474 réponses à ce sujet

[Computron2000]

Drinkalot wrote...
because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers.

Actually he can. Developers are employees that you can interact because they gether in a fixed location you have access to. The customers are spread out over a large area where you cannot talk to each.

Basic management here would be to go down to Bioware's development location, call a company wide meeting (with drinks and snacks <-shows some sincerity) then kick off with the standard "I'm sure all of you know whats going on" spiel then tell them how important they are and it is not their fault. Claim ownership of the fault itself (because really there's no negative impact from the lower ranks to someone so high other than them resigning). Tell them no matter what happens from now on, they still made the grandest game in history and were the first ones to have the game events happen depending on how the sequel and the sequel before that happened.

To the customer, you have to adopt a reconcilatory tone (so they can shut up). Its not difficult actually and a lot of his statement can be reused. Talk about how the fans are important, do not talk about the critics or the devs. Say how the reaction was understandable (but no specifics or you get tied down) and follow up with a sentence that garners general approval such as the following "I'm truly believe that no matter whether or not someone likes the ending, we can all say Mass Effect 3 was fantastic to play for most of the game." then do a standard plea for time referencing how "We want to make your journey in the mass effect universe for the 3 core games complete" but again no promised time line and covering you as* legally by pointing only to the 3 core games (not dlc, other spin offs etc) and being vague about "complete". Further flesh out the statement and avoid negative connotations and its done

Then you've covered all bases, gotten the fan believers to shut up and help shut up others and it delays the thing for a bit more. The only problem will be those that start pointing out nothing concrete and no timelines were given. To handle these people, it will depend on what Bioware REALLY is going to do.

[NReed106]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

The only part of his post that I actually believed was the April timeline, as vague as it is. At least we have some sort of period of time to expect...something. I'm not sure, but hopefully something more concrete than what we have now.

Nicely done, btw.

Know this, and know it well. I believe Ray is a great guy and a fantastic person, but right now he is scared as hell. 

This letter confirms it. 

BW should be, as quoted in another thread I read "there is no enemy worse than an old friend" and their loyal fanbase is standing at a crossroads right now

[ZLurps]

Abreu Road wrote...

The ending is so terrible that its unbelievable is written by the same people who wrote Tuchanka, Rannoch and many other fantastic moments.

They have to admit it. The ending was probably imposed by 2 or 3 people and not by the entire writers team.

It's unbelievable that the writers of Tuchanka, Mordin, Legion, Rannoch and many other would let that plot hole filled ending.

According to his own tweet, Mac Walters wrote the ending, everything after the Cerberus space station IIRC.

[GoblinSapper]

Computron2000 wrote...

Drinkalot wrote...
because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers.

Actually he can. Developers are employees that you can interact because they gether in a fixed location you have access to. The customers are spread out over a large area where you cannot talk to each.

Basic management here would be to go down to Bioware's development location, call a company wide meeting (with drinks and snacks <-shows some sincerity) then kick off with the standard "I'm sure all of you know whats going on" spiel then tell them how important they are and it is not their fault. Claim ownership of the fault itself (because really there's no negative impact from the lower ranks to someone so high other than them resigning). Tell them no matter what happens from now on, they still made the grandest game in history and were the first ones to have the game events happen depending on how the sequel and the sequel before that happened.

To the customer, you have to adopt a reconcilatory tone (so they can shut up). Its not difficult actually and a lot of his statement can be reused. Talk about how the fans are important, do not talk about the critics or the devs. Say how the reaction was understandable (but no specifics or you get tied down) and follow up with a sentence that garners general approval such as the following "I'm truly believe that no matter whether or not someone likes the ending, we can all say Mass Effect 3 was fantastic to play for most of the game." then do a standard plea for time referencing how "We want to make your journey in the mass effect universe for the 3 core games complete" but again no promised time line and covering you as* legally by pointing only to the 3 core games (not dlc, other spin offs etc) and being vague about "complete". Further flesh out the statement and avoid negative connotations and its done

Then you've covered all bases, gotten the fan believers to shut up and help shut up others and it delays the thing for a bit more. The only problem will be those that start pointing out nothing concrete and no timelines were given. To handle these people, it will depend on what Bioware REALLY is going to do.

It shames me that this would so easily manipulate me and make me happy

[Everwarden]

N-Seven wrote...
It's a video game people.

It's a product, and it will be judged accordingly. 

[RevanchistStenn]

If this company wants to fall on its sword for the sake of art, I can appreciate that. That's basically what it looks like they're doing in the end. But tacking on extra bits at the end, and sending out a "sorry we're not good enough some people" letter....Eh, I really don't see the point.

At this point, either suck it up and make a change and just move on, or tell us definitively, "what we made is what you get. If you don't like it, that's your problem." Any middle ground on this is just aggravating at this point. I've moved on to other games now. I can easily not come back.

[Zing Freelancer]

Thanks for such wonderful analysis, very helpful to have someone elses opinion on the matter.

Modifié par Zing Freelancer, 22 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[Reptilian Rob]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Oh great. Guess the 'look at me I'm more important than anyone else because I can throw more dirt on BW then you' contest started when I wasn't looking?

If I wasn't that lazy I'd find out what you work and do some nice analysis of your works, just, you know, 'to get the truth out'.

Go right ahead, I have no problems admitting to faulty work and I am always happy to re-work anything I have written!

[piemanz]

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

[Drinkalot]

Computron2000 wrote...

Drinkalot wrote...
because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers.

Actually he can. Developers are employees that you can interact because they gether in a fixed location you have access to. The customers are spread out over a large area where you cannot talk to each.

Basic management here would be to go down to Bioware's development location, call a company wide meeting (with drinks and snacks <-shows some sincerity) then kick off with the standard "I'm sure all of you know whats going on" spiel then tell them how important they are and it is not their fault. Claim ownership of the fault itself (because really there's no negative impact from the lower ranks to someone so high other than them resigning). Tell them no matter what happens from now on, they still made the grandest game in history and were the first ones to have the game events happen depending on how the sequel and the sequel before that happened.

To the customer, you have to adopt a reconcilatory tone (so they can shut up). Its not difficult actually and a lot of his statement can be reused. Talk about how the fans are important, do not talk about the critics or the devs. Say how the reaction was understandable (but no specifics or you get tied down) and follow up with a sentence that garners general approval such as the following "I'm truly believe that no matter whether or not someone likes the ending, we can all say Mass Effect 3 was fantastic to play for most of the game." then do a standard plea for time referencing how "We want to make your journey in the mass effect universe for the 3 core games complete" but again no promised time line and covering you as* legally by pointing only to the 3 core games (not dlc, other spin offs etc) and being vague about "complete". Further flesh out the statement and avoid negative connotations and its done

Then you've covered all bases, gotten the fan believers to shut up and help shut up others and it delays the thing for a bit more. The only problem will be those that start pointing out nothing concrete and no timelines were given. To handle these people, it will depend on what Bioware REALLY is going to do.

This is very good. Are you in politics?
Last sentence of yours is what I wanted to say as well. Make a conclusion after BioWare did something, not said something especially so vague.

[Reptilian Rob]

piemanz wrote...

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

Personal attacks are not needed, a moderator already addressed this yesterday. Say something contructive or objective, or leave. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 22 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[sarahann62380]

I truly want to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, I really do. I want them to just be stalling for time before they actually say what is being done or what has been done. I still have hope for the epic ending I was promised that was related to the choices I've made throughout this trilogy. But maybe everything that comes out now is just PR spin, which just makes me sad and makes me feel even more depleted. But I won't give up, not just yet. I'll hang on until I know for sure what's going to happen. And then I will decide where to take my money. Until then, I will play DA2--yep, you heard me.

[Drinkalot]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

piemanz wrote...

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

Personal attacks are not needed, a moderator already addressed this yesterday. Say something contructive or objective, or leave. 

Rob, I did ask you a question in my previous post on page 17. Care to answer it?

[piemanz]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

piemanz wrote...

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

Personal attacks are not needed, a moderator already addressed this yesterday. Say something contructive or objective, or leave. 

Actually i'm objecting becasue I think you created the title to give your opinion more weight than it deserves, and to forward your cause.

Modifié par piemanz, 22 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Drinkalot wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

piemanz wrote...

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

Personal attacks are not needed, a moderator already addressed this yesterday. Say something contructive or objective, or leave. 

Rob, I did ask you a question in my previous post on page 17. Care to answer it?

One sec, getting to it!

[Reptilian Rob]

piemanz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

piemanz wrote...

No offense OP, but if you really do what you say you do for a living, then you're not very good at it. I only needed to read it once to come to roughly the same conclusions.

Also, this would seem to suggest you needed a few hints.

Personal attacks are not needed, a moderator already addressed this yesterday. Say something contructive or objective, or leave. 

Actually i'm objecting becasue I think you created the title to give you opinion more weight than it deserves, and to forward your cause.

Irony is an understatement here. 

Remember what Hudson said?

[firebreather19]

I don't get it. I mean...sometimes people just write things, and don't over-obsess about the underlying meanings.

[Yuoaman]

Can't believe I missed this thread before - very interesting stuff, and it makes quite a bit of sense once it's pointed out.

[Reptilian Rob]

Drinkalot wrote...

Ok, first things first. Rob, can't argue about your OP, obviously you know a great deal about analyzing speeches, however I still think Ray is trying to walk on the line here, not taking sides, because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers. But again the speech is pretty vague, which is a trick I guess, so that people can interpret it differently.

On a separate note, CEO's goal number one is to maximize shareholders' profit and then comes everything else. And because he is under EA, it is very likely that they decide what he is going to say, so I am not quite sure what everyone expected him to say other than what he said.

Anyways, firstly I wanted to ask you, Rob, what did you try to achieve with this analysis? I mean by posting it here? In his speech he said that Bioware will respond to issues with ending in a fair and timely manner. That's it. So, for example, if actually nothing happens or if the new DLC does not address the issues with endings, then you can say "He was lying from the beginning" and so on and so forth. So to me, this post just escalates the anger, hatred and other negative emotions in people.

Secondly, and this is to everyone, who says that BioWare, and associated people in their interviews promised that ME3 will have 16 different endings, have you never doubted their words? Have you never asked yourself that it might be just a marketing trick, since everyone wants choices in video games nowadays? Have you never asked yourself whether it can be not true, have you never said to yourself "C'mon 16 different endings? Really? Bull****..". If you never asked yourself, if you never questioned their words, then it is very naive.
Besides, may be it has been said many times now, but I want to repeat, in previous games, ME1 & ME2, choices and consequences (endings) were quite simple save council, don't save council, destroy base, don't destroy base. So in the third game it's all about whether Reapers win or loose, so what kind of wildly, vastly and extremely different endings did you expect, because you must have expected something as you are so upset? And I am not trying to mock you with these words "wildly, vastly and extremely", these are the words I read in the forums, written by people who were upset with endings.

And lastly, people get hyped, excited, and begin to expect the epicness of epic proportions, and I myself is the same. Although I try to avoid it now, as much as possible, so that in the end I am not that upset. The thing is, there are so many posts in the forum now, where people discuss, how they would've done it and what they would've wanted to be in the ending and with BioWare sort of saying that they will fix endings or address issues, people get hyped, excited again and expect certain things in the ending, which they most likely not going to see there. So what I am trying to say is, do not expect much.

Ok, just read your stuff, sorry for the wait.

Good stuff, and I agree with a lot of it; especially the part where EA is concerned with it's shares. Most likely that is what is happening and I can't dock Ray for being helpless.

However, it's one thing to prepare a statement but another altoghether to make it seems underhanded and cynical towards the people who make those shares fluctuate. To a greater degree to lie about your product to influance gains, it's shameful and not right at all. I would liked him to address that instead of just throwing out a typical PR push, yet again. 

What I tried to achieve here is a counterpoint to Ray's statement, I may be wrong as stated a lot in this topic. But it's good to proivde a good baseline of probablility and knowledge. It gets people thinking and questioning things, as Bioware was trying to do with their speculative ending (hint). However, I do admit I'm not the best at this and quite new to this form of explication. Though I do think it helps to have someone with background to maybe clear things up. 

[Aerevane]

Well, I can add to this. I agree with the OP. Most of my job involves reading through policy papers and I often encounter political statements etc. I've been a politician myself (and a grad student Political Science and Public Management) and I know quite a bit about ambiguous and hollow messages. The moment I read the good doctor's message was the moment I knew it was all PR spin.

Good job summing it up OP, although if you take a good close look at the discourse the doctor is choosing, it's even more malign than you suggest. Emphasizing the negative aspects, suggesting we're a small movement, not addressing the core arguments etc. It's basically what any spin doctor would advice you to do; namely, not responding directly to a group or individual, but picking the message that at best only scrape the true issue at hand and turning it around into a mumbo jumbo of promising sounding non-commitments.

[Reptilian Rob]

Aerevane wrote...

Well, I can add to this. I agree with the OP. Most of my job involves reading through policy papers and I often encounter political statements etc. I've been a politician myself (and a grad student Political Science and Public Management) and I know quite a bit about ambiguous and hollow messages. The moment I read the good doctor's message was the moment I knew it was all PR spin.

Good job summing it up OP, although if you take a good close look at the discourse the doctor is choosing, it's even more malign than you suggest. Emphasizing the negative aspects, suggesting we're a small movement, not addressing the core arguments etc. It's basically what any spin doctor would advice you to do; namely, not responding directly to a group or individual, but picking the message that at best only scrape the true issue at hand and turning it around into a mumbo jumbo of promising sounding non-commitments.

I tried to keep it as nuetral as possible, I didnt want it to sound like a hate rant. 

But you are correct. 

[jarms48]

This is a very interesting article.

[Loopeeeeeee]

i'm really proud gamers are waking up the sham that the gaming industry has become. more so proud more are so vocal about it.

[BARRAGE 74]

Overall a good read.  Thanks for posting.

[Drinkalot]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Drinkalot wrote...

Ok, first things first. Rob, can't argue about your OP, obviously you know a great deal about analyzing speeches, however I still think Ray is trying to walk on the line here, not taking sides, because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers. But again the speech is pretty vague, which is a trick I guess, so that people can interpret it differently.

On a separate note, CEO's goal number one is to maximize shareholders' profit and then comes everything else. And because he is under EA, it is very likely that they decide what he is going to say, so I am not quite sure what everyone expected him to say other than what he said.

Anyways, firstly I wanted to ask you, Rob, what did you try to achieve with this analysis? I mean by posting it here? In his speech he said that Bioware will respond to issues with ending in a fair and timely manner. That's it. So, for example, if actually nothing happens or if the new DLC does not address the issues with endings, then you can say "He was lying from the beginning" and so on and so forth. So to me, this post just escalates the anger, hatred and other negative emotions in people.

Secondly, and this is to everyone, who says that BioWare, and associated people in their interviews promised that ME3 will have 16 different endings, have you never doubted their words? Have you never asked yourself that it might be just a marketing trick, since everyone wants choices in video games nowadays? Have you never asked yourself whether it can be not true, have you never said to yourself "C'mon 16 different endings? Really? Bull****..". If you never asked yourself, if you never questioned their words, then it is very naive.
Besides, may be it has been said many times now, but I want to repeat, in previous games, ME1 & ME2, choices and consequences (endings) were quite simple save council, don't save council, destroy base, don't destroy base. So in the third game it's all about whether Reapers win or loose, so what kind of wildly, vastly and extremely different endings did you expect, because you must have expected something as you are so upset? And I am not trying to mock you with these words "wildly, vastly and extremely", these are the words I read in the forums, written by people who were upset with endings.

And lastly, people get hyped, excited, and begin to expect the epicness of epic proportions, and I myself is the same. Although I try to avoid it now, as much as possible, so that in the end I am not that upset. The thing is, there are so many posts in the forum now, where people discuss, how they would've done it and what they would've wanted to be in the ending and with BioWare sort of saying that they will fix endings or address issues, people get hyped, excited again and expect certain things in the ending, which they most likely not going to see there. So what I am trying to say is, do not expect much.

Ok, just read your stuff, sorry for the wait.

Good stuff, and I agree with a lot of it; especially the part where EA is concerned with it's shares. Most likely that is what is happening and I can't dock Ray for being helpless.

However, it's one thing to prepare a statement but another altoghether to make it seems underhanded and cynical towards the people who make those shares fluctuate. To a greater degree to lie about your product to influance gains, it's shameful and not right at all. I would liked him to address that instead of just throwing out a typical PR push, yet again. 

What I tried to achieve here is a counterpoint to Ray's statement, I may be wrong as stated a lot in this topic. But it's good to proivde a good baseline of probablility and knowledge. It gets people thinking and questioning things, as Bioware was trying to do with their speculative ending (hint). However, I do admit I'm not the best at this and quite new to this form of explication. Though I do think it helps to have someone with background to maybe clear things up. 

Rob, I appreciate what you tried to do here, and actually admire your sense of justice. Although, the side effect might be that people would get even more angrier, but maybe it is a good thing.

Me, I am not surprised at all by this whole situation, I've seen, read about and studied corporations for a long time now, and you'll be surprised what kind of shameful and not right things corporations do to maximise their profits.

Anyway, I deviated from the topic now, it is good that your post intended to get people thinking and questioning things. Maybe a bit too late though, at least everyone will know now what to expect or rather what NOT to expect.