418 réponses à ce sujet

[ninjaNumber1]

Tequila Man wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

And the principle is inconsistent because you want to go after developers who make 1% mistakes in their games but not after those who botch up the entire game.

Pretty far from the problem.

Here's what separates the two scenarios:

1) I don't care enough about the developers who botched the entire game. I hated the Darkness 2, but I'm not petitioning for alterations. I care about Mass Effect 3 far more than the Darkness 2. Basic principle: people are more likely to complain about things they are invested in.

2) I'm far less likely to get an entire game remade than a small portion of it. Basic principle: Realism.

3) There is a substantially greater degree of collective agreement regarding the ME3 ending, increasing the likelihood of this movement succeeding. Basic Principle: Collective action influencing development.

Those are the standards I currently hold Mass Effect to. When another series meets these criteria, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon.

But what you are saying is even worse. It seems that the fault of Bioware was actually giving you a great story in previous games.

According to your logic, they should just made mediocre games so that then you won't punish them for it....

What you have to realize is that regardless of feasibility or reasons, you do use an unfair standard by penalizing the one who does most of it right and not doing much against those who do nothing right.

Yes. If they hadn't set the bar so high, creatively, we wouldn't be here outraged.

And how unfair is that? 

In terms of crime, its like saying you go after the one who commits a small mistake while not caring about those who are repeated offenders/murderers etc. You don't see anything wrong there?

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 22 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[HenchxNarf]

S1at3 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?

The charity is a cheap publicity stunt.  Noone really cares about those kids.

I give to great ormond street (sick child hospice) every month.  i don't do it to get an ending redone on a video game.  I think the charity move is extremely tacky and a bid to make you look less entitled than you are.  Bioware owe you nothing, sorry but they really don't.

Pretty much on the money.  Its kind of a distraction.  "Don't pay attention to the death threats, crying and inappropriate attacks, look at the money we're raising!"

lol My husband just said almost this exact thing.

They're not doing it for charity, they're doing to show EA/Bioware "Look at the money! Look at the money!" They don't care about the kids.

[Tequila Man]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?

Donating for the reason you guys donated is disgusting, tbh.

Couldn't resist.



Ask the sick kids if they care.

You're totally missing the point, but whatever.

Thought the point was the charity; I'm actually taking a neutral stance by saying the kids don't give a rats *** about where the money comes from. I'm disgusting? Great. I made a kids life better. I may have to go shower, now, I feel so dirty.

[Tequila Man]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

And the principle is inconsistent because you want to go after developers who make 1% mistakes in their games but not after those who botch up the entire game.

Pretty far from the problem.

Here's what separates the two scenarios:

1) I don't care enough about the developers who botched the entire game. I hated the Darkness 2, but I'm not petitioning for alterations. I care about Mass Effect 3 far more than the Darkness 2. Basic principle: people are more likely to complain about things they are invested in.

2) I'm far less likely to get an entire game remade than a small portion of it. Basic principle: Realism.

3) There is a substantially greater degree of collective agreement regarding the ME3 ending, increasing the likelihood of this movement succeeding. Basic Principle: Collective action influencing development.

Those are the standards I currently hold Mass Effect to. When another series meets these criteria, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon.

But what you are saying is even worse. It seems that the fault of Bioware was actually giving you a great story in previous games.

According to your logic, they should just made mediocre games so that then you won't punish them for it....

What you have to realize is that regardless of feasibility or reasons, you do use an unfair standard by penalizing the one who does most of it right and not doing much against those who do nothing right.

Yes. If they hadn't set the bar so high, creatively, we wouldn't be here outraged.

And how unfair is that? 

In terms of crime, its like saying you go after the one who commits a small mistake while not caring about those who are repeated offenders/murderers etc. You don't see anything wrong there?

Actually, a better analogy would be the huge tycoon who does awesome things and then we find out he's been lying the whole time. Yes, we come down harder on those folks because of what they did to our time and belief.

[Torrible]

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

The retakers seem to think that 5 minutes of bad ending can ruin the entire trilogy, reputation of Bioware and just about one's entire gaming experience. 

[S1at3]

HenchxNarf wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?

The charity is a cheap publicity stunt.  Noone really cares about those kids.

I give to great ormond street (sick child hospice) every month.  i don't do it to get an ending redone on a video game.  I think the charity move is extremely tacky and a bid to make you look less entitled than you are.  Bioware owe you nothing, sorry but they really don't.

Pretty much on the money.  Its kind of a distraction.  "Don't pay attention to the death threats, crying and inappropriate attacks, look at the money we're raising!"

lol My husband just said almost this exact thing.

They're not doing it for charity, they're doing to show EA/Bioware "Look at the money! Look at the money!" They don't care about the kids.

Its just like politicians and big business men.   Throw a little money out there and hope people ignore the underlying faults.

[KingKhan03]

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

[HenchxNarf]

Torrible wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

The retakers seem to think that 5 minutes of bad ending can ruin the entire trilogy, reputation of Bioware and just about one's entire gaming experience. 

LOLOLOL

YES!

[Mad-Hamlet]

But as above, people who like the game have been told to commit suicide. Moderators have had death threats.

If true, that's horrible and absolutely unacceptable. Odd though as well since a ban is literally a mouse click away. I'm fairly sure that, if these events occurred in this forum, the problem quickly solved itself and we're all the better for it.

[Johcande XX]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?

Donating for the reason you guys donated is disgusting, tbh.

Have you never gone to a store or a resturaunt that was advertising that for some reason that day that half the proceeds were going to charity?  They are drumming up business by using charity. 

Is retake doing the same, kinda. 
Is it a little underhanded, kinda.

But if you want to get the attention of people you need to do something to earn that attention.  Complaining on a forum just won't do it.  So they turned to a way that would.  I haven't donated to the charity yet, but I may now that Bioware has already addressed the fanbase.

Modifié par Johcande XX, 22 mars 2012 - 02:05 .

[Tequila Man]

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Sssssh! We're dirty because of it.

[ninjaNumber1]

Tequila Man wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

And the principle is inconsistent because you want to go after developers who make 1% mistakes in their games but not after those who botch up the entire game.

Pretty far from the problem.

Here's what separates the two scenarios:

1) I don't care enough about the developers who botched the entire game. I hated the Darkness 2, but I'm not petitioning for alterations. I care about Mass Effect 3 far more than the Darkness 2. Basic principle: people are more likely to complain about things they are invested in.

2) I'm far less likely to get an entire game remade than a small portion of it. Basic principle: Realism.

3) There is a substantially greater degree of collective agreement regarding the ME3 ending, increasing the likelihood of this movement succeeding. Basic Principle: Collective action influencing development.

Those are the standards I currently hold Mass Effect to. When another series meets these criteria, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon.

But what you are saying is even worse. It seems that the fault of Bioware was actually giving you a great story in previous games.

According to your logic, they should just made mediocre games so that then you won't punish them for it....

What you have to realize is that regardless of feasibility or reasons, you do use an unfair standard by penalizing the one who does most of it right and not doing much against those who do nothing right.

Yes. If they hadn't set the bar so high, creatively, we wouldn't be here outraged.

And how unfair is that? 

In terms of crime, its like saying you go after the one who commits a small mistake while not caring about those who are repeated offenders/murderers etc. You don't see anything wrong there?

Actually, a better analogy would be the huge tycoon who does awesome things and then we find out he's been lying the whole time. Yes, we come down harder on those folks because of what they did to our time and belief.

Sigh, I give up dude. Your big tycoon case is again an incorrect analogy because then you go on to say that he was lying the whole time.

In this case, the Big Tycoon happens to have done a great job in the past. He just slipped up once. Now you want to come down hard on them... to me, that just shows ingratitude.

But I feel that we will never agree on this, so I think we should just agree to disagree.

[Erield]

[quote]Tequila Man wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Coolfaec wrote...

[quote]Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al[/quote]

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?
[/quote]

Donating for the reason you guys donated is disgusting, tbh.
[/quote]

I bet all those damned corporations donating millions and billions of dollars in order to not pay taxes make you sick, too.  People should only give money to charity out of the altruistic goodness of their heart, and with absolutely no hidden benefit to be gained--period.

Oh **** me, I donate every year because it gives me this warm glowy feeling of actually helping in some way since I'm too lazy to do anything in person.  Guess I should take your example and just never do anything.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

But what you are saying is even worse. It seems that the fault of Bioware was actually giving you a great story in previous games.

Hence why I hold them to a higher standard. As someone else said, an A for a science paper in elementary school constitutes something different than an A for an undergraduate student. Different levels, different standards, expectations, etc.

According to your logic, they should just made mediocre games so that then you won't punish them for it....

Quite the contrary. Another studio I wouldn't even offer the promise of redemption. I simply wouldn't buy their next product. I offer Bioware that opportunity, while still being able to make a profit off me through dlc offerings.

What you have to realize is that regardless of feasibility or reasons, you do use an unfair standard by penalizing the one who does most of it right and not doing much against those who do nothing right.

That's where the realism claim comes in. Bioware did "most of it right", but the bit they did wrong was bad as to crush the entire experience, to the point where many (myself included) have no desire to replay the series. Compare that to a game I bought on a mere whim and found unsatisfactory.

Which sounds more feasible: convincing a developer to remake an ending, or an entire experience?

The former is something I can see being done, especially since the number of people coordinating this are on a large scale. I don't see myself coordinating with 50k+ fans to convince 2K to remake the Darkness 2 according to my specifications.

[trembli0s]

 I love the leaps of logic and flights of fancy that you guys are starting to pull now.

Following your logic, every serviceman in the US armed forces could now also be claimed to be a psycopathic murderer because one man snapped in Aghanistan recently.

Do you like that?

Don't make silly, baseless claims. Help us help you by pointing out these guys. There are extreme elements in every grouping and compound it with the anonymous nature of the internet.... well, you can see what happens sometimes.

Modifié par trembli0s, 22 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Coolfaec]

Justin2k wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?

The charity is a cheap publicity stunt.  Noone really cares about those kids.

I give to great ormond street (sick child hospice) every month.  i don't do it to get an ending redone on a video game.  I think the charity move is extremely tacky and a bid to make you look less entitled than you are.  Bioware owe you nothing, sorry but they really don't.

I give 10% of my income to charity every single month. Just because I donate it to a charity that also helps the cause I'm fighting for doesn't mean that I don't care about those kids. Don't question my motives.

That would be like me talking down to you by saying that you only donate to charity for tax benefits. You assume things without any evidence, and to top it off, you act like you have moral high ground, and that you are better than me.

If you think the charity is a cheap publicity stunt, you can send a message to the email link on the donation page and ask them. Though looking at how you're acting now, it's pretty safe to guess that you will simply ignore it.

Lastly, Bioware owes EVERYBODY that bought the game the endings they have promised. Not just for the upset fans, not just for publicity, not just for themselves, but because they broke the law.

Please, for the love of god, stop making these shallow generalizations that just make you look like an idiot, and make your cause seem even more insignifigant.

Modifié par Coolfaec, 22 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[HenchxNarf]

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Yes, it did. And you did it in a deplorable way, as well. It wasn't about charity or the sick kids. It was "HEY LOOK BIOWARE! Look how much money we have!"

[S1at3]

Torrible wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

The retakers seem to think that 5 minutes of bad ending can ruin the entire trilogy, reputation of Bioware and just about one's entire gaming experience. 

Exactly.  Do I want more explanation? Yes. However, I enjoyed the hundreds of hours I poured into the trilogy so I'm not going to freak out and start hurassing Bioware employees.  The last five, ten minutes, although disappointing, don't change the fact I enjoyed every other bit of the trilogy (even the new MP bits).

[thedude2086]

I would say for the most part the community has held itself extremely well. In all my browsing, the instances I've seen of members going too far has been extremely small. That being said, nobody complains when celebrities give to pointless charities (I mean seriously, animals need that money more than children with no parents do?). Who cares why the money is donated. It's donated. Kids benefit.

[Tequila Man]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

But I feel that we will never agree on this, so I think we should just agree to disagree.

That's fine. We've been rather civil, I feel.

[HenchxNarf]

Erield wrote...

I bet all those damned corporations donating millions and billions of dollars in order to not pay taxes make you sick, too.  People should only give money to charity out of the altruistic goodness of their heart, and with absolutely no hidden benefit to be gained--period.

Oh **** me, I donate every year because it gives me this warm glowy feeling of actually helping in some way since I'm too lazy to do anything in person.  Guess I should take your example and just never do anything.

Charity is the act itself and the feeling behind it. You donate because you want to help, because you care enough to help. Not because you want to make a company feel bad about an ending YOU didn't enjoy.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 22 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[S1at3]

HenchxNarf wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Yes, it did. And you did it in a deplorable way, as well. It wasn't about charity or the sick kids. It was "HEY LOOK BIOWARE! Look how much money we have!"

Although I'm sure the children were happy the money was basically raised as an excuse to act like idiots.  Death threats, personal attacks, threatening people who enjoyed the ending.  Ignore that, we have money!

[Tequila Man]

HenchxNarf wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Yes, it did. And you did it in a deplorable way, as well. It wasn't about charity or the sick kids. It was "HEY LOOK BIOWARE! Look how much money we have! Look how much we cared about the game and the series and the ending! We actually made a charity for children with it.

I fixed it.

[rockman0]

Torrible wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

The retakers seem to think that 5 minutes of bad ending can ruin the entire trilogy, reputation of Bioware and just about one's entire gaming experience.  

Once again, individual opinions are not indicative of an entire group's opinion. You're generalizing. I disliked the ending and would like to see it changed. However, I still support Bioware. I'm still actively subscribed to their other game. I'll still buy Mass Effect 4,5,6,7 or whatever other ME game Bioware releases. And guess what? There are plenty of people of the same mindset that I am in.

So, again, some retakers think Bioware's reputation is ruined. But just as many do not.

[tomcplotts]

you want to see real venom, go hang out on a political message board. this is nothing. i've had more threats directed at me on a basketall board than on any gaming board.

I personally think all the aggravation is about more than just ME 3. A lot of poster show signs of cumulative frustration with the industry in general, and for many, I suspect this title wsa the proverbial last straw on the camel's back. Much of what's being contested--the Day 1 DLC excuse, the sloppy and rushed ending, the large chunks of missing game as well as the obliteration of anything resembling sidequests, the inclusion of a multiplayer that has an impact on the SP game--are all industry trends going back several years that many gamers have felt powerless to resist. For a lot of posters, all it was going to take to go off was another marketing perversion of a beloved franchise, and ME has one of the most devoted fanbases out there. I can't blame them for being upset.

As a couple of industry insiders have said recently, this is a watershed moment. But it is that for different reasons. We're seeing the stress of constant player abuse reaching it's maximum stretch--not in just this title, but many of the large releases over the past year or so.

I wish this doctor cat was right: that this was an issue of art. But that's a lie, and he knows it. This is an issue of commerce and only that.