418 réponses à ce sujet

[S1at3]

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Erield wrote...

[quote]Tequila Man wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Coolfaec wrote...

[quote]Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al[/quote]

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?
[/quote]

Donating for the reason you guys donated is disgusting, tbh.
[/quote]

I bet all those damned corporations donating millions and billions of dollars in order to not pay taxes make you sick, too.  People should only give money to charity out of the altruistic goodness of their heart, and with absolutely no hidden benefit to be gained--period.

Oh **** me, I donate every year because it gives me this warm glowy feeling of actually helping in some way since I'm too lazy to do anything in person.  Guess I should take your example and just never do anything.[/quote]

Charity is the act itself and the feeling behind it. You donate because you want to help, because you care enough to help. Not because you want to make a company feel bad about an ending YOU didn't enjoy.



[/quote]

Oh man I was hoping there was a thumbs up smiley for this because I agree 100%.  But there isn't.  Maybe I should throw a tantrum and start a charity.

[Johnnycide]

Somehow the uncondoned acts of individuals represent a community?

[Tequila Man]

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Erield wrote...

[quote]Tequila Man wrote...

[quote]HenchxNarf wrote...

[quote]Coolfaec wrote...

[quote]Justin2k wrote...

Lets be honest, I wouldn't blame Bioware if they turned around and said they were going to make text adventures for PC only.

And it would be you "fans" whining and crying about this. But really, would you want to make games for you lot? I don't get how you can call yourself fans with the spiteful and destructive way you go about getting what you want. You're certainly not fans of Jessica Merizan or Casey Hudson et al[/quote]

So you're going to say that donating to charity is a distructive way to make a point?
[/quote]

Donating for the reason you guys donated is disgusting, tbh.
[/quote]

I bet all those damned corporations donating millions and billions of dollars in order to not pay taxes make you sick, too.  People should only give money to charity out of the altruistic goodness of their heart, and with absolutely no hidden benefit to be gained--period.

Oh **** me, I donate every year because it gives me this warm glowy feeling of actually helping in some way since I'm too lazy to do anything in person.  Guess I should take your example and just never do anything.[/quote]

Charity is the act itself and the feeling behind it. You donate because you want to help, because you care enough to help. Not because you want to make a company feel bad about an ending YOU didn't enjoy.



[/quote]

Can't you do both? Does that make the money.... dirty? Who cares? I'm not saying it's the most altruistic of things, but... gross? I think not.

[HenchxNarf]

S1at3 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Yes, it did. And you did it in a deplorable way, as well. It wasn't about charity or the sick kids. It was "HEY LOOK BIOWARE! Look how much money we have!"

Although I'm sure the children were happy the money was basically raised as an excuse to act like idiots.  Death threats, personal attacks, threatening people who enjoyed the ending.  Ignore that, we have money!

IA

[Jaeral]

There's always some selfish reason to donate to charity even if it's just for that warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you donate out of nowhere. It makes you feel better and (in a lot of case) superior to others so your reason to donate is just as egoistic as other reasons.

And about the 1% spoiled issue: If you go into a stunningly beautiful building with 70 floors but no elevator, everyone would curse about the lack of it. Even if the elevator only makes 1% of the building and should be expected in such a high building.

Just my 2 cents.

[Leanansidhe]

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

Modifié par SKRemaks, 22 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[Sloppywilly]

I think it's important to realize that each side in every conflict from greatest to smallest has its moments and comments that they're not proud to say they own (especially death threats... ridiculous.). There's 50,000 likes on the Retake ME facebook page. That's a lot of people, that's more than the population of the town I'm living in right now 5-fold. To think that each and every one of them is amicable and "nice" is unfortunately naive thinking.

But these strong opinions are good, it's what makes us human, and if said opinions can be tamed it's what improves art. No matter what happens with Retake Mass Effect, Bioware will become a better company for this. They were risky and bold and attempted something and got a bad reaction. In my book that makes them artists. They're smart, they'll learn and you can bet that they'll make a fantastic game next time.

But as far as the ME Community? Well Kaidan can sum it up: "They're not different or special, they're jerks and saints just like anyone else."

It's the overall message to look at, the overarching arguments to ponder. Not the occasional nasty comment from someone who's just trying to get a rise.

Modifié par Sloppywilly, 22 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Tequila Man]

I donate to charity so I feel better about the awful things I have to do in the name of my profession. Literally, it's the most selfish thing I do.

*shrug* Guess I'm dirty.

Modifié par Tequila Man, 22 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[HenchxNarf]

SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

What happened to Jennifer was sad and it makes me sick that people would act like that.

Not to mention the PR people from Bioware having people want their pictures on their twitter so they can hunt them down.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 22 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Coolfaec]

SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

Yay! More generalizations!

But, it's me who is the immature one, right? Because I don't agree with you?

Modifié par Coolfaec, 22 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Esoretal]

I don't know what you've been reading, because I haven't seen it, but this is kind of an unfair rant to most of the community, which has been acting civil. In all honesty, the people who do these types of things probably aren't reading this anyway.

[Nonoru]

HenchxNarf wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

It most certainly can.

Care to develop on this ? 

[Tequila Man]

Esoretal wrote...

I don't know what you've been reading, because I haven't seen it, but this is kind of an unfair rant to most of the community, which has been acting civil. In all honesty, the people who do these types of things probably aren't reading this anyway.

If you knew the OP's thread history, you'd laugh.

[ninjaNumber1]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

But what you are saying is even worse. It seems that the fault of Bioware was actually giving you a great story in previous games.

Hence why I hold them to a higher standard. As someone else said, an A for a science paper in elementary school constitutes something different than an A for an undergraduate student. Different levels, different standards, expectations, etc.

According to your logic, they should just made mediocre games so that then you won't punish them for it....

Quite the contrary. Another studio I wouldn't even offer the promise of redemption. I simply wouldn't buy their next product. I offer Bioware that opportunity, while still being able to make a profit off me through dlc offerings.

What you have to realize is that regardless of feasibility or reasons, you do use an unfair standard by penalizing the one who does most of it right and not doing much against those who do nothing right.

That's where the realism claim comes in. Bioware did "most of it right", but the bit they did wrong was bad as to crush the entire experience, to the point where many (myself included) have no desire to replay the series. Compare that to a game I bought on a mere whim and found unsatisfactory.

Which sounds more feasible: convincing a developer to remake an ending, or an entire experience?

The former is something I can see being done, especially since the number of people coordinating this are on a large scale. I don't see myself coordinating with 50k+ fans to convince 2K to remake the Darkness 2 according to my specifications.

See, you are again brining up incompatible analogies such as Undergrad vs. HS Student etc. Sometimes its better to stick with the actual matter so that we don't get lost in analogies.

As the matter stands, you want to penalize the developer who does a good job 99% of the time while not doing anything much about someone who does 100% bad by their games or just makes mediocre games.

That is an inconsistency.

Now the reason why this is not that apparrant to you is all of a sudden you start thinking of cases like undergrads vs. HS. Why doesn't this analogy work? It doesn't work because the undergrad and HS student deals with different things. The undergrad might produce a work to be published at a conference. If there is an error in that work, lots of bad things can happen. REAL bad things. HS student merely produces stuff to be read by the teacher and then corrected.

But with the game industry, they are all producing GAMES and neither company has any REAL world impact/implications than the other. Just because ME3 ending sucked, an algorithm in a transfusion machine is not going to be in error. So there are no real world effects.

Hence, in gaming, all companies are equal as far as their end product and its effect goes.

[Vasparian]

SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

I love your ignorance. You lump those people with everyone unhappy with the endings. There is a word for what you are being.. stupid. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Sloppywilly wrote...

I think it's important to realize that each side in every conflict from greatest to smallest has its moments and comments that they're not proud to say they own (especially death threats... ridiculous.). There's 50,000 likes on the Retake ME facebook page. That's a lot of people, that's more than the population of the town I'm living in right now 5-fold. To think that each and every one of them is amicable and "nice" is unfortunately naive thinking.

But these strong opinions are good, it's what makes us human, and if said opinions can be tamed it's what improves art. No matter what happens with Retake Mass Effect, Bioware will become a better company for this. They were risky and bold and attempted something and got a bad reaction. In my book that makes them artists. They're smart, they'll learn and you can bet that they'll make a fantastic game next time.

But as far as the ME Community? Well Kaidan can sum it up: "They're not different or special, they're jerks and saints just like anyone else."

It's the overall message to look at, the overarching arguments to ponder. Not the occasional nasty comment from someone who's just trying to get a rise.

Indeed. How many movements are there, historically speaking, without their share of crazies and extremists? I'm not condoning what some of these idiots have done, but far as I'm aware, most have not endorsed it.

[jcmccorm]

Quite honestly, this community has been worth half of my purchase price. $80. Pre-ordered in JUNE.

I may not be having fun playing Mass Effect, but I sure am having fun explaining why I'm not having fun playing Mass Effect. It is like a strange meta-game that is built into the title. Weird.

[Erield]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Erield wrote...

The bigger action doesn't necessarily have the bigger consequence.  What Mr. Tequila is saying is that the game was great, except for the end, and wishes Bioware would change it.  Bioware still has his money, and he's okay with that.  Company 2 made a game, and it was terrible--Tequila didn't bother throwing a fuss, or getting mad, or demanding anything other than his money back.  Company 2 does not have his money any more.

Still the damage is more.

In the first case, with 1% error, Mr. Tequilla would hound the developer and give them negative publicity over that.

But in the case of a 100% error, Mr. Tequilla would just silently decide to not give their money to them ever again and maybe go take a refund.

In the first case, the beloved developer is made to suffer. In the 2nd case, the treatment is not even comparable to that of the first.

After reading this and some of your later posts, I think I understand what you're saying.  You seem to be concerned about the amount of damage to the company is being caused by the Retake movement, and how that will affect all future products by Bioware.

[pavi132]

Justin2k wrote...

Hate reading comments like "this community has been fantastic" and "yay we retook mass effect".

I didn't like the ending at all.  I didn't like the auto-dialogue.  I didn't like the multiplayer maps ruining the sidequests and i didn't like the new gay characters taking up more screen time than Ashley.

But I have never come on here and reduced Bioware staff to the point where they are visibly upset and refusing to come on the forums.  I have never tried to insist it is right for Bioware to give money to charity (which i'm sure they do).  I have never sworn at people who are just doing a job.

The crazy thing is, ME3 is a great game.  And you so called "fans" enjoyed 99.9% of 3 whole games.  It's just a video game, there are more important things in life.  What you've done to Jessica Merizan is wrong and you cannot call yourself a great community.  You are nothing more than trolls and spoilt gamers.  It's disgusting some of what you people have said to people who are bending over backwards to appease you and who in the end owe you absolutely nothing.  Get over it.

Sadly, the few people who this applies to also likely don't care what you think. So, who are you directing this to? 

[HenchxNarf]

Nonoru wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

It most certainly can.

Care to develop on this ? 

There are enough people that act this way that it does make the whole movement look bad. And people keep proving that no one can have a positive outlook on the boards. Every pro-game/pro-ending thread gets bogged down by trolls and people saying they're "dumb" "PR" "Trolls" etc.

[Tequila Man]

jcmccorm wrote...

Quite honestly, this community has been worth half of my purchase price. $80. Pre-ordered in JUNE.

I may not be having fun playing Mass Effect, but I sure am having fun explaining why I'm not having fun playing Mass Effect. It is like a strange meta-game that is built into the title. Weird.

I want to sig this.

[Primalrose]

I do agree alot of the reactions have been downright pathetic and disrespectful and I do think its alot more then "a few bad apples," having read almost every thread since the ending fiasco began. Many of these people need to focus on improving their real lives instead of depending on a video game for their well being, which is the impression I frequently get...

[NoUserNameHere]

I'd say we took the Renegade path. We also got results like a renegade.

[defenestrated]

Coolfaec wrote...

I give 10% of my income to charity every single month. Just because I donate it to a charity that also helps the cause I'm fighting for doesn't mean that I don't care about those kids. Don't question my motives.

That would be like me talking down to you by saying that you only donate to charity for tax benefits. You assume things without any evidence, and to top it off, you act like you have moral high ground, and that you are better than me.

If you think the charity is a cheap publicity stunt, you can send a message to the email link on the donation page and ask them. Though looking at how you're acting now, it's pretty safe to guess that you will simply ignore it.

Lastly, Bioware owes EVERYBODY that bought the game the endings they have promised. Not just for the upset fans, not just for publicity, not just for themselves, but because they broke the law.

Please, for the love of god, stop making these shallow generalizations that just make you look like an idiot, and make your cause seem even more insignifigant.

Thank you.

Any attack on the motivations of others really should be followed either by the statement "and I know because I'm psychic" or "and I hacked your email and/or phone and caught your moustache-twirling confession". If neither of those things are present, you don't know the motivations of others. You don't know if someone does or doesn't care about the Child's Play charity. You don't know their regular donation habits. You're guessing and you're doing it to attack people. Bad form.

[BHynes92]

Speaking for myself, I have made numerous posts in the last two weeks, all in support of the Retake Movement. In many of these posts, I made it the first order of business to compliment Bioware on the best game I have ever played. I then went on to criticise the last 10 minutes of said game. I have also stated numerous times that I still respect the hell out of Bioware for all they have given me over the past years (KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, and especailly Mass Effect); and I will respect them even more if they fix the endings. I have seen many other posts like mine in these respects. To restate what many have already said in this thread: jusdging the entire fanbase based on the actions of a few whackjobs (Death threats, FTC, etc) is highly unfair to the bulk of us who loved the game, just not the endings.