418 réponses à ce sujet

[Avl521]

Nice, go ahead with generalization.
Because stereotypes and generalizations are what drive this world forward. They take us to a better place.

Got the sarcasm in there?
Good.

BTW, if you think a community or consumer base is terrible because they demand what was promised and because they want what they paid for, you sir or lady, are a terribly ignorant person. Yes, some people were overreacting and attacking BioWare employees, but most of us here at the BSN have been extremely civilized and careful with our words at the developers. We want to portray the image that while dissatisfied with the game, we respect them and we just want to reach an agreement with them by showing them that they wronged the series and that it can be fixed.

So calm down before you say every German is a ****. That's stereotyping and it's a fallacy.

[Tequila Man]

Erield wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Erield wrote...

The bigger action doesn't necessarily have the bigger consequence.  What Mr. Tequila is saying is that the game was great, except for the end, and wishes Bioware would change it.  Bioware still has his money, and he's okay with that.  Company 2 made a game, and it was terrible--Tequila didn't bother throwing a fuss, or getting mad, or demanding anything other than his money back.  Company 2 does not have his money any more.

Still the damage is more.

In the first case, with 1% error, Mr. Tequilla would hound the developer and give them negative publicity over that.

But in the case of a 100% error, Mr. Tequilla would just silently decide to not give their money to them ever again and maybe go take a refund.

In the first case, the beloved developer is made to suffer. In the 2nd case, the treatment is not even comparable to that of the first.

After reading this and some of your later posts, I think I understand what you're saying.  You seem to be concerned about the amount of damage to the company is being caused by the Retake movement, and how that will affect all future products by Bioware.

We can all get along. Hey, you three, wanna go start a new thread called "Civil Discussion?" 

[ninjaNumber1]

Erield wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Erield wrote...

The bigger action doesn't necessarily have the bigger consequence.  What Mr. Tequila is saying is that the game was great, except for the end, and wishes Bioware would change it.  Bioware still has his money, and he's okay with that.  Company 2 made a game, and it was terrible--Tequila didn't bother throwing a fuss, or getting mad, or demanding anything other than his money back.  Company 2 does not have his money any more.

Still the damage is more.

In the first case, with 1% error, Mr. Tequilla would hound the developer and give them negative publicity over that.

But in the case of a 100% error, Mr. Tequilla would just silently decide to not give their money to them ever again and maybe go take a refund.

In the first case, the beloved developer is made to suffer. In the 2nd case, the treatment is not even comparable to that of the first.

After reading this and some of your later posts, I think I understand what you're saying.  You seem to be concerned about the amount of damage to the company is being caused by the Retake movement, and how that will affect all future products by Bioware.

Yes exactly! I feel that it is disproportionate considering how we treat companies that do us wrong 100% of the time and how we are treating BW for just screwing up the ending.

[Johcande XX]

Sloppywilly wrote...

I think it's important to realize that each side in every conflict from greatest to smallest has its moments and comments that they're not proud to say they own (especially death threats... ridiculous.). There's 50,000 likes on the Retake ME facebook page. That's a lot of people, that's more than the population of the town I'm living in right now 5-fold. To think that each and every one of them is amicable and "nice" is unfortunately naive thinking.

But these strong opinions are good, it's what makes us human, and if said opinions can be tamed it's what improves art. No matter what happens with Retake Mass Effect, Bioware will become a better company for this. They were risky and bold and attempted something and got a bad reaction. In my book that makes them artists. They're smart, they'll learn and you can bet that they'll make a fantastic game next time.

But as far as the ME Community? Well Kaidan can sum it up: "They're not different or special, they're jerks and saints just like anyone else."

It's the overall message to look at, the overarching arguments to ponder. Not the occasional nasty comment from someone who's just trying to get a rise.

This is exactly right, I think that people who generalize all those in the retake movement, are just really naive.  This is the internet, do you really need a "Warning there will be terrible people who say terrible things!" disclaimer?

[xxskyshadowxx]

To all the people who are crabbing about the Retake folks' donating to charity, please grow up. Everyone donates to charity for one selfish reason; it makes them feel good about it. Period...that's why people donate to a charity.

You're ragging on the folks who are venting their frustrations in terribly negative ways, and that is justifiable. But you are also ragging on people who are venting their frustration in a positive way. They could have just proven their numbers in a poll...instead they are proving their numbers in dollars to a GOOD cause.

Please stop trolling.

Thank you.

[KingKhan03]

HenchxNarf wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

lol this terrible community raised 70,000+ for charity.

Yes, it did. And you did it in a deplorable way, as well. It wasn't about charity or the sick kids. It was "HEY LOOK BIOWARE! Look how much money we have!"

since when does raising money for charity in any way deplorable? the point is its going to sick kids it doesn't matter what its about. Ask the organizations see if they give a crap where the moneys coming from.

[rockman0]

HenchxNarf wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

It most certainly can.

It might ruin your desire to eat an apple for a while, but that tree is still just as good. If farmers went around chopping down entire trees because of one rotten apple, well, those farmers wouldn't have much of a living. 

[danistrad]

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

[Tequila Man]

Ah, wait, ninjaNumber1. I actually think the second option is far worse. They lose me for that game and pretty much all future games.

[Torrible]

It is not a good community by any means.

While it is not the majority, many people are outright slamming the game with facetious comments like "worst game in the galaxy". People are writing their comedic versions of the ending and laughing at the writers. Memes like Marauder Shields are being thrown around to mock the ending. While not as bad as insults or death threats, it is more disheartening to the devs as it has been very commonplace. And I bet many of you will be saying "they gave us a bad ending, they deserve it."

No, they don't.

Modifié par Torrible, 22 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[jonal11]

Justin2k wrote...

Hate reading comments like "this community has been fantastic" and "yay we retook mass effect".

I didn't like the ending at all.  I didn't like the auto-dialogue.  I didn't like the multiplayer maps ruining the sidequests and i didn't like the new gay characters taking up more screen time than Ashley.

But I have never come on here and reduced Bioware staff to the point where they are visibly upset and refusing to come on the forums.  I have never tried to insist it is right for Bioware to give money to charity (which i'm sure they do).  I have never sworn at people who are just doing a job.

The crazy thing is, ME3 is a great game.  And you so called "fans" enjoyed 99.9% of 3 whole games.  It's just a video game, there are more important things in life.  What you've done to Jessica Merizan is wrong and you cannot call yourself a great community.  You are nothing more than trolls and spoilt gamers.  It's disgusting some of what you people have said to people who are bending over backwards to appease you and who in the end owe you absolutely nothing.  Get over it.

You must be a Teaparty person, you back nothing up with facts and totally dismiss what we care about. I have heard time and again about the negative narrative. I have yet to see it, either the mods are doing a great job, or you read to much Fox News. Oh and before you label me. I served in the US army. And played ME since the begining.

EDIT: Sorry I got political, it's just really pisses me off when people totally dismiss without talking about it. I should be a better person about it. But dammit, that's why I loved renagade shepard.

Modifié par jonal11, 22 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Darthlawsuit]

Ricvenart wrote...

You insist bioware has done the wrong thing in 90% of your post demand it was a waste of inclusion and should be removed.
While insulting people, making a false generalizations, to the point they never want to return to the forums.

[DemGeth]

Dark DJ wrote...

SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

I'm sorry I missed the part where these few people represented the entire Retake community.

Retake isn't a movement.  In a movement the fringe is actually held responsible because they reflect on the community.  

[HenchxNarf]

danistrad wrote...

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

So because he's stating how he feels, he's a troll?

Gotcha.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

See, you are again brining up incompatible analogies such as Undergrad vs. HS Student etc. Sometimes its better to stick with the actual matter so that we don't get lost in analogies.

As the matter stands, you want to penalize the developer who does a good job 99% of the time while not doing anything much about someone who does 100% bad by their games or just makes mediocre games.

That is an inconsistency.

Again, irrelevant. I don't attempt to correct things that I don't see myself realistically being able to fix.

The handle on my door broke last week, so I tried to fix it. Should I also be trying to find a solution to global warming, since I tried the same for my door handle?

Now the reason why this is not that apparrant to you is all of a sudden you start thinking of cases like undergrads vs. HS. Why doesn't this analogy work? It doesn't work because the undergrad and HS student deals with different things. The undergrad might produce a work to be published at a conference. If there is an error in that work, lots of bad things can happen. REAL bad things. HS student merely produces stuff to be read by the teacher and then corrected. 

See above. I expect a certain quality from Bioware and the Mass Effect series. Other game companies are more of an unknown. If Bioware's ending is so terrible that it removes any enjoyment from the entire trilogy, the repercussions are greater than a game whose only crime is that I don't enjoy  on its own (say Borderlands). The repercussions of disliking Borderlands is that I disliked a series which I had no previous investment in.

The two scenarios you are describing are not equivalent. I don't typically complain about things which I don't have a significant level of investment in. It's why I complain about ME3's ending and not that $1.50 pack of gum that I did not enjoy.

[Tequila Man]

HenchxNarf wrote...

danistrad wrote...

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

So because he's stating how he feels, he's a troll?

Gotcha.

I really can't express the irony of this given the OP's thread history.

Honestly, Narf, it's to the point I'd rather us make a new thread to distance ourselves.

[Empiro3]

Torrible wrote...

It is not a good community by any means.

While it is not the majority, many people are outright slamming the game with facetious comments like "worse game in the galaxy". People are writing their comedic versions of the ending and laughing at writers. Memes like Marauder Shields are thrown around to mock the ending. While not as bad as insults or death threats, it is more disheartening to the devs as it has been very commonplace. And I bet many of you will be saying "they gave us a bad ending, they deserve it." No, they don't.

Humor helps with the pain and disappointment. I think there's nothing wrong with hyperbole, humor, and satire.

Insulting or threatening an individual is definitely NOT OK.

Modifié par Empiro3, 22 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[HenchxNarf]

Tequila Man wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

danistrad wrote...

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

So because he's stating how he feels, he's a troll?

Gotcha.

I really can't express the irony of this given the OP's thread history.

Honestly, Narf, it's to the point I'd rather us make a new thread to distance ourselves.

Regardless of their post history. They can make a post that isn't trolling.

[KingKhan03]

HenchxNarf wrote...

danistrad wrote...

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

So because he's stating how he feels, he's a troll?

Gotcha.

BUT that's what you've done with the retake folks telling them they are wrong.

[iamthedave3]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

rockman0 wrote...

Correction. Some of the community has been terrible. Regardless of popular belief, one bad apple does not spoil the whole tree.

It most certainly can.

Care to develop on this ? 

There are enough people that act this way that it does make the whole movement look bad. And people keep proving that no one can have a positive outlook on the boards. Every pro-game/pro-ending thread gets bogged down by trolls and people saying they're "dumb" "PR" "Trolls" etc.

It doesn't help that about half of those pro ending threads open with direct insults to those who aren't pro ending.

Call a spade a spade: the community has ripped itself apart over this, and throwing criticism at one side is hypocritical at best.

[pavi132]

Torrible wrote...

It is not a good community by any means.

While it is not the majority, many people are outright slamming the game with facetious comments like "worst game in the galaxy". People are writing their comedic versions of the ending and laughing at the writers. Memes like Marauder Shields are being thrown around to mock the ending. While not as bad as insults or death threats, it is more disheartening to the devs as it has been very commonplace. And I bet many of you will be saying "they gave us a bad ending, they deserve it."

No, they don't.

They actually liked the Marauder Shields meme from what I saw. And it isn't many people outright slamming the game, it's very few. Comedic versions of the ending don't seem that bad to me either... I don't think any of those are really bad at all, honestly.

[Tequila Man]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Tequila Man wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

danistrad wrote...

It just looks like the OP is trying to get people angry. Don't feed the trolls.

So because he's stating how he feels, he's a troll?

Gotcha.

I really can't express the irony of this given the OP's thread history.

Honestly, Narf, it's to the point I'd rather us make a new thread to distance ourselves.

Regardless of their post history. They can make a post that isn't trolling.

True enough, I suppose.

[trembli0s]

Torrible wrote...

It is not a good community by any means.

While it is not the majority, many people are outright slamming the game with facetious comments like "worst game in the galaxy". People are writing their comedic versions of the ending and laughing at the writers. Memes like Marauder Shields are being thrown around to mock the ending. While not as bad as insults or death threats, it is more disheartening to the devs as it has been very commonplace. And I bet many of you will be saying "they gave us a bad ending, they deserve it."

No, they don't.

Uhhh, welcome to the internet.

This kind of behavior has been commonplace for upwards of a decade now? 

[Byrdman]

Unfortunately, any movement which is not organized from the beginning and lacks central leadership suffers from not being able to control the actions of its members. This is equally concerning when membership in a group/movement is based on one just claiming they are a part of it, and not say a registered member. While my signature makes it obvious I'm of the ending hating flavor, I have a few points about this whole debacle (both sides).

1. A couple of bad apples make everyone look bad. This applies to both sides. Some Re-Takers are really pushing the limits of even trolling, and are making the movement look awful. This is partially because there's no way to keep them in line or control what they say, since this isn't something you join by applying. One of Re-take (and other ... occupying..... ) movements strengths is anyone can say they're apart of it and voice their opinion. Its also one of its weaknesses. Personal attacks against the mods and Bioware staff need to stop. We wont get anywhere with it. I don't mean to let up on the pressure, but telling them to kill themselves is not ok. Disparaging remarks wont get them or anyone else on our side. We have to say civil and respectful. I know its hard, emotions are running high, and we've got everyone from forum trolls to IGN reviewers I've never heard of or cared about calling us out, trying to get us to lose our cool, and if we give them what they want we'll crash and burn. Don't be the guy/gal that stands up in the middle of a peaceful sit in and throws the Molotov cocktail.

However, this doesn't mean this is only one sided. In every thread I read, the pro-ending folks have about the same ratio of of crazy, hateful speech spewing people as well. Both sides have personal attacks, condescension, and a lack of civility. This isn't a one way street, and both sides need to chill the frak out with respect to each other. I partially think its just trolls on both sides, but I'm not so optimistic. I get it, you guys like the ending. We don't. You can keep your ending, please let us have ours. I promise we can have ice cream later (I wont, cause I'm lactose intolerant, but I'll let you enjoy yours).

2. The current press releases that have been fed to us over the last couple of days tend to come off with a bit of condescension. Now granted I think its just because its PR speak and they have to cover themselves, and constantly reminding us that the game got all the perfect reviews during each one makes it seem as though they're not really intended for the fans, but more the press watching, which makes it feel as though we ultimately aren't important. You have to remember Bioware, we were your "best friends" 16 days ago, and I want nothing more to once again have a friend in you. I'd love to reup my SWTOR subscription and buy tons of DLC (not ending changing dlc, that imo should be free) for ME3 and the ones I missed for ME2 and play through them. I'd even go back to looking forward to DA3 again. But each time I'm told that I'm part of a vocal minority and you got a bunch of perfect scores it seems belittling. Please don't do that, I want to like you and give you all my video game money again (I'm not being sarcastic here, I even told friends to join SWTOR because it was your game, and you could always be trusted). I get that you need to be upbeat about your game because, well, you have to sell it and make money. But your strongest allies ever are us. We're your core. We pre-ordered your games, stayed up late on a work night (I had to get up at 4am the next day for work, still managed to play 3 hours of ME3 after the midnight release).

3. Hold the line. With the current press release, a lot of threads have been saying that "Well, we won." We haven't, but we are putting cracks in the wall. Each new statement is a little more ground gained, but until we have a statement with a timeline, actual information about a plan, or some other concrete news, we can't ease up. Pressure isn't the same as assault. We have to keep it civil and push for what we want. If we can just keep it civil, they wont be able to ignore us. Our call to action is Hold the Line, because we can't falter, we can't back down, we can't be dishonorable.

Thats just my thoughts.