112 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrasher91604]

And what is wrong with that? Why the hurry?

I'd prefer to play the game, rather than have the AI play it for me...

Modifié par Thrasher91604, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:13 .

[Ghandorian]

Kualau wrote...

Ghandorian wrote...
 Don't try and play this game like you play your wow toon. It is a different genre of gaming all together. It is slow, methodical and practiced rather than fast and sweaty.

The whole thing that counts here is that you can and will loose sometimes.

Heh - it could be that there is an analogy here.

Older gaming genres seem to like it slow and methodical - kinda like older folks and sex.  The younger crowd seems to like it fast and sweaty - kinda like the 11 million people playing World of Warcraft at $15/month.

A developer reading this thread might want to make note of that.      

There is somthing for you to take not in this too though.

wow is popular because it is oversimplified and very hard to loose. the UI mods make it ridiculous. you can set up a G15 to /target next: around an area killing stuff while you do your homework or take a bio break.

mmos like Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online require/d you to be on your toes at all times lest you get your butt handed to you in two hits. They only have thousands of players subscribed vs millions. Its not because wow is better, but just easier.

Same here. DAO is a tactical game that requires you to thing your way through. /target next while you eat some beefaronii is simply not going to cut it.

[Kualau]

I want to thank everyone for their replies (even the grumpy ones) and for putting up in turn with my grumpiness/frustration. I'm playing now and putting into practice some of the ideas/tactics posted here, and I'm already seeing some improvement. Thanks

[Palathas]

One thing I've found with enemy AI is that they fight as dead men, i.e. they fight is if this fight is their last. They don't conserve anything like the player has to and they don't care about tactical spell or ability placement. They just go all out with no regard for personal or ally safety.

So basically that's how you have to play to a certain extent. I've found that if I ignore any close melee types and get everyone to ranged attacks and take out mages first then at least half the archers then switch back to the stuff closer in I do well. I'll usually leave my mage attacking the archers with occasional crowd control with the fighters as needed.

The only exception to this is if there is a leader melee critter and then I'll send the tank in to keep it occupied. Although now that I have Crushing Prison for my mage I can usually use that to stop them and damage them at the same time.

Modifié par Palathas, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:15 .

[B33ker]

Palathas wrote...

One thing I've found with enemy AI is that they fight as dead men, i.e. they fight is if this fight is their last. They don't conserve anything like the player has to and they don't care about tactical spell or ability placement. They just go all out with no regard for personal or ally safety.

So basically that's how you have to play to a certain extent. I've found that if I ignore any close melee types and get everyone to ranged attacks and take out mages first then at least half the archers then switch back to the stuff closer in I do well. I'll usually leave my mage attacking the archers with occasional crowd control with the fighters as needed.

The only exception to this is if there is a leader melee critter and then I'll send the tank in to keep it occupied. Although now that I have Crushing Prison for my mage I can usually use that to stop them and damage them at the same time.

So very true.

A solid mage is pretty key, especially later on when there are a million things happening at once.  It's almost like back in the original EQ when you needed someone in the group just for crowd control purposes.  They direct the flow of things by how they cripple or slow up the enemy forces.

Crushing Prison on a charging Ogre is a lot of fun.  Then, even if it's +2 levels Shale and Dog beat it down so quick its sad.  Same for Blizzard on archers, they take enough damage to usually die, and if not, they are one hit kills by the time anyone else gets to them (assuming I dont toss a fireball out there to drop em first) 

As is usually the case in fantasy worlds, magic is key to success.  Just for kicks though I may try going through without one as a "change of pace" or "exercise in frustration".     The AOE stun Dog gets is just about as good as a mage spell anyway.

[ejikvkaske]

Meh, here's the simplest advice I can give: 2 mages with Cone of Cold = win.The game was so easy (on nightmare) I had to stop using CoC.

[StupidWiz]

I reduce all my parties' tactic to just "attack" and control all of their actions, of course it's done with a LOT of pause.. =P

[rushthatspeaks]

 Pfft, are you kidding. I gave up even playing the game on normal. I play it on easy. It's still pleasantly challenging. Normal mode was way too challenging for me. Since the game gives the same experience points and the same ending no matter what the difficulty I could give a crap less if I'm beating it on easy. There's enough frigging dialog in this game as it is. I don't want to spend 15 minutes each battle pausing and setting traps and poisons and getting eveyr move perfect blah blah blah. Just put it on easy and have fun with it. Screw all the hardcore gamer nerds who want to beat it on hard difficulties, they can have ctheir hard difficulties. 

[ejikvkaske]

rushthatspeaks wrote...

 Pfft, are you kidding. I gave up even playing the game on normal. I play it on easy. It's still pleasantly challenging. Normal mode was way too challenging for me. Since the game gives the same experience points and the same ending no matter what the difficulty I could give a crap less if I'm beating it on easy. There's enough frigging dialog in this game as it is. I don't want to spend 15 minutes each battle pausing and setting traps and poisons and getting eveyr move perfect blah blah blah. Just put it on easy and have fun with it. Screw all the hardcore gamer nerds who want to beat it on hard difficulties, they can have ctheir hard difficulties. 

It's a question of taste. I happen to like the tactical aspects of combat, so I play on nightmare. If you want a Diablo style of click & kill battles, you're better off playing on easy. That's no reason to throw insults and behave like a douche.

[Godeshus]

 Haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating.

I gave up at level 10 during my first playthrough on normal and almost rage quit.  I invested a bit of time into learning the game instead, and it has payed off big time.

Some things to consider.

If you are coming from rpg games like WoW, Diablo, etc. I understand why you may be having difficulty grasping DAO.  The thing is, rpg's come in many flavors. This one is simply different.  You can't expect the game to conform to your previous idea of an rpg. It simply won't. Instead, try to conform to the game. It'll save you headaches.

Ok, here are some things that I did to make the game possible, and I'm now playing on hard and it's not even that hard.

1-In early game, try not to spread your talents out. Focus on a single tree, perhaps 2.  You'll have plenty of opportunity to check out the other trees as the game progresses.

2-Don't rush into combat.  Take your time. If you switch to over the shoulder camera, you can see enemies well before they detect and attack you. You can equip different loadouts on your characters. Mages are already ranged with their staffs, but your warriors can have bows, even though they have no proficiencies.  You can switch to bows (I made my mbutton 4 as switch weapons so I can do it quickly), and shoot one enemy from far with your archer, then have your warriors and mages attack him with regular range shots as he starts to charge you. Usually you can take him out before he even gets close.

3-try to get area of effect spells as soon as possible on your mages. same as warriors. Focus on a single tree until you get something like fireball or blizzard, then start fanning out.  Sleep is an excellent spell, only you'll have to focus fire on one enemy, otherwise the others will wake up as soon as they get hit and your sleep spell is wasted.

4-Archers should have their behavior set to ranged, rather than default.

5-healing tactics should be at the top. The combat tactics work like this: It goes through the list until it sees something that is true, then executes the action then starts over at 1 again. It does not continue. So if tactic 1 is false, then tactic 2 is false, then tactic 3 is true, it will complete the action of tactic 3 and go back to 1. You may find this weird, I did, but it's rather efficient. there are nifty if/then situations you can setup that can be really helpful.

6-personally, I find rogues need a lot of tactic slots. Warriors less so, and mages even less. A mage WILL own your party with area of effect spells, unless you're playing on easy.

7-commit to a character as soon as you get him/her. Decide right away what type of character they will be and don't deviate. 

8-If you can't take on an enemy, then don't. Enemies such as revenants are optional. Just go back when you feel your level is high enough. Otherwise, you'll just get frustrated and mad.

I did all these things on my 2nd playthrough and now I'm just ripping through the game. I may even bump it up to nightmare soon, but I'm still having to reload 2-3 times on tougher fights.

And there really is no need to throw insults out.  It could easily be that this game is just not for you. However the game WAS made to be slow paced. If you don't like that it's ok, but when insulting those that do, you are insulting the people that the game WAS made for.  It just makes you look juvenile, and makes people like me wonder why we bother helping you at all.

Modifié par Godeshus, 01 décembre 2009 - 08:38 .

[Ryvak]

Kualau wrote...

bzombo wrote...

the game's a tactical rgp. use the space bar. you don't want to, btu the game is designed for its use. you're making things a lot harder on yourself.

What's tactical about having a fireball thrown at you in the first 3 seconds of a combat and having your party wiped out?   It's just frustrating and stupid.

Ive only been in one fight where this happened and ill describe how I got around it, to give you an example of the sort of thinking you need to employ in this game to get around tough encounters.

In my battle, it was right at the end of a cinematic bit and my party was grouped together - the enemy fired a fireball at my grouup and everyone got damaged/knocked down etc.
I had a few goes at it, but I managed to get around the opening fireball by doing the following:
#1 Somewhere in the options is a "auto-pause on combat" selection. Use this, its a lifesaver for initiating the combat without wasting time.
#2 Set your party to "hold" mode - that way they always go where you want, and dont wander. Its good for micromanaging.
#3 after a couple of goes I figured out that the fireball was targetted on my tank. So - when the combat started and the auto-pause kicked in - I did the following:
- Have my tank take a fire resistance potion.
- issued movement instuctions to split my party - I had them running in all directions away from the tank.

I then un-paused. Everything went to plan, the fireball missed everyone but the tank, who took 11 damage.

I was then able to re-pause, and think out my next move for each NPC.

Some people might even have better ways than that, but thats the beauty of the game, and thats the kind fo thing you are expected to do beat tactically tough encounters.

Modifié par Ryvak, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:05 .

[Scrobius]

This is what I have for Wynne, if it helps anyone.



1 - Self: Health < 25% == Heal

2 - Ally: Health < 25% == Group Heal

3 - Ally: Health < 50% == Heal

4 - Ally: Mana or Stamina < 25% == Mass Rejuvenation

5 - Ally: Mana or Stamina < 50% == Rejuvenate

6 - Ally: Health < 75% == Regeneration

7 - Self: Mana or Stamina < 25% == Rejuvenate

8 - Ally: Being attacked by a melee or magic attack == Heroic Defense

9 - Ally: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack == Heroic Offense

10 - Ally: Being attacked by a ranged attack == Heroic Aura

11 - Self: Mana or Stamina <10% == Use weakest lyrium potion

12 - Tank (pick the person): Being attacked by a melee attack == Glyph of Warding



The 3 "Heroic" lines aren't *that* great because obviously you just want the people that do participate in melee to have Heroic Offense, rather than anyone just being attacked for instance. However, if you set it to Ally: Any, or whatever it is, she'll just cast it over and over outside of combat.



It's not meant to be flawless, but I set it up like this to make Wynne fairly autonomous and not have to babysit her too much. It generally seems to work okay. She can chew through mana fairly quickly, so I do debate just deactivating the "Heroic" lines as needed, so she's only healing. The very last line I change about a bit depending on what new thing(s) she learns, etc. For example, if I get her to learn the Haste spell, sometimes I set it to Self: Any > Activate Mode: Haste, then move this line to the very top, or Enemy: Can't attack > Stonefist, while leaving this one at the bottom.



If it helps anyone, that's great, as that's all I intended to do. Have fun.

[tigrina]

Kualau wrote...

I want to thank everyone for their replies (even the grumpy ones) and for putting up in turn with my grumpiness/frustration. I'm playing now and putting into practice some of the ideas/tactics posted here, and I'm already seeing some improvement. Thanks

Ah well, want to add my little bit in too here. The most frustrating thing was that some party members are set up to target the mob you focussed on as player in tactics. Almost teared my hair out because of that before I found out I could fix it.

There is one thing you really do want to have though I think and that is some form of crowd control. There are several options: having Dog with his mass stun, Leliana with her mass stun song and/or the mage version on Wynne does make some fights a lot easier. Also Glyph of Paralysis and/or Crushing prison is a good spell to have on your mage (you really want a mage in your default party set up). I didn't give Wynne Mass Paralysis (for RP reasons) but it is a really useful spell.

And on those revenants, they are a **** to kill, since they are immune to spell damage, but not totally immune on stuns. Just think of that before you let one on the loose.

Btw, my current run is with Alistair tank, Wynne healer, Dog as dog, me as rogue. As rogues go, they do need quite a bit of micro tactics or at least I do need it with my rogue. Decent gear did help a lot though.

Modifié par tigrina, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:57 .