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All this obsession over the endings: Why it bothers me


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#151
Heimdall

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iamthedave3 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

That first question is actually answered by the Catalyst itself.  Organics inevitably create synthetics.  So you'll have to try again.

I have given an explanation that makes the ending consistant without genocide and without strange indoctrination theories.  So I don't really feel a problem with plotholes.


The Catalyst's logic is ass-backwards at best.

The reapers/catalyst freely admit to using their tech to manipulate the way the universe's organics develop. So in other words they know organics always create synthetics because they manipulate organics in such a way as to insure that they make synthetics. Is this how it works? You could argue not, but it's a logical extrapolation from what the reapers say and it goes unchallenged in the narrative.

But then the catalyst makes an insane jump to 'synthetic life will inevitably annihilate all organic life in the universe' despite the fact the only significant case of such violence in this cycle was caused by the creators attacking their creations and during the events of the game it's possible to settle the conflicts with all aggressive synthetics in the universe.

Oh, and the Geth from the first game were aggressive because of direct intervention from the reapers.

And this is the logic that drives the endings, which must be accurate for any of those events to make even one iota of sense. That does follow the standard definition of a plot hole.

The relay explosions are a definitive plot hole. We have seen one explode, we know the consequences of this. There is no explanation of why this would be any different. You can provide an explanation yourself, but that doesn't stop it being a plot hole, because the narrative contradicts itself.

The ground team teleporting to the normandy is a plot hole.

The normandy fleeing the greatest battle of its time is a plot hole. It goes against every piece of characterization that has occurred for every character on that ship across three games.

Can you ignore the plot holes? Yes. You can just shrug and accept them. but don't pretend they aren't there.

The narrative does not contradict my explanation.  The crucible coopted the relays for it's own purpose when it sent out it's signal.  That's likely part of the reason it had to be interfaced with the Citadel, the control center of the relay network.  With those same controls it altered the energy output of the relays so that it would become part of the pulse when the energy wave reached it.

I won't argue about the Normandy,  I've already said it's the one thing I would change, though I will suggest that at some point during the three occasions Shepard was unconcious after Harbinger opened fire there might have been a time gap great enough for the squad  to fall back and get extracted.

It would have made more sense if it had crashed on Earth.

#152
iamthedave3

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No, it doesn't contradict your explanation. but your explanation isn't the game's explanation. The game doesn't provide one. That's what makes it a plot hole.

For example, in the opening, the game proclaims 'UP IS DOWN' but in the ending it says 'DOWN IS UP'.

Perhaps you as the player can explain why this change occurs, but if the game gives no hint or offers no attempt to explain the change, that comprises a plot hole. And many people despise plot holes. Bear in mind this isn't a complaint about 'thinking for myself' I'm quite capable of that. The problem is the game being too lazy to answer simple, blatant questions it raises.

Modifié par iamthedave3, 23 mars 2012 - 05:20 .


#153
Pride Demon

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Lord Aesir wrote...
Possibly, but the Catalyst says that no matter the choice the burst from the crucible will destroy the relays.

>>SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS<<
>>Read the post at your own risk<<
>>Jump to the end to avoid spoiling<<







True, but I could generally define as "destroyed" both a heavily damaged and deactivated object and a totally obliterated object...
And to be fair, the Catalyst doesn't seem to be big on accurate descriptions: since, for instance, when applicable with the "destroy" ending, it blatantly fails to mention the crucible will indeed destroy all synthetics, but also apparently all organics as well, as shown here...
This is effectively the worst possible ending, and even if the last part is mysterious, all you friends are implied to have died as well, but the Catalyst fails to mention the risk of misfiring... :/






>>SPOILER END HERE<<

#154
Heimdall

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MDT1 wrote...
No, you have only said that the explosion was altered by using spacemagic and contradicts simple physic laws:
The surface of a sphere is 4*pi*radius²( approximatly 12*radius²).
Now as explained the Normandy was more than 30.000.000 million km away from pluto relay.
Pluto is at most 7.500 million Km away from Earth.
So when the explosion hit Earth the energy was evenly spread over a surface of 675.000.000 trillion km², when it hit the Normandy 10.800.000.000.000.000 trillion km².
So whatever hit the normandy it was 16.000.000 times stronger when it passed Earth.

So what does that have to do with anything?  The explosion was altered via commands from the Citadel, the control system for the whole network.  Thats part of the reason the crucible had to be plugged into the Citadel.


That first question is actually answered by the Catalyst itself.  Organics inevitably create synthetics.  So you'll have to try again.

This was actually the last question, and no, killing the organics obviously does not prevent synhthetics from beeing created as the Geth are over hundered years old. And on top of that nearly as peacful as Ghandi, which somehow contradicts the need for the cycle at all.

You do realize you don't have to be convinced by the Reaper's logic, right?  They can be wrong.  I'm just saying that the question you suggested was answered.  The Reapers will only stop, however, if you remove their objections (Synthesis) or give them no choice but to stop (Control, Destruction)

I have given an explanation that makes the ending consistant without genocide and without strange indoctrination theories.  So I don't really feel a problem with plotholes.


I envy you if you can ignore the plotholes, I unfortunately can't.

I don't ignore plotholes, I come up with theories that explain them.  And I have.

#155
Heimdall

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Pride Demon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Possibly, but the Catalyst says that no matter the choice the burst from the crucible will destroy the relays.

>>SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS<<
>>Read the post at your own risk<<
>>Jump to the end to avoid spoiling<<







True, but I could generally define as "destroyed" both a heavily damaged and deactivated object and a totally obliterated object...
And to be fair, the Catalyst doesn't seem to be big on accurate descriptions: since, for instance, when applicable with the "destroy" ending, it blatantly fails to mention the crucible will indeed destroy all synthetics, but also apparently all organics as well, as shown here...
This is effectively the worst possible ending, and even if the last part is mysterious, all you friends are implied to have died as well, but the Catalyst fails to mention the risk of misfiring... :/






>>SPOILER END HERE<<

That actually depends on how high your EMS rating is.  A higher rating just destroys synthetics.

#156
Heimdall

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iamthedave3 wrote...

No, it doesn't contradict your explanation. but your explanation isn't the game's explanation. The game doesn't provide one. That's what makes it a plot hole.

For example, in the opening, the game proclaims 'UP IS DOWN' but in the ending it says 'DOWN IS UP'.

Perhaps you as the player can explain why this change occurs, but if the game gives no hint or offers no attempt to explain the change, that comprises a plot hole. And many people despise plot holes. Bear in mind this isn't a complaint about 'thinking for myself' I'm quite capable of that. The problem is the game being too lazy to answer simple, blatant questions it raises.

It's only a plot hole if the game is not contradicting itself and an explanation is possible.  That's always been my understanding of the phrase and the manner I've seen it utilized.

#157
culletron1

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I disliked the endings but that shepard died and there were some consequences to using the crucible are the things I liked best...

I don't want a fairy tale... Maybe I am in the minority in that

Its the plot holes, deus ex machina, lack of dialog options and inconsistencies that got me.

#158
kbct

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Lord Aesir wrote...
I don't ignore plotholes, I come up with theories that explain them.  And I have.


If the shockwave tears off the wing of the Normandy, what did it do to the other ships?

Modifié par kbct, 23 mars 2012 - 05:27 .


#159
MDT1

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[quote]Lord Aesir wrote...

[quote]MDT1 wrote...
No, you have only said that the explosion was altered by using spacemagic and contradicts simple physic laws:
The surface of a sphere is 4*pi*radius²( approximatly 12*radius²).
Now as explained the Normandy was more than 30.000.000 million km away from pluto relay.
Pluto is at most 7.500 million Km away from Earth.
So when the explosion hit Earth the energy was evenly spread over a surface of 675.000.000 trillion km², when it hit the Normandy 10.800.000.000.000.000 trillion km².
So whatever hit the normandy it was 16.000.000 times stronger when it passed Earth.[/quote]So what does that have to do with anything?  The explosion was altered via commands from the Citadel, the control system for the whole network.  Thats part of the reason the crucible had to be plugged into the Citadel.[/quote]
Yes, but even the altered space magic damages the normandy, and I just calculated  it would damage earth at least 16 million times as much as it damages the normandy.[quote]

[quote][quote]

That first question is actually answered by the Catalyst itself.  Organics inevitably create synthetics.  So you'll have to try again.[/quote]
This was actually the last question, and no, killing the organics obviously does not prevent synhthetics from beeing created as the Geth are over hundered years old. And on top of that nearly as peacful as Ghandi, which somehow contradicts the need for the cycle at all.[/quote]You do realize you don't have to be convinced by the Reaper's logic, right?  They can be wrong.  I'm just saying that the question you suggested was answered.  The Reapers will only stop, however, if you remove their objections (Synthesis) or give them no choice but to stop (Control, Destruction)[/quote]
Reaper logic is obviouls wrong, that is exactly the point why people complain that Shepard doesn't even try to argue about this. Also it wasn't answered, as I pointed out control as example could have been just like touching a giant electric socket and change nothing about the reapers, godkid could and would most probably just lie.[quote]
[quote][quote]
I have given an explanation that makes the ending consistant without genocide and without strange indoctrination theories.  So I don't really feel a problem with plotholes.

[/quote]

I envy you if you can ignore the plotholes, I unfortunately can't.

[/quote]I don't ignore plotholes, I come up with theories that explain them.  And I have.
[/quote][/quote] Which aren't confincing at all and don't even try to explain half of the problems people have with inconsistencies and plotholes.

Modifié par MDT1, 23 mars 2012 - 05:32 .


#160
OmegaBlue0231

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Lord Aesir wrote...

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

I would have liked at least one sunshine and rainbows ending instead of three dark, "Galactic life is over as we know it because it takes decades to reach another world" endings that we got. At least give us the option instead of three endings that are the same.

They aren't the same.  Each has vastly different implications for the galaxy at large.  Also, decades is only the time it'll take to get across the galaxy, like from Earth to Rannoch.  One could probably go from Earth to Tuchanka in under a decade


But how does the galactic community continue? that's 12 years there and back. Even if you made it the reason you went there would probably be pointless after 12 years.At that point it would be better to just cut all ties until someone invents warp drive, another mass relay, or worm hole technology.

Not to mention even if they were fine like you think, what about space stations or colonies they depend on transports for food, can they afford to wait 12 years for food? That's millions dead within weeks.

Modifié par OmegaBlue0231, 23 mars 2012 - 05:33 .


#161
Pride Demon

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Lord Aesir wrote...

]That actually depends on how high your EMS rating is.  A higher rating just destroys synthetics.

I know, but the fact is the C still doesn't mention it even when that's the ending you get, which makes me think it doesn't feel the need to disclose all the details or give accurate description about what's going to happen...
Thus making what I wrote about B ending possible...

I was not antagonizing you, merely pointing out how it could make sense in context, even if the C seems to say otherwise, considering "destroyed" is subject to interpretation...

Peace... :P

#162
The Unfallen

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Take it or leave it Aesir but I believe, in conjunction with your theory about Shepard's sacrifice in the Control and Synthesis endings being beneficial to the galaxy as a whole, that Shepard choosing to destroy the Reapers ensures his own survival, but dooms the Sol system.

#163
MDT1

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Pride Demon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

]That actually depends on how high your EMS rating is.  A higher rating just destroys synthetics.

I know, but the fact is the C still doesn't mention it even when that's the ending you get, which makes me think it doesn't feel the need to disclose all the details or give accurate description about what's going to happen...
Thus making what I wrote about B ending possible...

I was not antagonizing you, merely pointing out how it could make sense in context, even if the C seems to say otherwise, considering "destroyed" is subject to interpretation...

Peace... :P


Also that the destroy option depends on ems is a plothole in itself or can you explain how the amount of ships you have can affect the explosion?

#164
iamthedave3

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That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.

But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.

Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

#165
Heimdall

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[quote]MDT1 wrote...

[quote]Lord Aesir wrote...

[quote]MDT1 wrote...
No, you have only said that the explosion was altered by using spacemagic and contradicts simple physic laws:
The surface of a sphere is 4*pi*radius²( approximatly 12*radius²).
Now as explained the Normandy was more than 30.000.000 million km away from pluto relay.
Pluto is at most 7.500 million Km away from Earth.
So when the explosion hit Earth the energy was evenly spread over a surface of 675.000.000 trillion km², when it hit the Normandy 10.800.000.000.000.000 trillion km².
So whatever hit the normandy it was 16.000.000 times stronger when it passed Earth.[/quote]So what does that have to do with anything?  The explosion was altered via commands from the Citadel, the control system for the whole network.  Thats part of the reason the crucible had to be plugged into the Citadel.[/quote]
Yes, but even the altered space magic damages the normandy, and I just calculated  it would damage earth at least 16 million times as much as it damages the normandy.[/quote]And I told you that the effect of the wave on the ormandy was minute if not nonexistant and the lion's share of the damage was do the overstressing of the ship systems and damage sustained in the battle[quote][quote]

[quote][quote]

That first question is actually answered by the Catalyst itself.  Organics inevitably create synthetics.  So you'll have to try again.[/quote]
This was actually the last question, and no, killing the organics obviously does not prevent synhthetics from beeing created as the Geth are over hundered years old. And on top of that nearly as peacful as Ghandi, which somehow contradicts the need for the cycle at all.[/quote]You do realize you don't have to be convinced by the Reaper's logic, right?  They can be wrong.  I'm just saying that the question you suggested was answered.  The Reapers will only stop, however, if you remove their objections (Synthesis) or give them no choice but to stop (Control, Destruction)[/quote]
Reaper logic is obviouls wrong, that is exactly the point why people complain that Shepard doesn't even try to argue about this[/quote]The Reapers have witnessed many cycles, according to what Javik relates the situation they describe occured in his cycle even after years when people thought they could make peace.  From the Reaper perspective, Shepard has only delayed the inevitable.  There wouldn't be much point to arguing.  Might it have been a nice option to have a little more of a debate?  Perhaps, I would have like that, but overall it would be inconsequential[quote][quote]
[quote][quote][quote]
I have given an explanation that makes the ending consistant without genocide and without strange indoctrination theories.  So I don't really feel a problem with plotholes.

[/quote]

I envy you if you can ignore the plotholes, I unfortunately can't.

[/quote]I don't ignore plotholes, I come up with theories that explain them.  And I have.
[/quote][/quote] Which aren't confincing at all and don't even try to explain half of the problems people have with inconsistencies and plotholes.
[/quote]I have explained why the Normandy went down and how the galaxy survived all without creating more issues like your ideas do (If the explosion was really destructive, how do you explain the Destruction "Perfect" ending?)

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 23 mars 2012 - 05:40 .


#166
Heimdall

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MDT1 wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

]That actually depends on how high your EMS rating is.  A higher rating just destroys synthetics.

I know, but the fact is the C still doesn't mention it even when that's the ending you get, which makes me think it doesn't feel the need to disclose all the details or give accurate description about what's going to happen...
Thus making what I wrote about B ending possible...

I was not antagonizing you, merely pointing out how it could make sense in context, even if the C seems to say otherwise, considering "destroyed" is subject to interpretation...

Peace... :P


Also that the destroy option depends on ems is a plothole in itself or can you explain how the amount of ships you have can affect the explosion?

I think it has more to do with the galaxy's best engineers and technology you have been gathering for the Crucible.  This should have been a seperate score, but I think that's the issue.

#167
Heimdall

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iamthedave3 wrote...

That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.

But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.

Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.

#168
Heimdall

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The Unfallen wrote...

Take it or leave it Aesir but I believe, in conjunction with your theory about Shepard's sacrifice in the Control and Synthesis endings being beneficial to the galaxy as a whole, that Shepard choosing to destroy the Reapers ensures his own survival, but dooms the Sol system.

It destroys the entire fleet by crippling their technology and commits genocide against the geth and EDI, so in that sense I suppose it does doom the Sol system.

#169
vallore

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Lord Aesir wrote...

I can fully understand why one might not be completly satisfied with the endings.  I count myself amongst those that where content with them for the most part.

What I cannot understand and find frustrating is the sheer hysteria and outrage expressed on these boards towards the endings.



Overall there is no hysteria.  Passion is not hysteria.


Consider also that the level of control you had in the ending of Mass Effect 3 was greater than the previous two games.  In Mass Effect we had a single choice between two alternatives, saving or killing the council.  In Mass Effect 2 we had a similar choice between destroying or saving the Collector Base.  In Mass Effect 3 we had three choices, really, this is a repeat of what Bioware has been doing all along.  If choice was your complaint you should have brought it up in Mass Effect.


You will notice such choices were often deemed unsatisfying by those who dislike the ending. It is very different to have a choice between two enjoyable endings and three unenjoyable ones. Further, while you have three galactic endings you have only one ending at a personal level, (minus an Easter Egg).

Others complain about the tragic nature of the endings.  Really, I would have been more dissapointed by the presence of a happy rainbows and sunshine ending. 


I will point that, unlike a movie or a book, a game is not necessarily limited to a single (personal) ending. (Like ME3 is, currently). So, if I don’t like a particular ending, that is not a problem; if I don’t like any, however, that becomes a problem.

Further, you do realise there is a middle ground, right? It does not have to be rainbow and birds singing but neither need to be distilled angst.

A soldier returning to the one he loves after much toil and suffering, in a destroyed city, filed of bodies, some of those of people he knew, does not make a pink, “and they lived happy ever after” ending. Even if is much more happy than one where he dies alone in some foxhole from a stray bullet... at least would put some sweet in the bitter.


A magic button that annihilated the Reapers and nothing else would have rendered the Crucible an even worse Deus Ex Machina then it already is.  It is the inevitable nature of each ending that makes them work as tragedy and reinforces the idea that the Reapers can't be defeated without sacrifice, which Shepard isn't immune to.  A "Happy" ending renders them simple mistakes that could have been avoided.



Actually, I expected the crucible would explore some fundamental flaw in the Reapers; say, their hubris and disregard for others. I half expected that Harbinger, and perhaps a handful of other Sovereign class reapers controlled their brethren by a similar process to that of indoctrination, and the crucible would break that bound and lead the Reapers to tear at each other. After all. What is the match for a Reaper? Another Reaper.

As for the rest, I never felt Sacrifice as the necessary component for victory. For me Mass Effect felt a tale about how “united we stand” from the beginning, (except for the ending). I never saw Shepard as a tragic hero.  Sacrifice, as was presented, feels more as a divine punishment for disrupting the order of the gods than a necessary action to save Earth and the galaxy. Worse, perhaps, it is not the result of player decisions but rather of fate.

#170
MDT1

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Lord Aesir wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.

But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.

Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.


Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.

#171
catabuca

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AlanC9 wrote...

But doesn't a "happy" ending imply that there are best choices? A tragic ending is worthless if it only comes about because I deliberately screw up -- that's just Shepard being masochistic.


This is why I like, at the very least, the presence and tone of the end choices.

In ME2, people had to work really quite hard to get the 'bad' ending, whereby everyone but Joker dies. Some people actively work toward that ending for kicks, or something where everything went wrong but Shep is alive, so they can import a really dire save into 3 and see how things are different. But ultimately, it's very easy to get the 'best' ending whereby everyone lives to fight another day. Perhaps one or two of your squad might die because you weren't paying attention about who to assign to what task at the end, but from all I've read, most people have tended to reload and choose differently, in order to ensure they get that 'best' ending. In the end, that amounts to less useful choice, even though there is, in fact, choice presented to us. It's safe to assume that most people view the end where everyone survives as the 'best' ending, and therefore by extension, the 'correct' ending.

In ME3, there really is no 'best' or 'correct' or 'real' ending. By not having one path toward complete, happy victory, which most will view as the goal to aim for, or the 'true path,' we're freer to make decisions based on the grounds of ethics, morality, and the type of person we believe our Shepard to be.

Personally, I would have liked, among other things, the inclusion of a fourth option: that to tell the Catalyst I wouldn't pick any of its options, and we would continue to fight this war on our terms. That would, of course, have ensured that the reapers win (even if, by some miracle, we managed to take back earth conventionally, it would have been with immense loss to the fleets, and then what of the other reaper forces in every other system? Earth was but one planet in one system in one cluster, and it took absolutely everything we could muster from all the species and fleets we could get on board to merely get to the point where Shepard could get to the Citadel beam), but at least I would have been able to make that extra moral judgement.

When we destroyed the relay in Arrival, we decimated the Batarian Hegemony, not because we were genocidal maniacs, but because their sacrifice meant we could slow down the reaper attack and have a better chance at saving more lives down the road. This is what we've done again at the end of ME3. Because, regardless of which option we chose, we did, indeed, stop the cycle. We might have done so with various amounts of casualties, depending on the choices we made, and we might be dead, as might most or some or all of our crew. But we stopped it. This was never only about the short term. This was never about only the people in our cycle. We stopped the cycle. Now there will be no more cycles. Many people had to die, and we had to sacrifice a way of life along with those actual lives. But now the galaxy lives on, free from the threat of the reapers that had been there for millennia.

The scale of the reaper threat was such that it was always going to change the galaxy as we knew it. As someone pointed out earlier, while we have been set back by the destruction of the relays, to a massive degree, no doubt, the relays were the reapers' method of directing our evolutionary path. We existed because they allowed it; we developed along the lines that they laid down. Now we are free of the relays, despite the fact that galactic cohesion has been utterly changed, we are finally free, for the first time ever, to evolve technologically along our own paths. For me, the destruction of the relays was an integral part of ending the cycle. It's not nice, it comes with massive immediate consequences, but it was necessary. It might take various groups who are now 'stranded' in various systems years, decades, generations, to get back home, or to colonise new worlds, to build up new governmental structures. We can speculate forever about what the galaxy will look like in 40, 50, 200 years. But at least there is life left to do that. At least the cycles ended. No more will the reapers come a'reaping, threatening the extinction (or 'salvation') of everything. We are responsible for those people left alive to finally shape their own destiny. We did that. And we sacrificed a heck of a lot to manage it, just as we sacrificed the Batarians to slow down the reapers enough to give us that chance.

I don't say all this without also recognising where criticism is needed.

I don't like the war asset system, and I believe it only exists because of the inclusion of multiplayer. I recognise that BioWare wanted to make the consequences of your choices more subtle and seamless than having very obvious cricket bat to the head moments, and that's the ultimate effect of the WA system, but it would have been better if the mechanics of it were hidden from view, instead of a points system being there to draw attention to the fact that this is, indeed, just a game mechanic. There are lots of other things I don't much like, or wish had been done differently. I believe that, had more time been given to the ending, it could have explained things like the Catalyst and Crucible in far more sophisticated and clear ways, and avoided the plot holes and inconsistencies that are causing so many of the issues. I also think that just a handful of things could have made the whole end sequence far more cohesive and satisfying: like a scene showing how Hammer was retrieved and ended up with Joker, a scene showing Joker's reasoning for being seen flying away from the beam, some explanation for just exactly where this planet is that they land on, something explaining more properly just what the destruction of the relays entails in each situation (to avoid the 'but it meant they all went supernova and killed everything and everyone' speculation) and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to actually interact with the Catalyst rather than stand there like a passive observer (although I can see the case for Shepard's passivity being a way of expressing the finality of the situation, of everything else having been utterly exhausted, but in this case I don't think it works adequately).

#172
cachx

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MDT1 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...
That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.
But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.
Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.

Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.


Personally, the only thing I would change about the ending is Joker seemingly running away and your squadmates magically being all in the Normandy.

The other aspects can be rationalized as the OP has done. I have reached pretty similar conclusions myself.

#173
MDT1

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Lord Aesir wrote...
The Reapers have witnessed many cycles, according to what Javik relates the situation they describe occured in his cycle even after years when people thought they could make peace.  From the Reaper perspective, Shepard has only delayed the inevitable.  There wouldn't be much point to arguing.  Might it have been a nice option to have a little more of a debate?  Perhaps, I would have like that, but overall it would be inconsequential


So arguing would be inconsequential, just like when he instantly gave up when sovy told him he has already lost, or when harby tells him his only delaying the inevitable.

Sorry, your right, Shepard is just someone that buys anything and doesn't even try to resist.

#174
Blood-Lord Thanatos

Blood-Lord Thanatos
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MDT1 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.

But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.

Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.


Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.


Perhaps Joker panicked when he saw the energy wave coming at him?

#175
Heimdall

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MDT1 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.

But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.

Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.

That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.


Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.

Because it had no way of knowing it was completly harmless.  They just saw a big wave of energy coming at them.