid-way through and chugged about 15 healing pots per encounter. The 2nd game I waited until a much higher level to do it and it was a cakewalk (didn't need to use any health pots or lyrium potions, just caster heals).



Really, if all else fails, I know others have mentioned it, and... just drop the difficulty level. The tactics for various fights are really such a small part of the game, and if it's not the part of the game you enjoy, it's not worth beating your head over. Dump the difficulty and enjoy the other 95% of the game.

[Rajiid]

If you aren't pressed to the limit by Revnants, it just doesn't seem right. I attacked all of them as soon as I found out where they were, after setting up all my party with the sustained spells, and precise striking. And holy moley, they were tough, and yeah, I drained 15 health potions each encounter, but it made it so much more fulfilling to finally smash their head in with my shields.



Dragons were another story, bad news bears there, and Alister was the one who ALWAYS got the killing blow, each and every time. Lol.

[B33ker]

When you get into a fight, press space to pause it right away, then hold TAB down and skim the field. Look for mages and archer types.



Choose Leliana and have her aim for the mage. Depending on your level and what abilities she has, choose something that either stuns or can outright kill the target. When you aren't controlling her, if she's set on Archer and Ranged she should do a pretty good job of taking things out as long as she's got a decent bow. If you messed with the defaults at all, reset them back to their original settings.



Take spells for your mage that stun or cripple the enemy (Blizzard, Mass Paralysis, Crushing Prison, etc). Crushing Prison is a good one to get early on as it can stop an enemy mage quickly and has a short cast time. Drop that on them then rush in with a rogue to backstab em dead in a couple of hits (assuming the prison doesn't kill them outright). Blizzard is very effective against archers, and not too long to cast.



When going through dungeon areas, it pays to be in direct control of the rogue, stealthed, and watching for traps.



Don't forget to set at least one slot in the tactics menu for each character to use a health potion if you get to less than 50% health. (Try 25% if you want, but I prefer 50% as it gives me a better chance to survive those lucky hits). Doing that will take a ton of pressure off the healer (assuming you spec'd a mage for healing as well as offense). Wynn is a good healer to start with, Morrigan is a better offensive caster. Either one can be tweaked into a good all around utility mage, or use em both with one as healer only and one as damage dealer.



If you don't want to spend time mirco-managing the party, you've likely picked the wrong game to play. Near the end of things, you won't win any other way.

[Arnham]

The tactics basically go "down the list" when you set them up.

That means if you have a tactic that say, attacks the nearest visible enemy as the #1 (topmost) slot, pretty much anything below that is never ever going to actually work.

The general rule of thumb for tactics is potion use first, then sustained or combat abilities you want them to use under certain conditions (for example, shield bashing enemies that are targeting Wynne), and finally the default attack last.

Also tactics work fine for the most part once you get them setup correctly, but you're still going to want to pause and take manual control on the tougher fights, even on normal. You might be able to get away without pausing on easy, but I haven't tried playing on easy at all, so I couldn't say =P

[Yevgenii]

Kualau wrote...

Ah yeah - I picked a warrior, with all my points in tanking - sword/board all the way. Trouble is, I never have enough stamina to really use my abilities- it seems to all be locked up in upkeep. Why do I even have the abilities if I need to stay in Threaten and have the defensive stance thing up an running and never have the energy to use them?

I'm afraid to say it, (and I hate it when others say this too) but you just need a big ole dose of Learn 2 Play.
Fortunately, theres a guide for it. Double Fortunately, its free. Hit the books.

Or maybe this isn't your type of game? Many people don't like the tactical RPG-ishness. The fact is, you'll have to pause, you'll have to do it every couple of seconds, you'll have to micromanage at EVERY corner, or you'll die like a cancerous 2 year-old in Antarctica. If this isn't your idea of fun, I'll be the first to tell you that you bought the wrong game.

[Justin2k]

With the fireball you keep mentioning, I'm pretty much assuming its the book selling quest giver who has a mage up on a hill. You just need to take that mage out before the melee kill your party members. Have Morrigan freeze it from range and Leliana help take it out while you get tanking one or two soldiers and Alistair on the boss.



Failing that just hope your party can deal with it and go up and kill the mage yourself, switching to your party members to use potions.



Mages hit hard but they are really easy to take out.

[KEMKA]

@OP - I'm fairly sure you can download the game manual, there's a link on the forums somewhere (I'm assuming from your post about having downloaded the game that you don't have access to the manual!) I haven't actually played the game yet (no computer till 14th dec ) so I can't really give you any proper advice... but from what I've read on the forums I think the way you configure your tactics can actually come up with some unwanted side effects - like characters just standing still - you may need to use a number of settings to create the kind of behaviour your want? I think the best way to solve the problems you are having is to really read up on the tactics system? (boring but it may be worth it if you can then really enjoy combat!)

The micro-management aspect of the combat is just game design i think, alot of people either love or hate it! (sorry the odd 1 or 2 posters are being asses... please ignore them!)

[KEMKA]

whoops! double post

Modifié par -k-a-t-e-, 30 novembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[Oliver Sudden]

Whenever I see a thread like this I think how much easier some people would find it if they could just save during a fight. I guess there's some reason why BioWare doesn't allow that, or why some people would scream heresy or be somehow offended, but like in the OP's initial battle scenario, it would sure be less of a problem if he could save after wiping out the revenant's guards.



I can't count the number of times I had my goal close in a battle and had to redo the whole thing again. I'm not sure how much work it would be to code that in, but it would keep from having to do the entire battle over and over!

[Sylixe]

Kualau wrote...

I could really use a list of instructions on exactly what to set where in the Tactics menu for my NPCs. Imagine a guy that wants to sit down and kick some ass without micromanaging every single thing my NPCs do. Isn't there a command that tells them to attack my target?

I have my archer and mage set to Ranged, and they still stand in melee. I see the enemy archers/casters running away from me, so why isn't that behavior mirrored?

I'm trying to figure out why you would buy a game that you didn't want to manage everyone in your group?  Do you want to just watch the game play for you?  If you want to be successful you have to do some micro in game on your characters.  Otherwise you will not be successful in game often.

[Ginnerben]

Kualau wrote...

bzombo wrote...

the game's a tactical rgp. use the space bar. you don't want to, btu the game is designed for its use. you're making things a lot harder on yourself.

What's tactical about having a fireball thrown at you in the first 3 seconds of a combat and having your party wiped out?   It's just frustrating and stupid.

The tactical bit is having your characters set up so that
a) they can't be knocked down
they take out the mages before the mage used Fireball (Mage: Nearest Enemy Mage -> Use Crushing Prison.  Or, Lelliana: Nearest Enemy Mage -> Use Arrow of Slaying).  
c) When they get up, they all use potions
Yes, Mages can be a pain if you're not prepared.  But this is why there's an option to pause.  If you don't want to pause, then either play on easy, or play a different game because the game is balanced around pausing. 

Oh, and a tip because I didn't see it mentioned - Don't turn on your sustained abilities at the start of the fight.  Use Taunt/Shield Bash/whatever else you want to open with first, and then turn them on.  That way, you get to use up the Stamina they'll stop you from regenerating.  

[F-C]

you really need to set the game to the easiest setting and just practice learning to be more tactical in combat. you should be pausing the game as soon as a fight starts and looking around to see what you are fighting. picking out the highest threat targets and neutralizing them with any means possible.



really it just sounds like this is your first group based tactical combat game you have ever played and you just need to set it to the easiest setting and practice.

[Thrasher91604]

My advice, turn off tactics (except maybe for emergency healing poultices and spells).
Use the spacebar to pause every round, and issue orders.
Sneak up on the mage and disable him as soon as possible, hopefully before he gets his fireball off (with a spell, sneak attack, or bow/crossbow special attack), and continue to pummel him until he is out of the battle.

Modifié par Thrasher91604, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:14 .

[el86gr]

beaf up alister and get taunt. also party with wynne.
and u can pretty much kill anything.

rogues see traps, always go stealth with your rogue to check for traps and disarm them,
leaving your party around the corner. (zevran can do it, leliana can learn stealth).

dont charge in.
body-pull with alister with small steps for as less agro as possible,
pull them around a corner so archers/mages come to melee range.

when all is here just taunt and heal alister, (stun if possible, then) kill mage.

[Roxlimn]

PS: yes, it is possible to assign Tactics so that all NPCs attack your target. That's actually one of the most basic ways to tweak the tactics thing. It's like, as basic as switching up armor when you get a better set.



I know this gets said snarkily a lot, but perhaps you should explore the game's premises a little more?

[Haexpane]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

My advice, turn off tactics (except maybe for emergency healing poultices and spells).
Use the spacebar to pause every round, and issue orders.
Sneak up on the mage and disable him as soon as possible, hopefully before he gets his fireball off (with a spell, sneak attack, or bow/crossbow special attack), and continue to pummel him until he is out of the battle.

Pausing for EVERY round of combat?  Good lord, it would take 150 hours to beat the game that way:crying:

[Thrasher91604]

EDIT: Double Post.

PS, Fix these crummy forums...

Modifié par Thrasher91604, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:14 .