474 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptilian Rob]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

The last part is the most telling to me. Where asks us to tell people it was good overall. The message is not subtle there. He's worried about sales tanking.

Of course he is! He's put a lot of ****ing money into the game, and a small portion of the fanbase is on a mission to completely ruin it. And yes, it is a small portion. The Facebook group being the biggest representative of size, and that sits at around 70,000 likes. That's 70,000 out 3,000,000! Statistically speaking, that's just over 5%. Normally, any other company in the industry would blow you off and ignore you, yet you're all being paid attention to aggressively, and one of the community workers was even having to block people for personal attacks. Not only that, but you're completely ripping into the work of a man who adored the world he had created, all for 10 minutes of gameplay.

You may very well be one of the worst fanbases in videogaming. You just can't grasp the concepts of how a business is run. You're very, very lucky you're talking to a company who care's about their fanbase. If this were EA directly, or Activision, or Ubisoft, you'd have been sweeped under the rug as a statisticaly minority, which is what you are.

Your ad populum argument is uncorroborated.  If I don't like something I'm going to say so.  Bethesda did not ignore their fans when they said they didn't like the ending to Fallout 3.  Except in Todd Howard's case, he didn't try to cover it up.  He flat out said they screwed up, they'll fix it.  That is how you own up as a creative director.

BINGO!

[xsdob]

"Same as the previous paragraph, projecting and using subtle cutdowns to undermind the issue. Right down to ending the sentence with a reassurance that it will be dealt with."

This describes what your doing to a tee. I've read your post, and I think your letting your passion and your work cross too much into each other and are thus projecting your hatred of bioware onto the statement released.

[N-Seven]

devSin wrote...

Bickering is a waste of time, y'all.

But this entire thread was started in order to promote bickering and to get people angrier.  OP wanted to incite.  Oh and also to strut his 'stuff'.  I TEAR STUFF APART YO!

Ok, I'm out of here.  This thread has unraveled me.  Sigh.   Off to play some multiplayer; working on a Salarian Engineer.  Fun stuff.

[Reptilian Rob]

forsaken gamer wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Is it telling that Forbes said the exact same thing I did, pretty much letter for letter?

Maybe I'm on to something here?

That or plagiarizing.

/kidding

You've found me out! 

[piemanz]

Pericles Redstorm wrote...

Watch and learn, we are allowed to question BioWare/EA and demand a better game.

http://www.youtube.c...p-eggD1Q#t=649s

I knew you were going to link to TB, i'm subscribed to him, and yes sometimes he talks out of his ass.

[TheLastAwakening]

Making too much out of nothing, his statement from a P.R perspective is fine. Further analysis or digging for something more meaningful definitely demonstrates the destructiveness of the communities evolution...
April, is not that far away, what happens if turns out there's no new endings and Bioware is simply rolling out content to clarify the narrative? Hmm... will someone go back to this post and yell lies--really?
Good analysis.

[Reptilian Rob]

N-Seven wrote...

devSin wrote...

Bickering is a waste of time, y'all.

But this entire thread was started in order to promote bickering and to get people angrier.  OP wanted to incite.  Oh and also to strut his 'stuff'.  I TEAR STUFF APART YO!

Ok, I'm out of here.  This thread has unraveled me.  Sigh.   Off to play some multiplayer; working on a Salarian Engineer.  Fun stuff.

I wanted to educate, big differance.

I in no way said "LET'S FLAME RAY!" I even pointed out that he is in fact a kind person outside of this mess. 

[Murkman4683]

Isn't this thread the same as that other PR post that gets updated with a new date and time every ten minutes just so it can stay on top of all the other threads about "my thoughts on Ray" that plague the story and campaign forum.

[N-Seven]

[quote]xsdob wrote...


"Same as the previous paragraph, projecting and using subtle cutdowns to undermind the issue. Right down to ending the sentence with a reassurance that it will be dealt with."

This describes what your doing to a tee. I've read your post, and I think your letting your passion and your work cross too much into each other and are thus projecting your hatred of bioware onto the statement released.[/quote]

And Bingo was his name-o!

Ok now I'm really gone.

[MoonsKisu]

Ilzairspar wrote...

Just remember the wise words of Joker.

"Well, I don't trust anyone who makes more than me."

I'm in wait and see mode.  My money won't go to a DLC till I know that they actually listened to us and heard what we were saying.

That line is so perfect here! 

[savionen]

I'm not sure how on BSN some fail so hard at basic logic with statistics. Must just be troll logic.

Just because only 20k people go to a concert doesn't mean anyone outside of that 20k hates the band's music. If 20% of USA citizens voted in a Presidental election, if 1/2 of that 20% voted Democrat, that doesn't mean that 90% of the country would vote Republican.

[Reptilian Rob]

savionen wrote...

I'm not sure how on BSN some fail so hard at basic logic with statistics. Must just be troll logic.

Just because only 20k people go to a concert doesn't mean anyone outside of that 20k hates the band's music. If 20% of USA citizens voted in a Presidental election, if 1/2 of that 20% voted Democrat, that doesn't mean that 90% of the country would vote Republican.

It's troll's logic, more or less.

[Brawne]

No point argueing over this. In the end people are voting with their wallet. Lets see in few years how that crazy "minority" affected their company.
They should have good example about that with the sales of DA2 and it's DLC.

[Blackmind1]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

The last part is the most telling to me. Where asks us to tell people it was good overall. The message is not subtle there. He's worried about sales tanking.

Of course he is! He's put a lot of ****ing money into the game, and a small portion of the fanbase is on a mission to completely ruin it. And yes, it is a small portion. The Facebook group being the biggest representative of size, and that sits at around 70,000 likes. That's 70,000 out 3,000,000! Statistically speaking, that's just over 5%. Normally, any other company in the industry would blow you off and ignore you, yet you're all being paid attention to aggressively, and one of the community workers was even having to block people for personal attacks. Not only that, but you're completely ripping into the work of a man who adored the world he had created, all for 10 minutes of gameplay.

You may very well be one of the worst fanbases in videogaming. You just can't grasp the concepts of how a business is run. You're very, very lucky you're talking to a company who care's about their fanbase. If this were EA directly, or Activision, or Ubisoft, you'd have been sweeped under the rug as a statisticaly minority, which is what you are.

Your ad populum argument is uncorroborated.  If I don't like something I'm going to say so.  Bethesda did not ignore their fans when they said they didn't like the ending to Fallout 3.  Except in Todd Howard's case, he didn't try to cover it up.  He flat out said they screwed up, they'll fix it.  That is how you own up as a creative director.

MORE DISSECTIONS! YAY!

1) "ad populum...uncorroborated"

"I'm on a videogame forum, using blatantly larger than life words to support my hypothesis of this fine gentleman's statement." I have never seen anything like this on a forum before!

2) "Bethesda did not ignore their fans when they said they didn't like the ending to Fallout 3."

"But dad! Jimmies dad said that he could have THREE bikes for his birthday! I want three, too!" I love these kinds of arguments! "If my friends dad is awesome, why aren't you awesome?" It's likely to make the father feel like **** in the end, and the child seem like a spoiled brat. 

3) "Except in Todd Howard's case, he didn't try to cover it up."

Actually, he released 2 pieces of 800 point DLC before he finally fixed his screw up. Not only that, but Bioware have nowhere near as bad a track record for lying about videogames during pre-release interviews. Todd Howard is the master of hype and lies. He shares a courtroom, built out of solid lies, with the emperor of the lie kingdom itself: Peter Molyneux.

Any more?

(Now I'm trolling a little. This is just too easy. The butthurt is strong in this thread.)

Modifié par Blackmind1, 22 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Qutayba]

PR talk is PR talk. I'm willing to be patient and hold the line firmly but calmly and see what BioWare has planned for April. I want the game to succeed (and to experience that success), so I will give them another chance.

If, like me, you're entertaining a cautious hope that they were planning to announce a real ending (indoc or otherwise) in April, anyway, Ray's statement was just a way to deflect as much negative fallout so they can stick to their schedule. I may be setting myself up for more disappointment, but I don't see much of a difference between hoping they already had a good ending and hoping they make a good ending.

[Tyrzun]

About this 5% nonsense. Just like voting for president barely over 50% usually vote. The rest hold their animosity or bias even though they didn't vote.

When it comes to a game people don't like, they usually just don't buy from that publisher again. It's that simple. They vote with their $$$. They won't take the time to explain why, they just do it. Same goes for most products.

The vast majority of online user reviews are poor. That has never happened before to a so called AAA title. Long story short, it's a lot more than 5% and anyone that thinks it isn't is only kidding yourself.

Never before have companies allowed opened box returns like Amazon for instance. They realize the false advertising that was done and want to not be involved in it. <----- That is proper treatment of your customers when you have wronged them. If it weren't a BIG issue Amazon wouldn't have done that.

[ReynoldsXD3]

i am not counting on bioware to change their mind.
I am counting on EA forcing the issue. 

[nikola8]

Considering the use of the phrases "more clarity", "further closure", "maintain artistic integrity", and "I believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team", I would be very surprised if the April announcement is for DLC that replaces the ending. I'm betting, based on Dr. Ray's blog, that they're going to simply create DLC that explains the current endings. I doubt that the announcement in April is going to please everyone.

[Reptilian Rob]

ReynoldsXD3 wrote...

i am not counting on bioware to change their mind.
I am counting on EA forcing the issue. 

Maybe EA's evil can work for us this time around? J/K

[darknessmyown]

Feels like no matter what anyone types, it's easier to take if you read it with a voice matching the portrait they are using, something I have been doing most of the time since coming to the forums to share my thoughts about all of this. Makes it easier to pass by the haters with nothing real to say.

Thank you for helping to clarify the PR speak, Reptilian Rob, though I felt like we were being brushed off, promised nothing real, and almost insulted from reading it myself the first time. Bioware just seems so intent on doing nothing as long as they can and that seems a sad fact the more I think about it.

Modifié par darknessmyown, 22 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[Blackmind1]

Tyrzun wrote...

About this 5% nonsense. Just like voting for president barely over 50% usually vote. The rest hold their animosity or bias even though they didn't vote.

When it comes to a game people don't like, they usually just don't buy from that publisher again. It's that simple. They vote with their $$$. They won't take the time to explain why, they just do it. Same goes for most products.

The vast majority of online user reviews are poor. That has never happened before to a so called AAA title. Long story short, it's a lot more than 5% and anyone that thinks it isn't is only kidding yourself.

Never before have companies allowed opened box returns like Amazon for instance. They realize the false advertising that was done and want to not be involved in it. <----- That is proper treatment of your customers when you have wronged them. If it weren't a BIG issue Amazon wouldn't have done that.

If this has all been such an injustice to you, why are you still here? It's like going to live with your abusive father, only due to the fact that he might buy some cool toys every now and then, but the rest of the time, he's being abusive. You could live with your mother, but your mother doesn't give you cool things, so it isn't worth it.

I really don't understand the mindset of the people in this thread, at all.

Modifié par Blackmind1, 22 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[DemGeth]

Ugh....


Why do Bioware statements get such in-depth analysis. You know the simplest explanation is usually the right one

They simply thought they made a great game. They poured their hearts into it. They see the fans reaction and will incorporate ending exposition into the dlc.

[Tyrzun]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

The last part is the most telling to me. Where asks us to tell people it was good overall. The message is not subtle there. He's worried about sales tanking.

Of course he is! He's put a lot of ****ing money into the game, and a small portion of the fanbase is on a mission to completely ruin it. And yes, it is a small portion. The Facebook group being the biggest representative of size, and that sits at around 70,000 likes. That's 70,000 out 3,000,000! Statistically speaking, that's just over 5%. Normally, any other company in the industry would blow you off and ignore you, yet you're all being paid attention to aggressively, and one of the community workers was even having to block people for personal attacks. Not only that, but you're completely ripping into the work of a man who adored the world he had created, all for 10 minutes of gameplay.

You may very well be one of the worst fanbases in videogaming. You just can't grasp the concepts of how a business is run. You're very, very lucky you're talking to a company who care's about their fanbase. If this were EA directly, or Activision, or Ubisoft, you'd have been sweeped under the rug as a statisticaly minority, which is what you are.

Your ad populum argument is uncorroborated.  If I don't like something I'm going to say so.  Bethesda did not ignore their fans when they said they didn't like the ending to Fallout 3.  Except in Todd Howard's case, he didn't try to cover it up.  He flat out said they screwed up, they'll fix it.  That is how you own up as a creative director.

MORE DISSECTIONS! YAY!

1) "ad populum...uncorroborated"

"I'm on a videogame forum, using blatantly larger than life words to support my hypothesis of this fine gentleman's statement." I have never seen anything like this on a forum before!

2) "Bethesda did not ignore their fans when they said they didn't like the ending to Fallout 3."

"But dad! Jimmies dad said that he could have THREE bikes for his birthday! I want three, too!" I love these kinds of arguments! "If my friends dad is awesome, why aren't you awesome?" It's likely to make the father feel like **** in the end, and the child seem like a spoiled brat. 

3) "Except in Todd Howard's case, he didn't try to cover it up."

Actually, he released 2 pieces of 800 point DLC before he finally fixed his screw up. Not only that, but Bioware have nowhere near as bad a track record for lying about videogames during pre-release interviews. Todd Howard is the master of hype and lies. He shares a courtroom, built out of solid lies, with the emperor of the lie kingdom itself: Peter Molyneux.

Any more?

(Now I'm trolling a little. This is just too easy. The butthurt is strong in this thread.)

FYI you're arguments are circular logic and weak, and you cannot defend false advertising which is why you haven't.  

ALL that being said... dude you had me laughing my tail off with that one!!!!  NICE!!!!

The emperor of the lie kingdom... so true!  LOL  However, Peter usually says X feature didn't make it into the game before release.  Still, I know better than to buy his products without my due dilligence.  

Still the best zinger on these boards in days.  Kudos. 

Modifié par Tyrzun, 22 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[Darth Spike]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

GoblinSapper wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
*SNIP*

You know I can't help but wonder if Bioware anticipated that their fanbase was made up of the equivilant of the Political A-Team. atghunter the former PR Damage Control Rep, Reptilian Rob the Speech Analyst...

"Pack the car, we're leaving in five! LOAD UP GENTLEMEN!"

can i be the 'Mr. T' of the group. I can smack them down with logic and clarity.

[Murkman4683]

Poor reviews on Metacritic has never been done on AAA title before, um I believe the same people that attacked DA2 on metacritic destoryed ME3. 90% of those reviews were done the same day the game released, ME3 was hate bombed on Metacritic, which to most of the population has become a cesspool of users creating multiple accounts just destroy a game, movie, etc rating.