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This community has been terrible


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#301
Emberwake

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Justin2k wrote...

Hate reading comments like "this community has been fantastic" and "yay we retook mass effect".

I didn't like the ending at all.  I didn't like the auto-dialogue.  I didn't like the multiplayer maps ruining the sidequests and i didn't like the new gay characters taking up more screen time than Ashley.

But I have never come on here and reduced Bioware staff to the point where they are visibly upset and refusing to come on the forums.  I have never tried to insist it is right for Bioware to give money to charity (which i'm sure they do).  I have never sworn at people who are just doing a job.

The crazy thing is, ME3 is a great game.  And you so called "fans" enjoyed 99.9% of 3 whole games.  It's just a video game, there are more important things in life.  What you've done to Jessica Merizan is wrong and you cannot call yourself a great community.  You are nothing more than trolls and spoilt gamers.  It's disgusting some of what you people have said to people who are bending over backwards to appease you and who in the end owe you absolutely nothing.  Get over it.


I don't know which forum you've been reading, but 99% of all the ending protesters I've seen have been civil, if a little upset. They're not afraid to make their points and make themselves heard, but for all the accusations of ad hominem attacks and death threats and the like, I've seen absolutely zero actual threats and very very few names being called.

If you want to see a toxic community, go read the WoW forums. Or League of Legends if you're really brave.

Hold the line.

Modifié par Lochias WH, 22 mars 2012 - 02:24 .


#302
SupR G

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So the community that organized and raised almost $75,000 for a children's charity is "terrible"?, and because of the poor actions of a select few, who do not represent the BSN community's overall attitude or intention, we are now all suddenly "trolls and spoilt gamers"? Honestly, I have no respect for you OP, or your brash opinion of all of us. And honestly you're just a hypocrite. You take the time to come on the forums, insult the entire community as a whole, act like you're above us and yet we're all losers who can't find something better to do? Right, well I have some words for you this forum won't allow. So I'll just leave it there.

Modifié par SupR G, 22 mars 2012 - 02:24 .


#303
ShepnTali

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SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

 
Pretty tacky to smear an entire group wiith that horrible event, regardless of your views.

#304
TheTrueObelus

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Anyone who makes a deaththreat or something like it against a EA/Bioware employee should be banned. This is coming from someone who hated the ending.

Behavior of that kind should not be tolerated.

#305
stwu

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I thoroughly support the Retake movement and I can honestly say I have never ever seen anyone threaten the developers. It's unfortunate that Jessica felt threatened but it was a mistake. And as for Mrs.Helper she said some pretty stupid stuff herself. I don't condone bullying or threating in any form. I also don't mind a little Bioware bashing, they deserve it.

#306
Ecto-Plasmic Effect

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Why would anyone threaten Jessica? That just sounds crazy.

#307
mrderp27

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Torrible wrote...

It is not a good community by any means.

While it is not the majority, many people are outright slamming the game with facetious comments like "worst game in the galaxy". People are writing their comedic versions of the ending and laughing at the writers. Memes like Marauder Shields are being thrown around to mock the ending. While not as bad as insults or death threats, it is more disheartening to the devs as it has been very commonplace. And I bet many of you will be saying "they gave us a bad ending, they deserve it."

No, they don't.

al yankovic is going straight to hell for his parodies

#308
chris fenton

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I have nothing to do with the children donation things, but isn't the important thing that they're getting help?

#309
Doppelgaenger

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Justin2k wrote...

Hate reading comments like "this community has been fantastic" and "yay we retook mass effect".

I didn't like the ending at all.  I didn't like the auto-dialogue.  I didn't like the multiplayer maps ruining the sidequests and i didn't like the new gay characters taking up more screen time than Ashley.

But I have never come on here and reduced Bioware staff to the point where they are visibly upset and refusing to come on the forums.  I have never tried to insist it is right for Bioware to give money to charity (which i'm sure they do).  I have never sworn at people who are just doing a job.

The crazy thing is, ME3 is a great game.  And you so called "fans" enjoyed 99.9% of 3 whole games.  It's just a video game, there are more important things in life.  What you've done to Jessica Merizan is wrong and you cannot call yourself a great community.  You are nothing more than trolls and spoilt gamers.  It's disgusting some of what you people have said to people who are bending over backwards to appease you and who in the end owe you absolutely nothing.  Get over it.


Any insults and threats toward the staff are inexcusable. However, I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of other people, because they do not represent me in any way shape or form. This is very emotional for many but that does not mean that we should simply accept what we are presented with. We have the right to voice our opinions and I will continue to do so.

Besides: trying to make me feel guilty is also inexcusable and a dirty tactic.

#310
Divitiacus

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Are you an American? If so, using your own logic, you're terrible. Why? I have heard it said that there have been Americans who are murderers. This country has been awful! There have been members of the United States that have killed other human beings!

(Illustrative example, I in fact love my country.)

#311
DemGeth

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Byrdman wrote...

Unfortunately, any movement which is not organized from the beginning and lacks central leadership suffers from not being able to control the actions of its members. This is equally concerning when membership in a group/movement is based on one just claiming they are a part of it, and not say a registered member. While my signature makes it obvious I'm of the ending hating flavor, I have a few points about this whole debacle (both sides).

1. A couple of bad apples make everyone look bad. This applies to both sides. Some Re-Takers are really pushing the limits of even trolling, and are making the movement look awful. This is partially because there's no way to keep them in line or control what they say, since this isn't something you join by applying. One of Re-take (and other ... occupying..... ) movements strengths is anyone can say they're apart of it and voice their opinion. Its also one of its weaknesses. Personal attacks against the mods and Bioware staff need to stop. We wont get anywhere with it. I don't mean to let up on the pressure, but telling them to kill themselves is not ok. Disparaging remarks wont get them or anyone else on our side. We have to say civil and respectful. I know its hard, emotions are running high, and we've got everyone from forum trolls to IGN reviewers I've never heard of or cared about calling us out, trying to get us to lose our cool, and if we give them what they want we'll crash and burn. Don't be the guy/gal that stands up in the middle of a peaceful sit in and throws the Molotov cocktail.

However, this doesn't mean this is only one sided. In every thread I read, the pro-ending folks have about the same ratio of of crazy, hateful speech spewing people as well. Both sides have personal attacks, condescension, and a lack of civility. This isn't a one way street, and both sides need to chill the frak out with respect to each other. I partially think its just trolls on both sides, but I'm not so optimistic. I get it, you guys like the ending. We don't. You can keep your ending, please let us have ours. I promise we can have ice cream later (I wont, cause I'm lactose intolerant, but I'll let you enjoy yours).

2. The current press releases that have been fed to us over the last couple of days tend to come off with a bit of condescension. Now granted I think its just because its PR speak and they have to cover themselves, and constantly reminding us that the game got all the perfect reviews during each one makes it seem as though they're not really intended for the fans, but more the press watching, which makes it feel as though we ultimately aren't important. You have to remember Bioware, we were your "best friends" 16 days ago, and I want nothing more to once again have a friend in you. I'd love to reup my SWTOR subscription and buy tons of DLC (not ending changing dlc, that imo should be free) for ME3 and the ones I missed for ME2 and play through them. I'd even go back to looking forward to DA3 again. But each time I'm told that I'm part of a vocal minority and you got a bunch of perfect scores it seems belittling. Please don't do that, I want to like you and give you all my video game money again (I'm not being sarcastic here, I even told friends to join SWTOR because it was your game, and you could always be trusted). I get that you need to be upbeat about your game because, well, you have to sell it and make money. But your strongest allies ever are us. We're your core. We pre-ordered your games, stayed up late on a work night (I had to get up at 4am the next day for work, still managed to play 3 hours of ME3 after the midnight release).

3. Hold the line. With the current press release, a lot of threads have been saying that "Well, we won." We haven't, but we are putting cracks in the wall. Each new statement is a little more ground gained, but until we have a statement with a timeline, actual information about a plan, or some other concrete news, we can't ease up. Pressure isn't the same as assault. We have to keep it civil and push for what we want. If we can just keep it civil, they wont be able to ignore us. Our call to action is Hold the Line, because we can't falter, we can't back down, we can't be dishonorable.

Thats just my thoughts.


Actually I suggested several times that re-takers mobilize outside of Bio forums.  that'd be an enviornemnt you could control.  Than you could employ a directed, impactful message.

Ofcourse that got turned into you want us to leave blah blah.  

#312
Justin2k

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I made this topic in direct response to "This community has been amazing".

I'm sorry if you haven't made death threats to Jessica and Jennifer but members of the community have. Therefore the community hasn't been amazing.

Bragging about raising money for charity which you only raised for the purpose of bragging about changes nothing. None of you truly care about sick children enough to go out and help, you just want your ending changed.

The community isn't fantastic, and some of your behaviour has been disgusting. Even the best of you are acting like spoilt brats.

#313
DemonSlayer_1

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Someone threatened her with a "shepard ending" (death) and a bunch of people forced her off the forums and she won't speak on twitter about bioware/mass effect anymore.

All because she was up at 3am in her own time trying to help people.


That is just horrible, I was watching jessica's twitter feed that night and she took the time to answer two of the questions I was waiting for bioware to answer. Her answers is what made me accept the ending and enjoy the game again.

She took the time to answer two fans questions that answered all of the questions I wanted answered. I was happy when I saw these types of responses on her twitter.

Why did the normandy go thru a mass relay?
It never did, it was still in the sol system. I see, so it did crash back on earth. and I've also noticed the northwest continent in the stargazer image sure looks like earth which is being viewed from a nearby planet.

Why would sheppard destroy all the relays when it would kill everyone in those star systems.
He didn't, the blast acted differently and was different energy. Its not the same explosion as an asteroid hitting it. SO MY SHEPPARD DIDN'T JUST DESTROY BILLIONS OF PEOPLE. I CAN LIVE WITH THAT!

Modifié par DemonSlayer_1, 22 mars 2012 - 02:29 .


#314
chkchkchk

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I'm just spamming this all over.

TL;DR: This is participatory art. Bioware should have expected this because this is what they tried to cultivate.

chkchkchk wrote...

With an artist-audience relationship so intimate, it's only natural that the audience will be moved strongly. All the anger and passion we're seeing is a direct result of this. The outcry is exactly what Bioware should have foreseen, because it is exactly the kind of passion they set out to cultivate. You cannot draw the audience in so deeply and not expect to get a reaction. Saying "it's just a videogame" is silly. A painting is just a colour on canvas, yet people go to art school and write books about it. It's good to experience, create, and think about art.

The Mass Effect trilogy isn't the private work of a hermit who lived and died without ever showcasing his work. The Mass Effect trilogy is a unique work of participatory art, and in this kind of art the relationship between artist and audience is as intimate as you can get. It is a step below collaboration. Everyone becomes invested in what's created. It's only natural, because it is the whole point.

To say that changing, altering, or expanding on the "current endings" is some kind of affront to "artistic integrity" doesn't hold water. You cannot pull the audience so deeply into something and then expect them to have no emotional investment. That emotional investment was the whole point. It's too late to pretend Mass Effect is the result of a singular vision crafted in isolation. Even within Bioware you cannot claim Person X or Person Y is the visionary behind Mass Effect. And to say that none of these talented people were influenced by the audience is silly. They take careful note of our opinions and playing styles, the same way musicians in jam session or actors in an improv group take cues from each other. (We're a step down from that level of collaboration, but you take my point.)

People are trying to compare this to a reader asking a writer to change her novel, or a gallery-goer demanding a painting be altered. This is nothing like that. Audience participation has been a factor throughout the development of Mass Effect. It's too late to pretend this isn't the case. With intimacy comes responsibility.

BUT! This does not mean anyone "owes" anyone anything, or that we need to be hateful towards each other. The artist is welcome to ignore the audience, but the artist should be prepared to accept the fallout. Art is not safe, especially when this many people are involved. "Authorial intent" is not sacred law, and it certainly has no place in something that asks the audience to identify with and "roleplay" the protagonist over the course of a 100+ hour narrative. The passion here speaks for itself. There is no "wrong" reaction to art.

P.S. There's no use debating "Is this art?" We cannot deny that the process involved is a creative one.
P.P.S. Bioware is hands-down my favourite videogame developer. I'm not "hating". I wouldn't be here if I was.
P.S.P.P.S.S. <3



#315
KingKhan03

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chris fenton wrote...

I have nothing to do with the children donation things, but isn't the important thing that they're getting help?


+1

#316
McScroggz24

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All I will say is generalizations are rarely good, even if partially true or patently false.

#317
Guest_Dark DJ_*

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SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043


I'm actually a little confused about this after reading through a bit of the thread I noticed it says it was created/modified 29 days ago... Is this some kind of error in the forum or what?

#318
KingKhan03

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i don't condone threats and all that garbage but the majority of people have kept it civil so don't try to take down the whole retake community.

#319
HenchxNarf

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Justin2k wrote...

I made this topic in direct response to "This community has been amazing".

I'm sorry if you haven't made death threats to Jessica and Jennifer but members of the community have. Therefore the community hasn't been amazing.

Bragging about raising money for charity which you only raised for the purpose of bragging about changes nothing. None of you truly care about sick children enough to go out and help, you just want your ending changed.

The community isn't fantastic, and some of your behaviour has been disgusting. Even the best of you are acting like spoilt brats.


Again, IA

#320
CronoDragoon

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Both sides have roughly the same ratio of morons. It's just that the retake movement has much larger numbers, so there appear to be a lot more.

It's the same reason you see a crapload of well-thought out essays on why the ending was bad, but very few on why it was good. If anyone thinks their side is inherently better than the other.... well I would say no to that.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 22 mars 2012 - 02:27 .


#321
Coolfaec

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Justin2k wrote...

I made this topic in direct response to "This community has been amazing".

I'm sorry if you haven't made death threats to Jessica and Jennifer but members of the community have. Therefore the community hasn't been amazing.

Bragging about raising money for charity which you only raised for the purpose of bragging about changes nothing. None of you truly care about sick children enough to go out and help, you just want your ending changed.

The community isn't fantastic, and some of your behaviour has been disgusting. Even the best of you are acting like spoilt brats.


Why did you even bother posting this? All you did was reaffirm what you already said, and proved to everyone that you really are an arrogant, biased, bitter person. I'm done reasoning with you, troll harder.

#322
Nonoru

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Justin2k wrote...

I made this topic in direct response to "This community has been amazing".

I'm sorry if you haven't made death threats to Jessica and Jennifer but members of the community have. Therefore the community hasn't been amazing.

Bragging about raising money for charity which you only raised for the purpose of bragging about changes nothing. None of you truly care about sick children enough to go out and help, you just want your ending changed.

The community isn't fantastic, and some of your behaviour has been disgusting. Even the best of you are acting like spoilt brats.


You should really stop using gross generalizations and random assumptions.

#323
DemGeth

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Dark DJ wrote...

SKRemaks wrote...

BioWare doesn't owe you jack.

And you people are making a disgusting habit of death threats.

Or, have you all forgotten what happened to Jennifer?

http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043


I'm actually a little confused about this after reading through a bit of the thread I noticed it says it was created/modified 29 days ago... Is this some kind of error in the forum or what?


That was something else, bionerds decided it was one minor writers fault for everything in the world and were...well disgusting tbh.  

#324
Legendaryred

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Fail troll 0/10. Try harder next time.

#325
Tequila Man

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I don't care, personally, about anyone in any charity I give to. Currently, I'm sitting at thirteen, bout half on Kickstarter.

Does that make my money dirty, somehow? Must I feel connected and care for individuals in the charity?