167 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecto-Plasmic Effect]

Coolfaec wrote...

The same thing happened with Fallout 3, and I loved the ending in the first place.

Huh? I thought they changed it because you weren't able to play after you beat the game.

[Vhalkyrie]

I supposed I'd revise my statement and say successful execution of deus ex machina is when it makes the ending more palatable. The opposite effect is achieved in ME:3. Remove the starchild sequence completely, and the same questions about the ending remain.

Also, crucible is not the deus ex machina. We are told what the purpose is. The deus ex machina is the starchild.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 22 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[nevar00]

Zix13 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Sorry, but deus ex machina is the opposite of creative.

Poor argument, the deus ex machina was on mars when the crucible was revealed. There was no way to avoid one in this game.

Yeah but that one was acceptable to an extant, as they sort of wrote themselves into a corner: it was pretty much either nerf the Reapers or deus ex machina tiem!

Still then they went full out and created that massive dem at the end.  That one is... basically a textbook example.

[mumwaldee369]

Maria Caliban wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Sorry, but deus ex machina is the opposite of creative.

Then you don't see ET or the Wizard of OZ as creative works?

In the book, the slippers were silver.

I read all the OZ books, but it was so long ago that I've forgotten a great deal of it. Including that.

It's a parable about using gold and silver coinage. 

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

 Right OP, that's why everyone hated Bioshock I and no one bought it.

[Tony208]

And I call this a slippery slope.

[Alamar2078]

eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.

@OP:  I believe you have it all wrong.  Bioware did this to themselves when they started making statements about what the game would be like.  With each statement they [morally & ethically] limited the number of valid ways they could handle the game so they limited their own creative freedom.

IMHO BW didn't deliver on their promises and expectations they deliberately built up.   The only thing this "victory" is [if it is a victory] is just getting BW to live up to their promises / statements / etc. prelaunch.

[NeecHMonkeY]

Many artists relish the idea of going back and correcting their work, fixing things they and others disliked - Just ask George Lucas, Steven Spieberg, James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Ralph McQuarrie, Orson Welles, etc.

There's always a chance that going back to change something will make it worse but then on the flip side you have the Aliens and Blade Runner Director's cuts.

I'm impressed that Bioware have decided to take the criticism and look at ways on how to improve the overall Mass Effect 3 experience. It's a ballsy move that most develoeprs wouldn't even think about doing.

Wouldn't it be great if the developers of any game that received a negative or not so positive review went back and reworked their game to make it better? Most of the time, we have to wait for a sequel before they do that...

Modifié par NeecHMonkeY, 22 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[Zardoc]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

[Billabong2011]

As an artist myself, you'd think I'd be more in support of that so-called 'creative freedom,' but the endings were so insulting and completely invalidating of every other experience had in the Mass Effect Universe that I demand new endings solely to MAINTAIN the creative freedom demonstrated in 99% of the rest of the series. Go figure.

[DarthSyphilis59]

eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.

Oh no! A corporation that is listens to its consumer base? This is a dangerous precedent! I just wish that all these people who have spent hard earned money on a product would not openly voice their disappointment for it, because if businesses were to act on negative feedback, their might be unimaginable consequences such as.........getting better quality for a product they paid for!!!! Its just dangerous!!!!

[OblivionDawn]

Oh boy, this thread again.

[Tom Jolly]

 I worry about the same thing.   Let's just HOPE that any DLC ending changes don' rewrite the whole thing.  It would be good to seem them add more to show their orginal intent with the endings.

[LeonRoughan]

Couldn't agree with the OP more. It was always going to be too original to create 16 different endings, best to be safe with the "max 3" strategy that they went with.

joking aside, people are actually saying that offering OPTIONAL DLC to people who want it is the end of creativity? wouldn't it creatively challenge Bioware to pull off something like this? I'm curious, why do people who like the endings feel they will be affected?

[Rohirrim]

A victory implies having an opponent. I've never seen Bioware as such. We fans and the developers are very much on the same side in that we love the game. We just have different opinions on the ending.
The company makes fantastic games, and I feel appreciated by them taking my feedback and reacting to it.

[DadeLeviathan]

Creative freedom is one thing, but you have to remember that games are an interactive medium. The players are just as much of the experience as those creating the game. To deny one is to deny both. Video games are not simply a medium that is experienced third-hand, such as a movie or book. It is experienced first hand, even in the games where "you" are not the protagonist. As such, games have a responsibility to give those players a good experience. This means the whole experience, the endings included. 

At the end of the day, Bioware still has what you're calling creative freedom. They can tell the fans to go away and refuse to do anything to appease them. But this is a horrible business practice. The majority of those vocalizing their displeasure are part of Bioware's base fans. These are the fans that get the word out about the product, they are the ones who sing Bioware's praises to anyone who will listen. Alienating them is the business equivilant of not just shooting yourself in the foot - it is the equivilant of chopping said foot off, lighting it on fire and then shooting it into the sun with a rocket. 

Even if this were not the case, creativity in terms of games still includes the player. Plus let's not forget the fact that the Mass Effect ending is just bad writing. Whether people enjoy it or not isn't very relevant in that area. Twilight is enjoyed by millions of people, but every single professional writer, literature teacher and literature scholar can tell you that it's writing quality is sub-par at best. 

So in a medium where the audience has a direct hand in the 'art,' doesn't creative freedom include making sure that audience has a good experience? And in an art form where the audience plays a direct roll, don't they have the right to demand that their entire experience is as good as the rest? I firmly beleive so.

Modifié par DadeLeviathan, 22 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[Reign762]

Creative Freedom is copying Deus Ex: and incorporating terrible writing and last second plot development that makes no sense?

Much of the movement was getting what Mass Effect was always about - Choice. Choice mattering. When the developers made public statements to the player base they created an expectation. It was a reasonable expectation and was not delivered upon. In fact it was the entire opposite of what was said and/or promised which left the player stunned and bewildered at what was going on.

This was about keeping the developers to their word and delivering on the promises and statements made by them. The PR spin is to make it affront against "Art" and "Creative Freedom" which it does not infringe upon in anyway.

Modifié par Reign762, 22 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[darthnick427]

As long as they make good endings instead of our current crap they can make whatever they want

[Tyrzun]

The funny thing is "Bioware" is being treated like an artist, like one person. Which is totally illogical.

FYI OP Mass Effects creative freedom was ALREADY taken away by Bioware. The CREATOR of the Mass Effect universe is Drew Karpysyn. HE was moved off of the project by BIOWARE after ME 2. They took away his ART from HIM! So, if you REALLY cared about artistic freedom you would be angry with Bioware and defending Drew!

So, which is it? Defend artistic freedom or not?

[Lmaoboat]

I don't think anyone would be complaining if they put a leash on George Lucas when he made the prequels.

[Tovanus]

eye basher wrote...

No longer will game companys try to be original when there always scared of the haters.Good bye originality hello generic gaming where all games start the same and end the same unoriginal and uninspired it's cater to the hater time.

More like, "No longer will game companies risk putting out an ending that was scribbled down on scrap paper after three minutes of light thinking for a series that spanned five years and over a hundred hours of playtime."

I can only hope.

[Tritium315]

A game that is just one cutscene of a giant turd in the sun would be original too, doesn't mean it should be made. The ending's bad and should be changed/never should have been made. Movies do test-screenings all the time to catch **** like this that the public will hate and I'm pretty sure there's still originality in cinema.

[JasonDaPsycho]

They're just owning up to their mistakes in marketing strategies. They shouldn't have made promises they couldn't keep.

[Fail_Inc]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If creative freedom survived Joseph Stalin, I think it can survive people unhappy with the ME 3 endings.

boom goes the dynamite

[Billabong2011]

darthnick427 wrote...

As long as they make good endings instead of our current crap they can make whatever they want

Ahh, nick, you've finally seen our side of things? 
I know you didn't like the Normandy bit before, but I thought you were 'ok' with the red, blue, green ending thing?