239 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The interpretations aren't stupid. It's using the lore from the ME universe and basic human logic.

It will take, for example, the Qurains a couple decades to get back to their system if they travel in a costant FTL. For this to even be viable, we have to assume they will always find random pockets of fuel on the way back. They won't, because it's nearly impossible, but let's just assume that. They also have to be able to dock to discharge the FTL drives every couple of days, because large amounts of time in FTL in the ME universe will kill everyone on the ship. You also have to remember that they will not always be able to find a planet to dock on, because there are enormous stretches of space in space. On top of this, they will not be able to gather supplies to sustain their dextro food growth, as they would often be in uninhabited systems.

The only way to make your interpretation work is if you pile on the assumptions with a large helping of incredible optimism. The reason people are interpreting it this "stupid" way, is because they have actually sat down and thought about what would be required to make such an unrealistic journey.

the journey is not unrealistic.  There were planned FTL trips to Ilos that only never went anywhere due to lack of funding.  It is perfectly feasible for them to make this journey, though it will be difficult as you noted.  However, the Quarians are used to going a very long time without a proper port.  I imagine they can teach the other species to do the same.

[Tirigon]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Yes. It's been calculated to be about 20 years in constant FTL, which is impossible. You have also completely discarded main points in what i said, namely the fuel. You seem to have also forgotten that the majority of the galaxy has not been traversed, and the Quarians will be going in blind.

ACTUALLY, Fuel isnt required in space travel once you left the planets gravitation. With nothing to slow you down you will drift on forever and only need force, and thus fuel, to slow down and navigate.

[mmm buddah23]

Tirigon wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Yes. It's been calculated to be about 20 years in constant FTL, which is impossible. You have also completely discarded main points in what i said, namely the fuel. You seem to have also forgotten that the majority of the galaxy has not been traversed, and the Quarians will be going in blind.

ACTUALLY, Fuel isnt required in space travel once you left the planets gravitation. With nothing to slow you down you will drift on forever and only need force, and thus fuel, to slow down and navigate.

tell that to my game where i travel in FTL speeds between systems. I use fuel. In the ME universe, fuel is required.

[Tirigon]

Lord Aesir wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Shepard destroying them makes him or her commit Galactic genocide . No one person has the right to doom the galaxy. That is one thing I hated about the endings

I did explain that this isn't so.  The relays did not explode as you think they did.

But you are wrong. The ending clearly SHOWS their destruction, the only way to say they arent destroyed is going back to the "lol it didnt happen anyways" of the Indoctrination theory.

[Tirigon]

mmm buddah23 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Yes. It's been calculated to be about 20 years in constant FTL, which is impossible. You have also completely discarded main points in what i said, namely the fuel. You seem to have also forgotten that the majority of the galaxy has not been traversed, and the Quarians will be going in blind.

ACTUALLY, Fuel isnt required in space travel once you left the planets gravitation. With nothing to slow you down you will drift on forever and only need force, and thus fuel, to slow down and navigate.

tell that to my game where i travel in FTL speeds between systems. I use fuel. In the ME universe, fuel is required.

Yep, one of the many things that suck about ME3 but are ignored because the ending sucks infinitely mch more.
Spacetravel does not require fuel once started, basic physics.

[mmm buddah23]

Tirigon wrote...

mmm buddah23 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Yes. It's been calculated to be about 20 years in constant FTL, which is impossible. You have also completely discarded main points in what i said, namely the fuel. You seem to have also forgotten that the majority of the galaxy has not been traversed, and the Quarians will be going in blind.

ACTUALLY, Fuel isnt required in space travel once you left the planets gravitation. With nothing to slow you down you will drift on forever and only need force, and thus fuel, to slow down and navigate.

tell that to my game where i travel in FTL speeds between systems. I use fuel. In the ME universe, fuel is required.

Yep, one of the many things that suck about ME3 but are ignored because the ending sucks infinitely mch more.
Spacetravel does not require fuel once started, basic physics.

Basic physics also states that FTL speeds are impossible, because if you collide with a marbel sized object, the resulting explosion would be hundreds of times the size of our largest hydrogen bomb. Real life physics have no place in a fantasy game. And spae is full of marbel sized objects.

Modifié par mmm buddah23, 22 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

Who gives a rat's a** about that?

Hoenstly, fanon stories ae NEVER canon anyway. You can make up whatever you want..or place the story in a different time period.

Honestly if there4 is one thing that irks me is this incesan sense of entiltement that many gamers display. Everything has to be to their liking of they will moan and cry and protest.

You didn't like the ending? Neither did I. But you aren't entitled to anything you [censored] [censored]!!!

[Heimdall]

Tirigon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Shepard destroying them makes him or her commit Galactic genocide . No one person has the right to doom the galaxy. That is one thing I hated about the endings

I did explain that this isn't so.  The relays did not explode as you think they did.

But you are wrong. The ending clearly SHOWS their destruction, the only way to say they arent destroyed is going back to the "lol it didnt happen anyways" of the Indoctrination theory.

You misunderstand me.  I am not saying they weren't destroyed.  They were destroyed, but they did not take the entire star system with them as Cerberussoldier was suggesting.  The energy was coopted into the energy wave from the crucible.

[user1234567890]

Who's obsessed? A lot of people hate it. That's not the same as obsessing. The internet is obsessed, perhaps, but they are still many instances. You can't really say.

I actually hate the change of tone in the game. All the characters suddenly do stuff they never did before. It's okay to some degree, but it's too much at once. Instead of learning about dark secrets in a dark way, we get... just a shooter with the final release post-production objectives stated right at the start of the game. Instant turn-off. I thought we're explorers in this story and not the aim-robots.

Modifié par user1234567890, 22 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[Tirigon]

Lord Aesir wrote...
You misunderstand me.  I am not saying they weren't destroyed.  They were destroyed, but they did not take the entire star system with them as Cerberussoldier was suggesting.  The energy was coopted into the energy wave from the crucible.

Oh well, then Shepard didnt kill everyone immediately but only cut them off their homeworld and destroyed galactic civilisation by isolating every system from the others.

I guess that's better but.. not all that much, really.

[Heimdall]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Mass Effect 2's ending did not reflect your choices, the only signifigant differences appeared when you deliberately went out of your way to kill people and get Shepard killed.  In the end the only real effect you could have on the ending was to destroy or keep the base.  Two choices.

Choices during the whole games affect who gets killed as a result: you have to gain (and keep) the faith of your teammates, you have to prepare the Normandy, to be fast enough to react to your crew being taken, and to take good decision, resulting in various levels from good to bad.

Rather cosmetic when it come down to it, and a smaller scale of what they planned to do with the war asset system, which also took actions throughout the game into account and affected what endings were available.

It's a story about a war that we have been told repeatedly is impossible to win with conventional military force alone.  Some sort of Deus Ex Machina was unavoidable.  Forced sacrifice reinforces the direness of the situation.  Choosing which sacrifice to make is where player choice comes in.  We have NEVER had complete control over Shepard.  We can control some details, but we have to accept basic facts.  Shepard has always been willing to risk or give his or her life to save the galaxy from the Reapers, Paragon or Renegade, even to the point of taking on a suicide mission in Mass Effect 2.
(Saying Shepard should be able to win "because it is a game" is one of the worst cop outs I've ever read.)

Until ME2, reapers were not totally unstoppable, they had to rely on sneaky tactics to be absolutely sure there won't be retaliations, and dead reapers prooved that even more. There was no telling about them having to fights a united galaxy, only powerful civilisations. And about Shepard, you should try to play a renegade one during lair of the shadow brocker with a savefile where he did not romanced Liara, you'll see what he says during the cabin conversation: he fights for his own survival. Besides, that "cannon" Shepard just agreeing with the kid seems just plain stupid.

And face it, it's a game, so you're supposed to have a chance a victory, not an automated game over screen. And as I already says, if you cannot find a logical way to do so, then you're just lacking imagination (then should not be anyone's game master).

It took an entire fleet to take out just one, and that was with Shepard destroying Sovreign's avatar.  We were also told that there were thousands of them.  They have always been an unstoppable force, the Citadel plan was just the most eficient way to carry out their purpose.  It doesn't mean they needed it.  This was all in Mass Effect before Mass Effect 2.

His own survival is a slim possibility, it is actually possible to survive one ending, but something has to be done or he will have no chance of survival because the Reapers will go on unhindered.  As I said, all Shepards are willing to risk their lives at some point to stop the Reapers.  Shepard doesn't have to agree with the Catalyst's reasoning.  He just has to choose between the only doors available or doom organic life with his stubborness.

[Heimdall]

Tirigon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
You misunderstand me.  I am not saying they weren't destroyed.  They were destroyed, but they did not take the entire star system with them as Cerberussoldier was suggesting.  The energy was coopted into the energy wave from the crucible.

Oh well, then Shepard didnt kill everyone immediately but only cut them off their homeworld and destroyed galactic civilisation by isolating every system from the others.

I guess that's better but.. not all that much, really.

They can get home.

[Taura-Tierno]

I only have two things I object to with the endings:

* That your choices never mattered. I don't mind the actual endings, but there should've been some correlation between the choices you've made previously. There should've been hints in, if not ME1 and ME2, at the very least in ME3 to forshadow these three possible endings. There's a missing link between the choices you make at the end, and the choices you've made previously in the series. That missing link is the fatal flaw.

* The lack of an epilogue. There should've been something more. Not necessarily about how the galaxy survives, but about the the companions. What happened with Liara and Garrus? EDI and Joker? Something.

Those, I think, are the greatest issues, and if they didn't exist, there wouldn't have been this kind of outrage. I don't mind the relays going kaboom. The reason so many people rant about that is probably because the issue of disliking the endings are aggravated by the more critical issues that exist with them. That is, the two I mentioned above.

[Tirigon]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
You misunderstand me.  I am not saying they weren't destroyed.  They were destroyed, but they did not take the entire star system with them as Cerberussoldier was suggesting.  The energy was coopted into the energy wave from the crucible.

Oh well, then Shepard didnt kill everyone immediately but only cut them off their homeworld and destroyed galactic civilisation by isolating every system from the others.

I guess that's better but.. not all that much, really.

They can get home.

If their warships contain lifepods, yes. They will even get to enjoy seeing how their worlds look in a few decades without having to participate in rebuildingB)

[Heimdall]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

I only have two things I object to with the endings:

* That your choices never mattered. I don't mind the actual endings, but there should've been some correlation between the choices you've made previously. There should've been hints in, if not ME1 and ME2, at the very least in ME3 to forshadow these three possible endings. There's a missing link between the choices you make at the end, and the choices you've made previously in the series. That missing link is the fatal flaw.

* The lack of an epilogue. There should've been something more. Not necessarily about how the galaxy survives, but about the the companions. What happened with Liara and Garrus? EDI and Joker? Something.

Those, I think, are the greatest issues, and if they didn't exist, there wouldn't have been this kind of outrage. I don't mind the relays going kaboom. The reason so many people rant about that is probably because the issue of disliking the endings are aggravated by the more critical issues that exist with them. That is, the two I mentioned above.

Those are valid complaints I can sympathize with.  They might not have bothered me as much as they did you, but these sorts of objections I get.

[Taura-Tierno]

Yes, precisely. I understand a lot of the disappointment, because I'm partly disappointed myself ... but the game aside from the ending was fantastic. And so were the other two games. So I don't get the rage.

[Heimdall]

As you say, I can understand being a little unsatisfied, but the vehemence I have been witnessing just seems way out of proportion to me.

[AlanC9]

Tirigon wrote...
Yep, one of the many things that suck about ME3 but are ignored because the ending sucks infinitely mch more.
Spacetravel does not require fuel once started, basic physics.

Basic physics also says you can't do FTL at all. So on what basis do you figure FTL travel will work like regular travel?

[Heimdall]

AlanC9 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Yep, one of the many things that suck about ME3 but are ignored because the ending sucks infinitely mch more.
Spacetravel does not require fuel once started, basic physics.

Basic physics also says you can't do FTL at all. So on what basis do you figure FTL travel will work like regular travel?

Well, maybe the fuel is not consumed for the engines, but rather to provide power to maintain the mass effect fields for FTL?  That seems like a reasonable explanation.

[sedrikhcain]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I can fully understand why one might not be completly satisfied with the endings.  I count myself amongst those that where content with them for the most part.

That brings me to my last point, some have focused off the incorrect assertion that the allied fleet is stranded in Sol and that this will lead to a war over resources.  This is simply untrue.  First of all, they still have FTL.  It may take years, decades for the quarians and geth, but all of them can return home.  Their ships will just need expanded fuel reserves and possibly the equipment to refine fuel.  No doubt the quarians can help with that, and the crucible brought with it the galaxy's finest engineers.  There will be no food shortage.  The Reapers focused on population centers, so it stands to reason that most of the Earth's farmland is intact.  The quarians have giant agri-ships for this purpose as well and could probably feed both themselves and the turians given that they left the civilians at home.  The geth don't need food.  The turians would think of something if the quarians aren't there I suppose.  The high casualties of the fleet and the reduced population of the earth actually helps in this regard.  As for raw materials, they have an entire solar system and lots of wreckage to salvage from, they'll be fine.  Actually a scenario I plan on using for a post-ME3 fanfiction is the allied fleet harvesting advanced FTL tech from Reaper corpses (They did cruise in from dark space after all), but that's just a single wild possibility.  The point is that they are far from doomed, it's just going to take them awhile to get home.

Also, the galaxy isn't destroyed.  The energy of the relays was coopted into the benign (Unless you chose destruction) energy wave of the crucible rather than exploding outward and obliterating star systems, hence why the color of the "Explosions" changed with each ending.

I'm just trying to express why the outrage has me flustered.  Offer your two cents at your leisure.

First of all, I chose destruction, so how do you incorporate that into your theory? But aside from that, I still say the Milky Way is forever changed -- or at least it's changed for a few hundred thousand years until we can either rebuild the mass relays or replace them with something else that does the same thing. Interstellar travel is now far too time-consuming to be in any way practical  -- or even possible for 95% of the population (the non-super rich or non-military. That pushes the entire galaxy back into the isolated era that existed before interstellar travel. There are stories you could tell about the various worlds and people in that state but the nature of the galaxy as one community is gone now, and it ain't coming back. That means the types of stories you could tell are all different now. Think about it, how would any of the stories in 1 2 or 3 be in any way possible without the Mass Relays? Just as a for instance, the idea of chaces or races against time like the one at the end of ME1 ar laughable because Saren and Shepard would be old and decrepit by the time they finished their journeys. And there can be no equivalent to the Citadel, where you had people from every place shuttling back and forth between their home worlds and a galactic hub.

Sorry but I don't see it. 

[HTTP 404]

I too own a wand of sweeping generalization.

here's a generalization: people should focus on what they want out of the game and worry less about what other people want

Modifié par HTTP 404, 23 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Heimdall]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

I can fully understand why one might not be completly satisfied with the endings.  I count myself amongst those that where content with them for the most part.

That brings me to my last point, some have focused off the incorrect assertion that the allied fleet is stranded in Sol and that this will lead to a war over resources.  This is simply untrue.  First of all, they still have FTL.  It may take years, decades for the quarians and geth, but all of them can return home.  Their ships will just need expanded fuel reserves and possibly the equipment to refine fuel.  No doubt the quarians can help with that, and the crucible brought with it the galaxy's finest engineers.  There will be no food shortage.  The Reapers focused on population centers, so it stands to reason that most of the Earth's farmland is intact.  The quarians have giant agri-ships for this purpose as well and could probably feed both themselves and the turians given that they left the civilians at home.  The geth don't need food.  The turians would think of something if the quarians aren't there I suppose.  The high casualties of the fleet and the reduced population of the earth actually helps in this regard.  As for raw materials, they have an entire solar system and lots of wreckage to salvage from, they'll be fine.  Actually a scenario I plan on using for a post-ME3 fanfiction is the allied fleet harvesting advanced FTL tech from Reaper corpses (They did cruise in from dark space after all), but that's just a single wild possibility.  The point is that they are far from doomed, it's just going to take them awhile to get home.

Also, the galaxy isn't destroyed.  The energy of the relays was coopted into the benign (Unless you chose destruction) energy wave of the crucible rather than exploding outward and obliterating star systems, hence why the color of the "Explosions" changed with each ending.

I'm just trying to express why the outrage has me flustered.  Offer your two cents at your leisure.

First of all, I chose destruction, so how do you incorporate that into your theory? But aside from that, I still say the Milky Way is forever changed -- or at least it's changed for a few hundred thousand years until we can either rebuild the mass relays or replace them with something else that does the same thing. Interstellar travel is now far too time-consuming to be in any way practical  -- or even possible for 95% of the population (the non-super rich or non-military. That pushes the entire galaxy back into the isolated era that existed before interstellar travel. There are stories you could tell about the various worlds and people in that state but the nature of the galaxy as one community is gone now, and it ain't coming back. That means the types of stories you could tell are all different now. Think about it, how would any of the stories in 1 2 or 3 be in any way possible without the Mass Relays? Just as a for instance, the idea of chaces or races against time like the one at the end of ME1 ar laughable because Saren and Shepard would be old and decrepit by the time they finished their journeys. And there can be no equivalent to the Citadel, where you had people from every place shuttling back and forth between their home worlds and a galactic hub.

Sorry but I don't see it. 

My theory?  Honestly, all I'm cautioning against is misinterpretation.  The destruction ending is the only one that can screw over the fleet sice you have potentially critically damaged all ships.  However, some people actlike that is the inevitable result of every ending.  Space travel may take years now, but it is still possible, colonies require more commitment but their still possible.  Personally I think the Asari are going to turn out new mass relays in under a century drawing on Prothean data from Ilos.  I fully expect a time skip to the next game in the series.

[alex13abc]

Texansamurai wrote...

I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.

It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith

Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.

This. BW nuked their own universe to all hell. The world as we know it can't continue. Add to that the outright lies in advertising the game and the fact that the ending contradicts everything the franchise and the lore established and anger is pretty easy to understand.

[gallenger]

I just don't get why they didn't copy the ending from Free space 2. Crucible ought to have been a system destroying bomb (mass relay). Good shepard dets. the bomb on Earth - paragon shep sticks around to help evac civilians and etc, and probably dies doing so. Renegade shep sets up the bomb and gets out of dodge woosh goes the Charon relay, earth, and the citadel.  The same could be repeated whereever the Reaper appear in forces too large to combat conventionally - it would make for a bleak heart breaking ending (homeworlds going up in super-nova flames) but also have heroic stories to tell and lots to sort out in any future games + who knows how many repears would be out there.  No need for god children or space magic :/  

So much more simple + tons of open space for more games and DLC lol. I don't get it :/

Modifié par gallenger, 23 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[Eire Icon]

Nice post OP

I myself felt the ending did lack closure and felt somewhat incomplete but I do think its worth remembering that this is the ending of the shepard arc, not the end of the ME universe or neccesserily the characters within it.

While I would like closure on my squadmates and what the events straight after the war, I'm also aware of the fact thats its not yet known what Bioware intend to do with the surviving characters. While the Shpeard arc is now at an end, maybe there is allot more to be told when it comes to Liara, Garrus, Tali etc

Modifié par Eire Icon, 23 mars 2012 - 12:39 .