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People call this a victory i call this the end of creative freedom

Débuté par eye basher , mars 22 2012 01:57

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#76
VAIOMANIAC
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:10

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB


Well what I think is going to happen instead of actually changing anything, they will expand on the endings allready in the game keeping the endings but expanding them instead.

Remember you allready have the disk they can`t go into your disk and remove the ending allready there you realise that right.

Remember mass effect 2 was not properly concluded until the arrival dlc which set up me3 and that did not destroy the endings allready in the game.

This is excatly like the fallout 3 ending controversy and Bethesda is still a well regarded company that makes great games.

#77
Adam Walsh
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:10

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I don't call it that. I call it a step in the direction of preventing sloppy endings. They may have been happy with the ending they made and to be honest I really hope they were but the fact remains is that gaming is different to movies. You pay a small amount to watch a movie in the cinema if you don't like it you don't buy it. With a game the closest thing to that is renting but when you already own the first two installments are you going to rent it first?

The people who made the Retake movement did so because they were passionate about a trilogy which has been 8 years (Devs) or 5 years (Fans) in the making. They felt Shepard and the crew of the Normandy didn't get the ending they deserved. They asked for a new ending that works parallel to the ones we have and closure for the existing ones. People against changing the endings have valid points aswell if you were happy with it that's good for you but if Bioware have decided to give another ending to keep other fans happy good on them. I think asking for it to be free is stupid it won't happen, but so what?

Bioware have taken a step towards fixing relations between them and passionate fans and good on them.

#78
froggeh2
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:11

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB

Right because the end of mass effect 3 is original...

#79
mcordonc
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:11

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Calling something "art" does not immediately shield it from sucking. Is it wrong for consumers to challenge a company to make something better? In what way does that limit originality? The suggestions we gave on how to change the ending are merely that. Suggestions. Whether or not they go completely by our demands is up to them, but right now they have the chance to improve the ending which sucked. And it did suck. Period.

Whether or not you enjoyed it is up to you.

#80
Reiella
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:11

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB


Wait till you see what solution it is before getting disappointed in their 'cowing' to public opinion.

#81
Versus Omnibus
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:12

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This "fear" only works when gamers dictate what kind of games developers should make, which publishers like EA have been doing for years. Bioware wanted us to provide feedback, and we did. If the rest of the industry doesn't like the idea that some don't like the ending like they did, then that's their problem.

#82
Wrathra
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:12

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The problem with the endings is that they completely took player choice away and did not deliver what the developers promised. ME is a series built on choice, you don't do that and then suddenly decide that artistic merit is more important by taking away player choice at the most important moment in the series. That is where the endings failed, ultimately.

They can be as artistic as they want, but don't promise one thing and deliver something completely different.

#83
UnbornLeviathan
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:12

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB


Be original.

Just make sure you deliver what you promise when you do interviews and advertisements.

#84
Eyeshield21
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:12

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB

Actually, you are kinda wrong. Bungie and Valve make games they want to play, and while they(Bungie) want the best for their fans, they didn't want to work on Halo anymore. They went off and starting working on new ideas. Valve, well, just look at steam(and their other products). Heck, TF2 is free, lot of their games are either free or low priced, and it works for them. Besides, when was the last Valve game that wasn't amazing and unoriginal(some maybe were influenced, but the main core of the ideas)? The new and original ideas will keep coming(can be from anyone), no matter what.
Edit: in the case of bioware, its still up in the air.

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 22 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

#85
Aulis Vaara
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:13

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB


Or rather than trying to make "artsy" nonsensical endings, they'll make consequential endings that actually fit with the rest of the story. It's just how you choose to look at it.

#86
Silpheed58
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:14

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ding ding ding we havve a winna sir!

ZodiEmish wrote...

If they want creative freedom then they need to release games for free.

BUT as long as they are charging for a product, and expect us to buy DLC for that product. then they need to listen to their customers because we are the ones who buy their products.

This is simple basics of the free market. We are the consumer. They are the producer. They make a product, and we buy it. If were not happy with a product then we can take our money some place else, or demand they fix the problem before we go some place else. If there is enough of us who are not happy with a product then the business can change the product to make it better, or fix the product, and in turn they will make more money. If they don't listen to a large group of consumers. We end up move onto other games, and they lose money.

One more thing. We are an important part of the consumer base. because most consumer when not happy with a product just moves on. But the consumer who will give them a second chance to fix a product. Are also the consumers who buy all of their products. who supports them, and normally stay loyal. If we were not loyal. then we would not be here fighting to get the ending fixed. We just would not care about it if we were not loyal.

It is really just a simple part of how the free market works. If they are worried about art. then release for free then, but as long as it is a product. We have a right to complain about it.


#87
TheTrueObelus
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:14

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1. Mass Effect is not original. The themes in Mass Effect mirror almost exactly those in Star Trek - friendship, optimism, cooperation, tolerance, embracing diversity, overcoming bigotry, and striving for a brighter future. Shepard is Captain Kirk. How many times has he appealed to other characters consciences to find victory? Too many to mention.

2. 99% of the game is excellent. All fans are asking for is an ending that reflects what came before. The current ending does not do that.

3. Bioware has total artistic freedom. They have the total freedom to go broke when fans stop buying their games. They are selling a product. A great product. A work of art. But without the fans buying their work there is no Mass Effect.

4. The end was artistically indefensible.

Modifié par TheTrueObelus, 22 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

#88
gadenp
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:14

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Creative Freedom is a bull concept. And does not sell art. Art that does not sell, does not become famous. Near all great works, are part creative visions, part author working to engage and immerse consumers.

#89
Teshayel
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:14

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Maria Caliban wrote...

If creative freedom survived Joseph Stalin, I think it can survive people unhappy with the ME 3 endings.


I second that :)

On a different note, video games are a form of art, no doubt about that. And, like with any other kind of art (whether movies, paintings, or sculpture) the artist is faced with this question: is money the most important thing for me?

If no, then there is no need to compromise. The artist can bring his/her own vision to life, and not have to be concerned with how it will be received by others (whether critics or potential buyers).

If the answer is yes, then the artist must keep his target customers in mind. He/she might still be able to express an original idea, just tweaked in such a way that it will look pleasing to their target audience.

#90
MongoNYC
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:15

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If Mass Effect 2 can have an ending that ranges from everyone dying to everyone surviving, Mass Effect 3 can do the same. It's not rocket science.

#91
sistersafetypin
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:15

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elitesalt wrote...

THE SKY IS FALLING

how dare bioware have the audacity to give their consumers what they want


This. It's amazing how many alarmist are coming out of the woodwork

#92
Arokel
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:16

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Their is a line when it comes to gamer involvement with development. We have not even come close to crossing it in this.

#93
Athlonis1
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:16

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Artistic creativity is fine, but not when it is an ending that goes against your entire narrative that you have been making for 5 years. Art is meant to elicit feelings. Honestly, I felt a whole range of emotions while playing ME3 that I have never felt while playing a videogame. It was all building up to the ending and then....


Nothing. I felt nothing at the ending.
Art that fails to elicit emotions is simply not good art.

#94
SandTrout
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:17

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Um, yeah, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Charles Dickens, and Bethesda would like a word with you regarding your knowledge of history...

#95
Vromrig
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:17

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SandTrout wrote...

Um, yeah, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Charles Dickens, and Bethesda would like a word with you regarding your knowledge of history...


So would Valve.

#96
GBJ13
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:17

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MongoNYC wrote...

If Mass Effect 2 can have an ending that ranges from everyone dying to everyone surviving, Mass Effect 3 can do the same. It's not rocket science.


Actually, they could have even more variety because Mass Effect 3 was the end.  Mass Effect 2 still needed to set-up Mass Effect 3. There are no restrictions on the possible endings.

#97
tomcplotts
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:18

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this whole "art" argument is just garbage. it's taken them three weeks of consultants to figure out exactly where they were going to defend their product, and this is all they've got? That in itself is a very red flag.

Imagine the game ending with a freeze frame of a peanut balancing on the tip of a banana. How do you feel then? Hey, it's art say the abstractionists.

It's an even harder argument to swallow given the fact that the final scene is taken from a stock image on the internet. That's not very persuasive evidence that art was foremost on the dev teams minds here.

Bottom line is that the marketing mechanisms failed Bioware. They overreached, confident that they could "train" their consumers one more time. And clearly they have trained many. But even more have resisted, and I think they were caught off guard. Such is the arrogant confidence of the sales class and their scientific theories of mind laundering. Yeah, they usually work, but occasionally they don't. And when they don't, the exlosion--like that of the relays--can be spectacular.

I can't believe this defense is gaining any traction whatsoever. It's quite possibly the lamest defense of shoddy business practices I've ever seen.

#98
Deviant Seraph
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:18

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No longer will companies be allowed to slap together another game's ending onto their game and call it their own. Sad news indeed.

Go play Deus Ex: HR and dare to praise ME3's end as "original".
At least Adam had a choice to not choose any of the 3 exact choices ME3 had.

Modifié par Deviant Seraph, 22 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

#99
StarGateGod
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:18

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eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.Image IPB

i say this is a good thing no longer will companies be able to pass off sub par products and expect rave reviews. this was a first we stood up and said no demanded a  new ending will we get it, well that remains to be seen, but what ever happens game companies now know that releasing a great game with a horrible ending(my opinion) will have consequences.
I support bioware in this choice

#100
Melancholic
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:19

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They're expanding the endings. Maybe. If even that. Hopefully they will also add completely new endings.

Either way, they're not removing the existing endings.

This means you can still have your "creative" ending, I can have my "unoriginal" ending, and we can both be happy.

Doesn't that sound wonderful?
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