474 réponses à ce sujet

[mebtru]

That is what i thought when i read his comment, he still beleives that they made everything right and the fans are crazy, i think this is the part that i disliked most.

Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We're already working hard to do that.

If they knew how much player control and OWNERSHIP of the story we had, why did they take that from us, it is one of the biggest disappointment the fans have.

When i first read his statement, my first thought was "They wont give us a different ending", they wont give us back how mass effect work, where everything you did will affect the ending, they will just release some dlc, to EXPLAIN the ending, and that imho will be the final nail on the coffin. 

I hope i didnt make a mistake by not returning the game.

[Flytricks]

I've poured over 200 dollars into this "just a video game" as I know all of you did if you played all three. If they dont want so much grief about turning out an unfinished product then don't charge me so much for it. If I just bought a ticket for 8 bucks a soda and a bag of popcorn and wasted 2 hours of my life I probably could have just shook it off and said to hell with it. Also it really doesnt take a genius to see that ol' Ray was pretty peeved about the whole thing. I mean, what's with the profanity there are kids playing this game and reading the forums too. I've posted many times in these forums and have not had one bad thing to say about bioware or their employees. I've seen a few jokes about them swimming in our money but nothing to hurtfull. But when I read that I swear it felt like he was giving me the finger. For me its not the developers but the investors and publishers pushing them to release unfinished sub par games so they can see a return on their money as soon as possable. It's been a disease in the gaming industry for a long time now and it finally turned around and bit someone in the butt.

[Tyrzun]

RedShft wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

Actually you did have a purchase agreement. 

I guess I'll have to break out the analogy again.

You got to the store looking for a Blu-Ray player, you tell the sales person, he says this one over here has all the features you want in a Blu-Ray player, you pay for it and take it home, you open the box and a CD player is inside.

IS that a problem?  Yes it is and you will not say it isn't.  You'd go right back up to the store and demand your money back or the Blu-Ray player you paid for.  <---- That's all we are doing.  That's it.

That is what Bioware did, they knew their product did not have the features they advertised and they did not tell their customers.  That's wrong. 

At any point before release day these same people I quoted above could have come out and said guys... we gave you 3 generic endings and we leave everything up in the air and we didn't tie up any of the loose endings like we said we would.  <----- they kept their mouths shout knowing they didn't deliver.  That's wrong.

Now any other business, Best Buy, Walmart, would look in the box and apologize and give you your money back or the Blu-Ray player you wanted and most would offer a gift card or something to make it up to you.  What Bioware is doing instead is hiding behind artist integrity.  That does not make what they did ok and has nothing to do with it.  It was wrong.  <---- This last thing is what realy really bothers me. 

Poor decisions happen, dead lines are missed, any number of reasons could be why we didn't get what we paid for, but refusing to admit we didn't get what we paid for is totally unacceptable.

I agree with your example, but there's a difference between a quote from an interview and actual advertisements stating that "This is a DVD player and it rocks.". I agree that as customers we should expect to get the product advertised but I feel it's going a bit far to cite quotes from developers as evidence towards features in the game.

Lastly, I agree with your point about artistic integrity. It's hard for me to accept video games as art since I am a classical musician. I understand that there are developers that really believe that Video games are an art form and I try to respect that. However, I have a problem when artistic integrity is seemingly used as a shield for an ending that isn't wrapped up properly.

Consider this.  Those interviews are on websites that Bioware/EA pay money to, for the very purpose of advertising.  See the problem?  

Now that person is a Bioware represantive in an official capacity while giving the interview about what features will be in the game.  So, Bioware said that feature would be in the game.  While doing so on a website they pay advertising money to with the sole purpose of generating hype for their product, which is what advertising is.  To get the word out, advetise the product, is the reason they do these inteviews right?

I see what you're saying I do, but in this instance I see it as one and the same.

Now me personally, if I had a job where I was doing interviews and I said something to customers that I knew later wasn't going to happen.  I'd tweet or email or do another interview and let them all know, things have changed.  To me thats business ethics and it didn't happen.

My guess is it would have cost them many sales to say that and they knew it.  My guess is it could have possibly jeopardized anyones job that might have let us know.  That's pure speculation.  That's why my issue with Bioware is even larger now that the man who wouldn't lose his job Rey, didn't fix this and admit what happened. 

Most of us would have understood we ran out of time, we thought it would be ok and its obviously not, we ran out of funding, we ran out of man power to meet the deadline, etc...  We would have accepted any number of reasons why it happens, but notthe  take it and like it because that's what we intended all along.

Saying they intended to not deliver what they said they would?  Seriously!?  He came out and said that... It's just dumbfounding.  We purposefully chose not to give you that... wow just wow.  Same thing ther other Bioware reps have said.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 22 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[alex13abc]

Great post OP. Nice to see people keep their eyes open when BW keeps sending their trite and patronizing PR statements.

[Quietness]

@Tyrzun

or what would have been better is they push the release date back (assuming they could)

[Dridengx]

Coder4Hire wrote...

At this point I've given up.

I'm just waiting to see how many people blindly buy dlc when it comes out, after swearing it off

Wouldn't it be something if the DLC has 44k purchases?

[Tyrzun]

Quietness wrote...

@Tyrzun

or what would have been better is they push the release date back (assuming they could)

Good point.  I missed that one.

[KeldorKatarn]

N-Seven wrote...

This community is embarrassing itself more by the minute. FFS already, just chill. Will the freaking out and paranoia ever end? It's a video game people.

It's a product I spent 75 bucks on, based on statements that were pure lies alright? I'm a customer. I have some rights. I don't give a shi** whether this is a video game or a lawnmower.

Also the OP is absolutely correct. I've ripped apart some talks like this. Everone ever taking a rethorics course can see what's going on in that little speech. It's crap from start to finish and I find it insulting.

[DemGeth]

I think the best thing you can do is not to buy anymore of their products after such insult!

[KeldorKatarn]

DemGeth wrote...

I think the best thing you can do is not to buy anymore of their products after such insult!

Which I won't until I hear an appology and get what I was promised. Otherwise this thing goes right back to amazon and Bioware can sell their crap elsewhere.

[DemGeth]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

I think the best thing you can do is not to buy anymore of their products after such insult!

Which I won't until I hear an appology and get what I was promised. Otherwise this thing goes right back to amazon and Bioware can sell their crap elsewhere.

Way to go man

[KeldorKatarn]

Flytricks wrote...

I mean, what's with the profanity there are kids playing this game and reading the forums too.

Exactly. There are kids reading this and playing this. Kids who migth have spent the little money they could save for this, based on promises and got this.

These same kids now get a very nice lesson here: You know we told you this great story about The Shepard and how he's so honest and has so much integrity and stands by his decisions? Well we killed him off, get over it ok? In the real world you lie and much as you can and then hide your face as long as you can to get away with it. Want another story about "the sheppard" now, kid?

Integrity my ass...

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 22 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[KeldorKatarn]

DemGeth wrote...

Way to go man

Working in this industry has always been a dream of mine and I won't let companies like them ruin it for me.

This is not how you do it guys! You have the best job in the world, you create worlds for players, you can make millions happy for several hours and maybe give them happy memories for life! Do you cherish those people? No, you bend them over and **** them up their ***.

Can you really go to work every morning KNOWING that there are over 50,000 people in here hating what you did to their beloved world? Reading about people crying, reading about people not wanting to play any more games after this. People who feel they lost something wonderful, something they were so looking forward to, something they truly loved.

Does that honestly not for a moment make you want to get out here, hug those people and say "Sorry folks that we screwed this up, we'll bust our asses to make up for it"

You guys make me sorry I'm working in the same business as you. Seriously...

You know, up until a few weeks ago I'd have loved to someday work with you guys on a game, moving to Canada, helping to do the next Mass Effect. Well you cured me of that nightmare. Tell you one thing.. they day my company ever pulls a stunt like this is the day I quit.

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 22 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[Three-EyedGarlic]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

Way to go man

Working in this industry has always been a dream of mine and I won't let companies like them ruin it for me.

This is not how you do it guys! You have the best job in the world, you create worlds for players, you can make millions happy for several hours and maybe give them happy memories for life! Do you cherish those people? No, you bend them over and **** them up their ***.

Can you really go to work every morning KNOWING that there are over 50,000 people in here hating what you did to their beloved world? Reading about people crying, reading about people not wanting to play any more games after this. People who feel they lost something wonderful, something they were so looking forward to, something they truly loved.

Does that honestly not for a moment make you want to get out here, hug those people and say "Sorry folks that we screwed this up, we'll bust our asses to make up for it"

You guys make me sorry I'm working in the same business as you. Seriously...

Hey dude, you have to remember the chain of command in this industry. We've heard nothing from the creators, nor will we. We don't know if the ending was intended as the PR guys say, or if they ran out of time and 90% of what they wanted to put in suddenly hit the cutting room floor. From the interviews prior to launch it certainly sounded like they wanted what we wanted, and that they wanted to deliver. However, the quality of the ending does not match the quality of the rest of the series (Unless you run with the indoc theory and we've yet to see the actual ending, and then sans the evil of it, it's brilliant), making me very suspicious of a terrible case of executive meddling.
Either way, the guys making the games are too busy working on the games. Who knows if they even touch the forums. In most companies, they don't. They know better! Usually the PR folks read them, then tell the devs what to do in the next weekly or monthly.
Either way, the devs are always at the mercy of the suits and slaves to the bottomline. There's a reason indie gaming is on the rise and smaller companies like DoubleFine are challenging the role of publisher.

[KeldorKatarn]

Three-EyedGarlic wrote...

Hey dude, you have to remember the chain of command in this industry.

Trust me. I know all about chains of command. And by now people hardly have to hit the forums to see what's going on here.

Wanna talk about integrity, courage and strength? The oh so quoted virtues of Bioware? If they had any of that they'd stand up and say "Either we fix this or I quit".

There's more than one developer out there to work for you know... That's what's called work ethics. If you just do any crap as long as you're payed, well poor you.

[DVZ]

I don't want speeches.

I don't want statements.

I don't want Twitter posts.

I want a new ending.

/Thread

[Auralius Carolus]

DemGeth wrote...

I think the best thing you can do is not to buy anymore of their products after such insult!

^^This^^

The OP did a good job in breaking down this matter for those who didn't have the time/experience, but I've seen enough of this crap in politics to practically smell the venom. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more insulted by the pathetic attempt to use linguistics to mask a backlash than anything. It strikes me as more of an issue of pride in authority and disrespect toward the intended audience than fear.

[LegendaryBlade]

Dridengx wrote...

Coder4Hire wrote...

At this point I've given up.

I'm just waiting to see how many people blindly buy dlc when it comes out, after swearing it off

Wouldn't it be something if the DLC has 44k purchases?

It WOULD be something...to pirate

[RiouHotaru]

KRAETZNER wrote...
*bigmclargehugesnip*

Reguritating the same series of quotes over and over again doesn't help your argument, nor make it any more valid or true.

[RiouHotaru]

So, is it standard policy now to over-analyze and "deconstruct" everything anyone from BW says now? Because I think you guys are reading way, WAY between the lines looking for something that is not there.

[KeldorKatarn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

So, is it standard policy now to over-analyze and "deconstruct" everything anyone from BW says now? Because I think you guys are reading way, WAY between the lines looking for something that is not there.

Is it standard policy of BW now to hide behind phrases and not talk openly to us customers anymore? They were great at that when they still needed to sell this cap to us.

[dorktainian]

The Mass Effect 3 ending is akin to Corporate Suicide.

1. You give a terrible ending. No reasoning behind it and alienate your consumer base.
2. You refuse any criticism aimed at you because it is 'Art'.
3. You tell your customers you are listening when clearly that is not exactly the case.
4. The Customer is ALWAYS right. Remember that one Bioware. It's the most important one of all.

[Xerkysz]

N-Seven wrote...

 It's a video game people.

I think in you saying that, you've angered the community more than the endings did.
*High five*

[KeldorKatarn]

N-Seven wrote...

 It's a video game people.

You buy your little boy a toy for christmas, one that he's been looking forward to all year, and he has several hours of fun with it, but then it breaks apart due to construction failure and you boy is crying over it.

You call the support and tell them about it and that you'd like the thing fixed. Do you accept the argument "Hey, it's just a toy..."?

Non-argument alright? We're not little kids, we're mostly adults, working everyday, doing our best to deliver good products to our customers. We expect the same in return when we buy something. The gaming business is one of the biggest markets in the world today and people pay good money for it. We don't care if it is "just" a game alright? We payed money for it and we want the product we were promised, and this clearly isn't it.

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 22 mars 2012 - 08:18 .

[KingKhan03]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

 It's a video game people.

You buy your little boy a toy for christmas, one that he's been looking forward to all year, and he has several hours of fun with it, but then it breaks apart due to construction failure and you boy is crying over it.

You call the support and tell them about it and that you'd like the thing fixed. Do you accept the argument "Hey, it's just a toy..."?

Non-argument alright? We're not little kids, we're mostly adults, working everyday, doing our best to deliver good products to our customers. We expect the same in return when we buy something. The gaming business is one of the biggest markets in the world today and people pay good money for it. We don't care if it is "just" a game alright? We payed money for it and we want the product we were promised, and this clearly isn't it.

+100000