474 réponses à ce sujet

[SpideyKnight]

Damn, I could sense the reservation, and the line he has to walk to not offend his employees, but to acknowledge his fans as well. But I generally believed it to be a win for us, and now I'm not so sure. I read it at work and so fast I didn't take the time to put 2 and 2 together. Thank you. I will wait until April though and see if all has been for naught. Hopefully this gets worked out, or I'll take my 400 dollars spent on the chin and move on. I never expected it would come to this though. I had so much faith, and it all came crashing down so loudly.

[Reptilian Rob]

Drinkalot wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Drinkalot wrote...

Ok, first things first. Rob, can't argue about your OP, obviously you know a great deal about analyzing speeches, however I still think Ray is trying to walk on the line here, not taking sides, because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers. But again the speech is pretty vague, which is a trick I guess, so that people can interpret it differently.

On a separate note, CEO's goal number one is to maximize shareholders' profit and then comes everything else. And because he is under EA, it is very likely that they decide what he is going to say, so I am not quite sure what everyone expected him to say other than what he said.

Anyways, firstly I wanted to ask you, Rob, what did you try to achieve with this analysis? I mean by posting it here? In his speech he said that Bioware will respond to issues with ending in a fair and timely manner. That's it. So, for example, if actually nothing happens or if the new DLC does not address the issues with endings, then you can say "He was lying from the beginning" and so on and so forth. So to me, this post just escalates the anger, hatred and other negative emotions in people.

Secondly, and this is to everyone, who says that BioWare, and associated people in their interviews promised that ME3 will have 16 different endings, have you never doubted their words? Have you never asked yourself that it might be just a marketing trick, since everyone wants choices in video games nowadays? Have you never asked yourself whether it can be not true, have you never said to yourself "C'mon 16 different endings? Really? Bull****..". If you never asked yourself, if you never questioned their words, then it is very naive.
Besides, may be it has been said many times now, but I want to repeat, in previous games, ME1 & ME2, choices and consequences (endings) were quite simple save council, don't save council, destroy base, don't destroy base. So in the third game it's all about whether Reapers win or loose, so what kind of wildly, vastly and extremely different endings did you expect, because you must have expected something as you are so upset? And I am not trying to mock you with these words "wildly, vastly and extremely", these are the words I read in the forums, written by people who were upset with endings.

And lastly, people get hyped, excited, and begin to expect the epicness of epic proportions, and I myself is the same. Although I try to avoid it now, as much as possible, so that in the end I am not that upset. The thing is, there are so many posts in the forum now, where people discuss, how they would've done it and what they would've wanted to be in the ending and with BioWare sort of saying that they will fix endings or address issues, people get hyped, excited again and expect certain things in the ending, which they most likely not going to see there. So what I am trying to say is, do not expect much.

Ok, just read your stuff, sorry for the wait.

Good stuff, and I agree with a lot of it; especially the part where EA is concerned with it's shares. Most likely that is what is happening and I can't dock Ray for being helpless.

However, it's one thing to prepare a statement but another altoghether to make it seems underhanded and cynical towards the people who make those shares fluctuate. To a greater degree to lie about your product to influance gains, it's shameful and not right at all. I would liked him to address that instead of just throwing out a typical PR push, yet again. 

What I tried to achieve here is a counterpoint to Ray's statement, I may be wrong as stated a lot in this topic. But it's good to proivde a good baseline of probablility and knowledge. It gets people thinking and questioning things, as Bioware was trying to do with their speculative ending (hint). However, I do admit I'm not the best at this and quite new to this form of explication. Though I do think it helps to have someone with background to maybe clear things up. 

Rob, I appreciate what you tried to do here, and actually admire your sense of justice. Although, the side effect might be that people would get even more angrier, but maybe it is a good thing.

Me, I am not surprised at all by this whole situation, I've seen, read about and studied corporations for a long time now, and you'll be surprised what kind of shameful and not right things corporations do to maximise their profits.

Anyway, I deviated from the topic now, it is good that your post intended to get people thinking and questioning things. Maybe a bit too late though, at least everyone will know now what to expect or rather what NOT to expect.

That's all I was going for, as said before this was in no way intended as a hate speech but rather an in depth breakdown. I respect Ray a great deal, he is a very cool guy outside of this mess.

However, he should have had a heart and wrote his true words and not let his PR reps do it for him. 

[heathxxx]

I read out the statement, recorded it vocally, then played it backwards.

Amongst the obvious distortion, I could clearly make out the sentence...

"The reapers are coming for you. You will be indoctrinated".

Modifié par heathxxx, 23 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[Reptilian Rob]

heathxxx wrote...

I read out the statement, recorded it vocally, then played it backwards.

Amongst the obvious distortion, I could clearly make out the sentence...

"The reapers are coming for you. You will be indoctrinated".

I sure had hell hope so, I hope the Reapers ARE coming.

I want to meet Harbinger face to face, and I want his corpse to lay beside my fleet. 

[Zebra3]

Just read the original post. Great work. I knew there were things that bothered me about his speech but I couldn't quite put my finger on all of them. Thank you for your analysis.

[heathxxx]

Played alongside a Black Sabbath record, it even sounds different again...

[blah64]

You pretty much just summed up the impression I walked away with after reading in a very articulate way. Great read. Thanks.

[jb1983]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Drinkalot wrote...

Ok, first things first. Rob, can't argue about your OP, obviously you know a great deal about analyzing speeches, however I still think Ray is trying to walk on the line here, not taking sides, because obviously he just can't take any side and by sides I mean upset fans and writers and developers. But again the speech is pretty vague, which is a trick I guess, so that people can interpret it differently.

On a separate note, CEO's goal number one is to maximize shareholders' profit and then comes everything else. And because he is under EA, it is very likely that they decide what he is going to say, so I am not quite sure what everyone expected him to say other than what he said.

Anyways, firstly I wanted to ask you, Rob, what did you try to achieve with this analysis? I mean by posting it here? In his speech he said that Bioware will respond to issues with ending in a fair and timely manner. That's it. So, for example, if actually nothing happens or if the new DLC does not address the issues with endings, then you can say "He was lying from the beginning" and so on and so forth. So to me, this post just escalates the anger, hatred and other negative emotions in people.

Secondly, and this is to everyone, who says that BioWare, and associated people in their interviews promised that ME3 will have 16 different endings, have you never doubted their words? Have you never asked yourself that it might be just a marketing trick, since everyone wants choices in video games nowadays? Have you never asked yourself whether it can be not true, have you never said to yourself "C'mon 16 different endings? Really? Bull****..". If you never asked yourself, if you never questioned their words, then it is very naive.
Besides, may be it has been said many times now, but I want to repeat, in previous games, ME1 & ME2, choices and consequences (endings) were quite simple save council, don't save council, destroy base, don't destroy base. So in the third game it's all about whether Reapers win or loose, so what kind of wildly, vastly and extremely different endings did you expect, because you must have expected something as you are so upset? And I am not trying to mock you with these words "wildly, vastly and extremely", these are the words I read in the forums, written by people who were upset with endings.

And lastly, people get hyped, excited, and begin to expect the epicness of epic proportions, and I myself is the same. Although I try to avoid it now, as much as possible, so that in the end I am not that upset. The thing is, there are so many posts in the forum now, where people discuss, how they would've done it and what they would've wanted to be in the ending and with BioWare sort of saying that they will fix endings or address issues, people get hyped, excited again and expect certain things in the ending, which they most likely not going to see there. So what I am trying to say is, do not expect much.

Ok, just read your stuff, sorry for the wait.

Good stuff, and I agree with a lot of it; especially the part where EA is concerned with it's shares. Most likely that is what is happening and I can't dock Ray for being helpless.

However, it's one thing to prepare a statement but another altoghether to make it seems underhanded and cynical towards the people who make those shares fluctuate. To a greater degree to lie about your product to influance gains, it's shameful and not right at all. I would liked him to address that instead of just throwing out a typical PR push, yet again. 

What I tried to achieve here is a counterpoint to Ray's statement, I may be wrong as stated a lot in this topic. But it's good to proivde a good baseline of probablility and knowledge. It gets people thinking and questioning things, as Bioware was trying to do with their speculative ending (hint). However, I do admit I'm not the best at this and quite new to this form of explication. Though I do think it helps to have someone with background to maybe clear things up. 

Been following this. In cas you didn't know (as this links to your post here), I've been analyzing EA's shares for a few days now: 

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10244770

Simply put, ME3 was bringing the shares up until the close of March 9, which is about the time the controversy made it to Forbes and other major news outlets. At closing today, EA's stock is about half a dollar more than what it was on March 6...in other words, the ending debacle (I think) has frightened investors away from EA. 

Not sure there can be a fix, but a more straightforward, "Hey, we're going to fix the endings and offer alternative endings" couldn't hurt EA any more than the silence/ambguity has. 

[Scoob]

Considering what i happening, this thread will soon be closed. Damn, we really need like an IRC channel or a separate forum or something...

[MeldarthX]

Very nice break down -


HOLD THE LINE

[Cirreus]

All Ray had to do was say "I'm sorry, I got this sh*t, we're on it guys" ... one simple broken sentence would have calmed the masses. But he's a PH D don't forget. The last thing on his mind is admitting a mistake to us lowely mortals. Bioware wanted to make a send off Mass Effect game. The problem is they called it Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Cirreus, 23 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[XJ347]

Cirreus wrote...

All Ray had to do was say "I'm sorry, I got this sh*t, we're on it guys" ... one simple broken sentence would have calmed the masses. But he's a PH D don't forget. The last thing on his mind is admitting a mistake to us lowely mortals. Bioware wanted to make a send off Mass Effect game. The problem is they called it Mass Effect 3.

Mass Uneffect 3 "A Story where you don't effect the ending other than the color of the light show!"

[Beldamon]

I see the word 'Paranoia' thrown around rather casually. I suspect it would be better replaced with the work 'Skepticism'.

I think, under the circumstance, skepticism is very healthy. We've already been misled, and a long period of stone walling preceded this blog entry.

The defensive pattern during the DA2 debacle (and the fact they seem to be following that to a 'T') leaves me unwilling to let anything slide.

Bob dug much deeper than I would have -- showing that what seemed deliberately deceptive to me, was probably indeed deliberately deceptive but inspired by genuine fear.

I plan to keep up my message - 'Clarity' and 'Closure', while important, will not be sufficient to make me feel I received the product I paid for.

I can empathize with being in a tough spot, but it could have been easily prevented.

[Amschel]

Both sides have been argued on this thread and others about rays message to us. The reality of it is that at this time both sides are completely valid because we just don't know exactly were Bioware stands right now. Unfortunately we will just have to wait until sometime in April and find out if Bioware is going to make a genuine attempt to fix the ending, or if they just decided to push PR deflection in hopes it would die down enough that they can just start to ignore it.

[The Nur]

Beldamon wrote...

I see the word 'Paranoia' thrown around rather casually. I suspect it would be better replaced with the work 'Skepticism'.

I think, under the circumstance, skepticism is very healthy. We've already been misled, and a long period of stone walling preceded this blog entry.

The defensive pattern during the DA2 debacle (and the fact they seem to be following that to a 'T') leaves me unwilling to let anything slide.

Very well said.  There's nothing wrong with people looking askance at the message.

In reality it was pretty fast and loose and we'll never know till there is actual news or action.

[ZeroSum7]

 Nice post man, thanks

[Grusome11]

Thanks for the interesting take on the topic. I felt the same way about Ray's response.

I would like to point out, that if BW wanted to resolve this issue, they would simply put out more information.

Example:

We understand some people did not like the ending but:

1- we thought it was really good
2 - we made a mistake
3 - we ran out of time
4- some crazy writer took over and no one peer reviewed his stuff
etc.

Telling the fans why this happened woud go a long way towards calming the storm. Ray's statement does not calm the storm. It is a lot of PR speak saying nothing about the situation, except to try and deflect or minimize sales loss by painting RetakeME as a small group of crazies.

Even if they have not decided what to do yet, something like the above with a firm date on when they will announce what their plan is, would be much better than the present statement.

[Grumpy-Mcfart]

Zebra3 wrote...

Just read the original post. Great work. I knew there were things that bothered me about his speech but I couldn't quite put my finger on all of them. Thank you for your analysis.

this.

[MrPuschel]

bmp

[FataliTensei]

Wow

[Reptilian Rob]

Cirreus wrote...

All Ray had to do was say "I'm sorry, I got this sh*t, we're on it guys" ... one simple broken sentence would have calmed the masses. But he's a PH D don't forget. The last thing on his mind is admitting a mistake to us lowely mortals. Bioware wanted to make a send off Mass Effect game. The problem is they called it Mass Effect 3.

QF massive T.

[Fl1xx]

I haven't really even paid attention to Ray's statement, mostly because I don't care for all of this PR and will only start to pay attention once there is a confirmation.

"Clarify" still gets on my nerves. Yes, because that's all that's wrong with the endings.

[Reptilian Rob]

Fl1xx wrote...

I haven't really even paid attention to Ray's statement, mostly because I don't care for all of this PR and will only start to pay attention once there is a confirmation.

"Clarify" still gets on my nerves. Yes, because that's all that's wrong with the endings.

You can bet Ray was just projecting, he's upset and scared. 

[StillOverrated]

N-Seven wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

InfiniteDemise wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

And now we move on to my personal favorite part of the post-release temper tantrum, wherein we carefully scrutinize every bioware statement for hidden messages.

Much more entertaining than empty threats of boycotts, I'll give you that.

To be fair it's not hidden at all...

Not if you're familiar BSN RAEG logic, it isn't.

Quick primer for the unititiated:

If bioware employee x says something you don't want to hear: "He just insulted us!"

If bioware employee x says something you do want to hear: "He's trying to trick us!"

You must be one of those people that thinks that anyone should be happy with anything they buy, no matter how crappy it is.

Because not believing the evil corporation is out to get you is clear proof you're a chump, right? <_<

Hey, it's fun and popular to villainize corporations!  Stop being reasonable!

Yeah! How dare fans get angry over not getting what they were promised and paid for?!

[Stanley Woo]

That's enough of that, thank you.

End of line.