Lord Aesir wrote...
]I have explained why the Normandy went down and how the galaxy survived all without creating more issues like your ideas do (If the explosion was really destructive, how do you explain the Destruction "Perfect" ending?)
Aha, but they saw it coming, from pluto, leaving no damage behind, interesting.Lord Aesir wrote...
Because it had no way of knowing it was completly harmless. They just saw a big wave of energy coming at them.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.iamthedave3 wrote...
That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.
But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.
Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.
Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.
Modifié par MDT1, 23 mars 2012 - 05:58 .
I'd say that it pretty much implies that Shepard is still alive, and that he/she proved incredibly resistant to the final attempt to indoctrinate him/her.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
]I have explained why the Normandy went down and how the galaxy survived all without creating more issues like your ideas do (If the explosion was really destructive, how do you explain the Destruction "Perfect" ending?)
I can't explain it, it just makes no sense.
Different situation. That was Shepard exchanging a few defiant one liners. Hardly what I'd call a debate. Shepard doesn't have to buy into the Catalyst's logic anymore than he buys into Sovreign's. He just has three options before him. Two of which allow him to disagree with the Catalyst's logic. So yes, Shepard can disagree.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
The Reapers have witnessed many cycles, according to what Javik relates the situation they describe occured in his cycle even after years when people thought they could make peace. From the Reaper perspective, Shepard has only delayed the inevitable. There wouldn't be much point to arguing. Might it have been a nice option to have a little more of a debate? Perhaps, I would have like that, but overall it would be inconsequential
So arguing would be inconsequential, just like when he instantly gave up when sovy told him he has already lost, or when harby tells him his only delaying the inevitable.
Sorry, your right, Shepard is just someone that buys anything and doesn't even try to resist.
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.MDT1 wrote...
Aha, but they saw it coming, from pluto, leaving no damage behind, interesting.Lord Aesir wrote...
Because it had no way of knowing it was completly harmless. They just saw a big wave of energy coming at them.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
That's why I don't think it damaged the Normandy.iamthedave3 wrote...
That one's more of mechanics being distanced from narrative.
But there is that concern; why does the wave damage the Normandy at all? If it does damage the Normandy, then as MDT says, it ought to have inflicted unspeakable devastation on the allied fleet and earth.
Sooner or later you hit the 'space magic' wall, where you just realize the explosion does whatever is convenient for the narrative.
Ok, than simply explain why the normandy tries to escape from somthing that is completly harmless.
There must have been a reason to FTL in the first place.
And its just convenient that the damage from battle suddenly impacts the system when the wave hits it, yeah, explains evrything.
Lord Aesir wrote...
Different situation. That was Shepard exchanging a few defiant one liners. Hardly what I'd call a debate. Shepard doesn't have to buy into the Catalyst's logic anymore than he buys into Sovreign's. He just has three options before him. Two of which allow him to disagree with the Catalyst's logic. So yes, Shepard can disagree.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
The Reapers have witnessed many cycles, according to what Javik relates the situation they describe occured in his cycle even after years when people thought they could make peace. From the Reaper perspective, Shepard has only delayed the inevitable. There wouldn't be much point to arguing. Might it have been a nice option to have a little more of a debate? Perhaps, I would have like that, but overall it would be inconsequential
So arguing would be inconsequential, just like when he instantly gave up when sovy told him he has already lost, or when harby tells him his only delaying the inevitable.
Sorry, your right, Shepard is just someone that buys anything and doesn't even try to resist.
Modifié par Sir Fluffykins, 23 mars 2012 - 06:10 .
But under my explanation, it does.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
]I have explained why the Normandy went down and how the galaxy survived all without creating more issues like your ideas do (If the explosion was really destructive, how do you explain the Destruction "Perfect" ending?)
I can't explain it, it just makes no sense.
No. The Quarians like every other race, used the relays. Not all stars are in proximity to a relay and not all relays are activated. As it stands only a small percentage (single digit range) is explored. Between Earth and Rannoch lies a large unexplored land.InvincibleHero wrote...
So it is 87.6 K light years from Earth to Rannoch?
The quarians have travelled 300 years they know where everything is. Many star clusters are within 24 ly (by codex discharge in 2 days) of sol and it is just a matter of hopping cluster to cluster and mining resources within. It is how they existed for 300 years because obviously stealing from inhabited planets would draw a hostile response.
Tirigon wrote...
ACTUALLY, Fuel isnt required in space travel once you left the planets gravitation. With nothing to slow you down you will drift on forever and only need force, and thus fuel, to slow down and navigate.
Taura-Tierno wrote...
Yes, precisely. I understand a lot of the disappointment, because I'm partly disappointed myself ... but the game aside from the ending was fantastic. And so were the other two games. So I don't get the rage.
Lord Aesir wrote...
I can fully understand why one might not be completly satisfied with the endings. I count myself amongst those that where content with them for the most part.
What I cannot understand and find frustrating is the sheer hysteria and outrage expressed on these boards towards the endings. I can understand claiming you were mislead by the idea of every choice allowing you to construct your ending. Some of you might have been dissapointed that it translated into the war asset system, but I hardly think claiming bioware knowingly attempted to outright decieve you is merited. Consider also that the level of control you had in the ending of Mass Effect 3 was greater than the previous two games. In Mass Effect we had a single choice between two alternatives, saving or killing the council. In Mass Effect 2 we had a similar choice between destroying or saving the Collector Base. In Mass Effect 3 we had three choices, really, this is a repeat of what Bioware has been doing all along. If choice was your complaint you should have brought it up in Mass Effect.
Others complain about the tragic nature of the endings. Really, I would have been more dissapointed by the presence of a happy rainbows and sunshine ending. A magic button that annihilated the Reapers and nothing else would have rendered the Crucible an even worse Deus Ex Machina then it already is. It is the inevitable nature of each ending that makes them work as tragedy and reinforces the idea that the Reapers can't be defeated without sacrifice, which Shepard isn't immune to. A "Happy" ending renders them simple mistakes that could have been avoided.
Some complaints focus on the Normandy's portion of the ending. Admittedly, this is the one portion I wish they had done differently, but I really don't think this scene matters very much. The point is that your crew is alive and kicking, having survived the Reaper war and now they can help rebuild.
That brings me to my last point, some have focused off the incorrect assertion that the allied fleet is stranded in Sol and that this will lead to a war over resources. This is simply untrue. First of all, they still have FTL. It may take years, decades for the quarians and geth, but all of them can return home. Their ships will just need expanded fuel reserves and possibly the equipment to refine fuel. No doubt the quarians can help with that, and the crucible brought with it the galaxy's finest engineers. There will be no food shortage. The Reapers focused on population centers, so it stands to reason that most of the Earth's farmland is intact. The quarians have giant agri-ships for this purpose as well and could probably feed both themselves and the turians given that they left the civilians at home. The geth don't need food. The turians would think of something if the quarians aren't there I suppose. The high casualties of the fleet and the reduced population of the earth actually helps in this regard. As for raw materials, they have an entire solar system and lots of wreckage to salvage from, they'll be fine. Actually a scenario I plan on using for a post-ME3 fanfiction is the allied fleet harvesting advanced FTL tech from Reaper corpses (They did cruise in from dark space after all), but that's just a single wild possibility. The point is that they are far from doomed, it's just going to take them awhile to get home.
Also, the galaxy isn't destroyed. The energy of the relays was coopted into the benign (Unless you chose destruction) energy wave of the crucible rather than exploding outward and obliterating star systems, hence why the color of the "Explosions" changed with each ending.
I'm just trying to express why the outrage has me flustered. Offer your two cents at your leisure.
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
Modifié par MDT1, 23 mars 2012 - 06:06 .
The Reapers won't destroy the crucible, they'll harvest or kill every living thing while Shepard deliberates. Time is lives. There are only three options forward that actually stop the Reapers. The Catalyst allows Shepard to take options that directly fly in the face of the Catalyst's solution and logic, whether it is the Catalyst that is offering them or not is inconsquential. The Catalyst even offers the destruction ending when it believe it will only lead to the end it has been trying to prevent.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Different situation. That was Shepard exchanging a few defiant one liners. Hardly what I'd call a debate. Shepard doesn't have to buy into the Catalyst's logic anymore than he buys into Sovreign's. He just has three options before him. Two of which allow him to disagree with the Catalyst's logic. So yes, Shepard can disagree.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
The Reapers have witnessed many cycles, according to what Javik relates the situation they describe occured in his cycle even after years when people thought they could make peace. From the Reaper perspective, Shepard has only delayed the inevitable. There wouldn't be much point to arguing. Might it have been a nice option to have a little more of a debate? Perhaps, I would have like that, but overall it would be inconsequential
So arguing would be inconsequential, just like when he instantly gave up when sovy told him he has already lost, or when harby tells him his only delaying the inevitable.
Sorry, your right, Shepard is just someone that buys anything and doesn't even try to resist.
No he can't, he can just take one of the options godchild can give him. If he just stays there and does nothing I heard the reapers would destroy the crucible and it's game over.
Why would the Reapers destroy the crucible when godchild controles them?
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
Point= you can see the wave when it hits the normandy. The wave would have been 16 million times brighter when it reachd earth.Lord Aesir wrote...
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
MDT1 wrote...
Point= you can see the wave when it hits the normandy. The wave would have been 16 million times brighter when it reachd earth.Lord Aesir wrote...
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
Honestly even if the explosion would only be a flash of light, the light would still be so strong that it would toast the solar system.
What are you talking about? I was just telling you that Joker had no reason to assume the wave of energy was benign.MDT1 wrote...
Point= you can see the wave when it hits the normandy. The wave would have been 16 million times brighter when it reachd earth.Lord Aesir wrote...
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
Honestly even if the explosion would only be a flash of light, the light would still be so strong that it would toast the solar system.
Lord Aesir wrote...
What are you talking about? I was just telling you that Joker had no reason to assume the wave of energy was benign.MDT1 wrote...
Point= you can see the wave when it hits the normandy. The wave would have been 16 million times brighter when it reachd earth.Lord Aesir wrote...
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
Honestly even if the explosion would only be a flash of light, the light would still be so strong that it would toast the solar system.
Modifié par MDT1, 23 mars 2012 - 06:24 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
I don't think they make no sense.furryrage59 wrote...
The ending to a trilogy/3 games is quite important.
A poor ending that makes no sense can unravel everything before it, add passionate fans who love the game and you get a lot of upset people.
If there are dead teamates, I'm sure it's a glitch. The people you charged the beam of light with are not dead. Coats charged it with you, and he was telling them about how the force was "decimated". Technically speaking that just means one in ten soldiers died. It's possible that there was a time gap in one of the three blackouts experienced by Shepard after Harbinger opened fire that was long enough for the squad to fall back and get extracted by the Normandy. Like I've repeatedly said though, the Normandy part of the ending was the one part I think needs work.furryrage59 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I don't think they make no sense.furryrage59 wrote...
The ending to a trilogy/3 games is quite important.
A poor ending that makes no sense can unravel everything before it, add passionate fans who love the game and you get a lot of upset people.
A lot of people including myself think they make no sense, but i'm glad you enjoy teleporting dead team mates and god children.
Seriously, i wish i could like you can.
Modifié par Lord Aesir, 23 mars 2012 - 06:33 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
Well, I do think this "new tech" will come down to creating their own Mass Relays eventually. It would be difficult to make anything Mass Effect without them.G3rman wrote...
Texansamurai wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I actually thought that was a good stroke. The relays were part of the Reapers' scheme to control organic development. By destroying them and the Citadel you force the organic species to break free of the path set forth by the Reapers.Texansamurai wrote...
I think my biggest objection with the ending is that with the missing components that make Mass effect, Mass effect are now gone. This makes it hard to have EU(Expanded Universe) fan content or stories.
It would be like Starwars suddenly without the force. Would there still be jedi/sith
Same can be applied to ME 3. Will such and such ever return home. Can you still have alliances between species in isolation? Who knows its hard to tell.
Question is, can the organics still have a galactic community without reaper tech? IE Mass Relays or Citadel.
They can develop their own tech, their own fresh start. The "reaper" tech was just the tech of the original race, but humans or any race can do the same thing. It will take time, but its not a death wish.
Lord Aesir wrote...
If there are dead teamates, I'm sure it's a glitch. The people you charged the beam of light with are not dead. Coats charged it with you, and he was telling them about how the force was "decimated". Technically speaking that just means one in ten soldiers died. It's possible that there was a time gap in one of the three blackouts experienced by Shepard after Harbinger opened fire that was long enough for the squad to fall back and get extracted by the Normandy. Like I've repeatedly said though, the Normandy part of the ending was the one part I think needs work.furryrage59 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
I don't think they make no sense.furryrage59 wrote...
The ending to a trilogy/3 games is quite important.
A poor ending that makes no sense can unravel everything before it, add passionate fans who love the game and you get a lot of upset people.
A lot of people including myself think they make no sense, but i'm glad you enjoy teleporting dead team mates and god children.
Seriously, i wish i could like you can.
Lord Aesir wrote...
The "god child" is just an ancient AI or organic-synthetic construct like the Reapers that has long laid dormant within the Citadel. What's not to make sense?
Modifié par MDT1, 23 mars 2012 - 06:37 .
This is where we meet the barrier of not knowing precisely what the wave is. This is a universe with mass effect fields and FTL. It's a mysterious discharge of energy that apparently moves at sub-light speeds. Can you really pretend you have much gronds for applying real world physics to it here?MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
What are you talking about? I was just telling you that Joker had no reason to assume the wave of energy was benign.MDT1 wrote...
Point= you can see the wave when it hits the normandy. The wave would have been 16 million times brighter when it reachd earth.Lord Aesir wrote...
Point? Joker only sees a wave of energy coming at him. He doesn't know what it is.MDT1 wrote...
Radiation is energy, even the waves light would have been 16 million times stronger when it reach Earth btw.Lord Aesir wrote...
Radiation doesn't tear things apart in large explosions, usuallly, but exposure could still kill you. The radiation burst at the collector base was a wave of colored light that left no damage. It still killed everything it touched.
Considering Joker was stressing the system to the absolute maximum at that moment, yes it makes sense that that moment would be the moment the ship finally gave out.
A single candle might not radiate too much energy in the form of light, but a candle that radiates 16 million times the energy of a normal candle would toast you.
Honestly even if the explosion would only be a flash of light, the light would still be so strong that it would toast the solar system.
I am saying, that even if the wave that hit the normandy would have consisted of completly normal harmless red/blue/green light, like the light you see on you monitor, when it passed earth it would still have been bright enough to toast it.
Edit: Just imagine yourself sitting in front of a monitor that is 16 million times brighter than yours.
Easy, an AI goes dormant in order to conserve power or when it's purpose has been completed or to keep itself from being discovered by inquisitive lesser races. It was the function of the Catalyst to set the cycle in motion. It is the function of the Reapers to carry out the conclusion of the cycle. The Catalyst has no role in the harvest.MDT1 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
The "god child" is just an ancient AI or organic-synthetic construct like the Reapers that has long laid dormant within the Citadel. What's not to make sense?
Things don't happen without a reason, why would it lay dormant instead of monitoring the whole situation? It's an Ai (is it?) it isn't as if it has to sleep.
Edit: There is always a sensilbe option and the option you need to take to explain ME3's ending.
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