239 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I can fully understand why one might not be completly satisfied with the endings.  I count myself amongst those that where content with them for the most part.

What I cannot understand and find frustrating is the sheer hysteria and outrage expressed on these boards towards the endings.  I can understand claiming you were mislead by the idea of every choice allowing you to construct your ending.  Some of you might have been dissapointed that it translated into the war asset system, but I hardly think claiming bioware knowingly attempted to outright decieve you is merited.  Consider also that the level of control you had in the ending of Mass Effect 3 was greater than the previous two games.  In Mass Effect we had a single choice between two alternatives, saving or killing the council.  In Mass Effect 2 we had a similar choice between destroying or saving the Collector Base.  In Mass Effect 3 we had three choices, really, this is a repeat of what Bioware has been doing all along.  If choice was your complaint you should have brought it up in Mass Effect.

Others complain about the tragic nature of the endings.  Really, I would have been more dissapointed by the presence of a happy rainbows and sunshine ending.  A magic button that annihilated the Reapers and nothing else would have rendered the Crucible an even worse Deus Ex Machina then it already is.  It is the inevitable nature of each ending that makes them work as tragedy and reinforces the idea that the Reapers can't be defeated without sacrifice, which Shepard isn't immune to.  A "Happy" ending renders them simple mistakes that could have been avoided.

Some complaints focus on the Normandy's portion of the ending.  Admittedly, this is the one portion I wish they had done differently, but I really don't think this scene matters very much.  The point is that your crew is alive and kicking, having survived the Reaper war and now they can help rebuild.

That brings me to my last point, some have focused off the incorrect assertion that the allied fleet is stranded in Sol and that this will lead to a war over resources.  This is simply untrue.  First of all, they still have FTL.  It may take years, decades for the quarians and geth, but all of them can return home.  Their ships will just need expanded fuel reserves and possibly the equipment to refine fuel.  No doubt the quarians can help with that, and the crucible brought with it the galaxy's finest engineers.  There will be no food shortage.  The Reapers focused on population centers, so it stands to reason that most of the Earth's farmland is intact.  The quarians have giant agri-ships for this purpose as well and could probably feed both themselves and the turians given that they left the civilians at home.  The geth don't need food.  The turians would think of something if the quarians aren't there I suppose.  The high casualties of the fleet and the reduced population of the earth actually helps in this regard.  As for raw materials, they have an entire solar system and lots of wreckage to salvage from, they'll be fine.  Actually a scenario I plan on using for a post-ME3 fanfiction is the allied fleet harvesting advanced FTL tech from Reaper corpses (They did cruise in from dark space after all), but that's just a single wild possibility.  The point is that they are far from doomed, it's just going to take them awhile to get home.

Also, the galaxy isn't destroyed.  The energy of the relays was coopted into the benign (Unless you chose destruction) energy wave of the crucible rather than exploding outward and obliterating star systems, hence why the color of the "Explosions" changed with each ending.

I'm just trying to express why the outrage has me flustered.  Offer your two cents at your leisure.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 22 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[Texansamurai]

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

[G3rman]

The choices were fine if not cliche.

My problem is the proper formula of closure in ending a trilogy was not done properly, in fact it was not done at all. Without any kind of explanation as to what happens to this timeline of the ME-verse, we really don't know how our Shepard's arc ends. The epilogue was terrible and made no sense, most of all the Normandy and teleporting teammates.

Give proper epilogue with information of post-game happenings of the characters and the galaxy based on player choice, that is all I ask. Do the proper thing for ending a great trilogy by properly finishing the story.

[Heimdall]

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

I actually thought that was a good stroke.  The relays were part of the Reapers' scheme to control organic development.  By destroying them and the Citadel you force the organic species to break free of the path set forth by the Reapers.

[Texansamurai]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

I actually thought that was a good stroke.  The relays were part of the Reapers' scheme to control organic development.  By destroying them and the Citadel you force the organic species to break free of the path set forth by the Reapers.

Question is, can the organics still have a galactic community without reaper tech? IE Mass Relays or Citadel.

[G3rman]

Texansamurai wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

I actually thought that was a good stroke.  The relays were part of the Reapers' scheme to control organic development.  By destroying them and the Citadel you force the organic species to break free of the path set forth by the Reapers.

Question is, can the organics still have a galactic community without reaper tech? IE Mass Relays or Citadel.

They can develop their own tech, their own fresh start.  The "reaper" tech was just the tech of the original race, but humans or any race can do the same thing.  It will take time, but its not a death wish.

[Heimdall]

G3rman wrote...

The choices were fine if not cliche.

My problem is the proper formula of closure in ending a trilogy was not done properly, in fact it was not done at all. Without any kind of explanation as to what happens to this timeline of the ME-verse, we really don't know how our Shepard's arc ends. The epilogue was terrible and made no sense, most of all the Normandy and teleporting teammates.

Give proper epilogue with information of post-game happenings of the characters and the galaxy based on player choice, that is all I ask. Do the proper thing for ending a great trilogy by properly finishing the story.

Well, I don't think there were any teleporting teamates at least.  Shepard was unconcious several times before reaching the crucible.  The surviving squad could very well have fallen back and gotten a pickup from Joker in one of those time gaps.  Overall the Normandy thing was a bit of a mess though I agree.

It might have benefited from more of an epilogue, though I rather like filling in the blanks with my imagination.  I actually think they might have decided not to do that because they want to make more Mass Effect games in the future, and by future I mean that a few centuries after the Reapers (Possibly when they start creating their own mass relays).  I think they might have wanted to leave the intervening years blank for now in order to come up with a way to make history reach a similar point when they make the next Mass Effect (A blank slate as it were, logistically they can't keep doing this importing choice thing continuously).  That's just my theory.

[Heimdall]

G3rman wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

I actually thought that was a good stroke.  The relays were part of the Reapers' scheme to control organic development.  By destroying them and the Citadel you force the organic species to break free of the path set forth by the Reapers.

Question is, can the organics still have a galactic community without reaper tech? IE Mass Relays or Citadel.

They can develop their own tech, their own fresh start.  The "reaper" tech was just the tech of the original race, but humans or any race can do the same thing.  It will take time, but its not a death wish.

Well, I do think this "new tech" will come down to creating their own Mass Relays eventually.  It would be difficult to make anything Mass Effect without them.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

ME3 isn't really a game by itself, it is the end of the story, so it's ending is the real ending, it changes a lots of things. ME1 could afford an open ending, kinda like a giant teaser. Mass effect 2 end reflected what you did along the game.
ME3 gives three times the same choices: bad, bad, or bad. There shouldn't be a magic button to annihilate reapers. In fact, there shouldn't be a magic button at all. It's supposed to be a story about war.
Forced sacrifice negate the idea of a player choice, it's a bad thing, and it's even worse you cannot agree with the logic behind those choices. And Shepard doesn't have to be a parangon hero willing to sacrifice himself to save the galaxy, as previous games supported that. It would have been okay in a film, not in a game when you decide who's shepard. Shepard should be able to win, not because he's stronger than anything, but because it is a game. And saying it would not be possible to do so without hurting the ME universe is just lack of imagination (even more if one can use Deus Ex Machina and call it official ^^).

[nevar00]

The entire Mass Effect franchise is built on choices and seeing the consequences of said choices.  When it came down to the big ending you should've seen the entire army you spent all game building up fighting alongside you.  It didn't happen.  Then we were supposed to get 16 different endings that should've been based on how well we prepared and the rest of our decisions in all of the games.  That didn't happen either.  

There are a lot of other huge problems that cause everyone to dwell on them (they render all choices pointless and kill replay value, they destroy the themes of the series, etc) but imo that's one of the biggest reasons.

Lord Aesir wrote...
Also, the galaxy isn't destroyed.  The energy of the relays was coopted into the benign (Unless you chose destruction) energy wave of the crucible rather than exploding outward and obliterating star systems, hence why the color of the "Explosions" changed with each ending.

Well whatever it was it caused the Normandy to crash.  And even if that wasn't the case, the whole army and places like Omega still starve to death and everyone else is stuck in a pile of rubble needing aid and left wondering what is going on.


Anyway it's still a great game, I just feel like a lot of the problems could've been fixed with a bit more time.  

Modifié par nevar00, 22 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[Texansamurai]

Well, I do think this "new tech" will come down to creating their own Mass Relays eventually.  It would be difficult to make anything Mass Effect without them.

I think it will most likely take thousands among thousands of years especially for the sol system seeing its most likely the resources to build such a machine might not be abundant, other wise in our world right now we would have such a thing.

So I think earth is screwed in the ME universe. I wouldnt say humans in general seeing humans are on alot of different planets. Possibly even on Palavin or Asari home worlds.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

Really OP, the endings were varied? Come on, you don't need to be a nuclear scientist to figure out how lame they are and how the endings just left more unanswered questions.

The problem with these endings is that Bioware went HOLLYWOOD and dropped everything just like that trying to mimic a big screen movie. But it failed judging on the fans reaction including mine.

[The Executioner]

The ending simply isn't up to standards and is horribly written , bottom line for me is ME3 is a failure. The ending was the most important part of the game and it is pathetic.

[Heimdall]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

ME3 isn't really a game by itself, it is the end of the story, so it's ending is the real ending, it changes a lots of things. ME1 could afford an open ending, kinda like a giant teaser. Mass effect 2 end reflected what you did along the game.
ME3 gives three times the same choices: bad, bad, or bad. There shouldn't be a magic button to annihilate reapers. In fact, there shouldn't be a magic button at all. It's supposed to be a story about war.
Forced sacrifice negate the idea of a player choice, it's a bad thing, and it's even worse you cannot agree with the logic behind those choices. And Shepard doesn't have to be a parangon hero willing to sacrifice himself to save the galaxy, as previous games supported that. It would have been okay in a film, not in a game when you decide who's shepard. Shepard should be able to win, not because he's stronger than anything, but because it is a game. And saying it would not be possible to do so without hurting the ME universe is just lack of imagination (even more if one can use Deus Ex Machina and call it official ^^).

Mass Effect 2's ending did not reflect your choices, the only signifigant differences appeared when you deliberately went out of your way to kill people and get Shepard killed.  In the end the only real effect you could have on the ending was to destroy or keep the base.  Two choices.

It's a story about a war that we have been told repeatedly is impossible to win with conventional military force alone.  Some sort of Deus Ex Machina was unavoidable.  Forced sacrifice reinforces the direness of the situation.  Choosing which sacrifice to make is where player choice comes in.  We have NEVER had complete control over Shepard.  We can control some details, but we have to accept basic facts.  Shepard has always been willing to risk or give his or her life to save the galaxy from the Reapers, Paragon or Renegade, even to the point of taking on a suicide mission in Mass Effect 2.

(Saying Shepard should be able to win "because it is a game" is one of the worst cop outs I've ever read.)

[InvincibleHero]

I'm with you. They might be explaini ng the endings far sooner than they anticipated. They may have wanted the ending to set up ME 4 or even ME with whatever subtitle not even naming it game 4.

[Heimdall]

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

Really OP, the endings were varied? Come on, you don't need to be a nuclear scientist to figure out how lame they are and how the endings just left more unanswered questions.

The problem with these endings is that Bioware went HOLLYWOOD and dropped everything just like that trying to mimic a big screen movie. But it failed judging on the fans reaction including mine.

I never said they were varied, at least on screen.

In terms of implications?  Yes, they were.

[Heimdall]

nevar00 wrote...

Well whatever it was it caused the Normandy to crash.  And even if that wasn't the case, the whole army and places like Omega still starve to death and everyone else is stuck in a pile of rubble needing aid and left wondering what is going on.

...I devoted a rather large portion of my post to explaining why this isn't true

[Heimdall]

Texansamurai wrote...

Well, I do think this "new tech" will come down to creating their own Mass Relays eventually.  It would be difficult to make anything Mass Effect without them.

I think it will most likely take thousands among thousands of years especially for the sol system seeing its most likely the resources to build such a machine might not be abundant, other wise in our world right now we would have such a thing.

So I think earth is screwed in the ME universe. I wouldnt say humans in general seeing humans are on alot of different planets. Possibly even on Palavin or Asari home worlds.

Depends on how much of the Prothean research from Ilos remains.  They managed it.  I think it'll turn into a veritable arms race, the first species to create mass relays will have a huge advantage.

[Firanphord]

It shows how much people care, I see it as a compliment in many ways. It could have been handled differently by some players, but most people behave accordingly.

I don't like the end. In fact, I hate it, I think its genuinely bad in so many ways I won't mention it again. If that was not enough, it also manages to taint the whole franchise for me.

I won't demand Bioware to release another ending, I sure would like it, but I won't campaign against them. I'll be open to future Bioware games if they interest me, no reason to hold a grudge over it.

I care about the game, honestly I even care about Bioware, so I honestly hope it all gets resolved.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Because many people are extremely invested in the series. They don't want to see it end on such an incoherent note. If this was any other game, the majority would **** on the ending and forget about the game. Since ME has such a huge fanbase, they want to come back to play the games over and over again.

This is impossible for many at the moment, because the ending is really, really unusually bad.

[InvincibleHero]

Well if the reapear ftl tech can be replicated it is 24 ly a day or faster and it makes things entirely manageable. Recall in ME2 it looked like at the end we got reaper specs on a data pad. Even if their tech is destroyed that could be used.

[AlanC9]

I'm pretty much in sympathy with Lord Aesir's post, but I want to nitpick a couple of things (yeah, I know, bad habit)

Lord Aesir wrote...
Consider also that the level of control you had in the ending of Mass Effect 3 was greater than the previous two games.  In Mass Effect we had a single choice between two alternatives, saving or killing the council.  In Mass Effect 2 we had a similar choice between destroying or saving the Collector Base.  In Mass Effect 3 we had three choices, really, this is a repeat of what Bioware has been doing all along.  If choice was your complaint you should have brought it up in Mass Effect.

Or with KotOR and BG2, with only two choices. Or the NWN OC, with  no choice at all. DA:O's the high point of Bio ending choice, and even there all endings have the Archdemon killed by somebody, and most end choices aren't very different.. certainly not as different as ME3's quarian/geth or krogan options.

However, ME3 does neutralize the differences from the ME1 and ME2 endgame choices. The ME2 end choice is something like 100 WA points plus a lower EMS threshold for one of the endgame options. ME1's counts for even less (not that I mind this too much, since it was never clear how an all-human Council would actually be able to govern).

Others complain about the tragic nature of the endings.  Really, I would have been more dissapointed by the presence of a happy rainbows and sunshine ending.  A magic button that annihilated the Reapers and nothing else would have rendered the Crucible an even worse Deus Ex Machina then it already is.  It is the inevitable nature of each ending that makes them work as tragedy and reinforces the idea that the Reapers can't be defeated without sacrifice, which Shepard isn't immune to.  A "Happy" ending renders them simple mistakes that could have been avoided.

I agree with this fully. My only problem with this aspect is that the 4000 EMS ending is unavailable without multiplayer. I always wanted an ending where you can get this, but only if you sacrifice that. OTOH, none of my Shepards would ever pick the "red" ending even with the bonus, so for me it's moot.

That brings me to my last point, some have focused off the incorrect assertion that the allied fleet is stranded in Sol and that this will lead to a war over resources.  This is simply untrue.  First of all, they still have FTL.  It may take years, decades for the quarians and geth, but all of them can return home.  Their ships will just need expanded fuel reserves and possibly the equipment to refine fuel.  No doubt the quarians can help with that, and the crucible brought with it the galaxy's finest engineers.  There will be no food shortage.  The Reapers focused on population centers, so it stands to reason that most of the Earth's farmland is intact.  The quarians have giant agri-ships for this purpose as well and could probably feed both themselves and the turians given that they left the civilians at home.  The geth don't need food.  The turians would think of something if the quarians aren't there I suppose.  The high casualties of the fleet and the reduced population of the earth actually helps in this regard.  As for raw materials, they have an entire solar system and lots of wreckage to salvage from, they'll be fine.  Actually a scenario I plan on using for a post-ME3 fanfiction is the allied fleet harvesting advanced FTL tech from Reaper corpses (They did cruise in from dark space after all), but that's just a single wild possibility.  The point is that they are far from doomed, it's just going to take them awhile to get home.

This. So much this. I've come around to the idea that Bio needs to do some sort of ending DLC because there are so many outright stupid interpretations of the ending floating around on this board. If people really think that the allied fleets will starve in the Sol system because they somehow think that FTL travel requires the relays, then I guess Bio's going to have to spoon-feed them an explanation of why that didn't happen.

[AlanC9]

Lord Aesir wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Well whatever it was it caused the Normandy to crash.  And even if that wasn't the case, the whole army and places like Omega still starve to death and everyone else is stuck in a pile of rubble needing aid and left wondering what is going on.

...I devoted a rather large portion of my post to explaining why this isn't true

Like I said, this is why we need a DLC. At least you and me won't have to buy it. 

[Texansamurai]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Texansamurai wrote...

Well, I do think this "new tech" will come down to creating their own Mass Relays eventually.  It would be difficult to make anything Mass Effect without them.

I think it will most likely take thousands among thousands of years especially for the sol system seeing its most likely the resources to build such a machine might not be abundant, other wise in our world right now we would have such a thing.

So I think earth is screwed in the ME universe. I wouldnt say humans in general seeing humans are on alot of different planets. Possibly even on Palavin or Asari home worlds.

Depends on how much of the Prothean research from Ilos remains.  They managed it.  I think it'll turn into a veritable arms race, the first species to create mass relays will have a huge advantage.

Sounds like an interesting concept I think. I don't think the other races would go against each other for awhile, but I do see this as a foothold for a batarian empire waging war on all the races in revenge if they could pull off mass relay technology. They could take over all of the colonies seeing no one can transport goods fast enough.

[stabbykitteh]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Some complaints focus on the Normandy's portion of the ending.  Admittedly, this is the one portion I wish they had done differently, but I really don't think this scene matters very much.  The point is that your crew is alive and kicking, having survived the Reaper war and now they can help rebuild.

This seems to be the one bit everyone agrees on. The teleporting squadmates/Normandy crash was... ?

As for the rest, I agree wholeheartedly. Not enough credit is being given to the remaining groups to rebuild. It might take many decades, but the tech is there, the Prothean research is there and as the OP said, the best scientists and engineers in the galaxy just happen to be hanging out together.

The cost at the end was unfathomably high (How many died, exactly? Billions?) but it is better than being obliterated every 50,000 years, yes?

Modifié par Flummox, 22 mars 2012 - 03:42 .