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Someone who tears apart speeches/arguments/statements for a living, and what Ray was REALLY saying.


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#26
Zu Long

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InfiniteDemise wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

And now we move on to my personal favorite part of the post-release temper tantrum, wherein we carefully scrutinize every bioware statement for hidden messages.

Much more entertaining than empty threats of boycotts, I'll give you that.

To be fair it's not hidden at all...


Not if you're familiar BSN RAEG logic, it isn't.

Quick primer for the unititiated:

If bioware employee x says something you don't want to hear: "He just insulted us!"

If bioware employee x says something you do want to hear: "He's trying to trick us!"


You must be one of those people that thinks that anyone should be happy with anything they buy, no matter how crappy it is.



Because not believing the evil corporation is out to get you is clear proof you're a chump, right? <_<

Modifié par Zu Long, 22 mars 2012 - 03:41 .


#27
t_i_e_

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GOOD POST!!!!

Also:
Bioware needs to full fill their promises in advertisement and interviews months before the release. Meaning FREE DLC with the promised ending. Otherwise, Bioware should take back your game as a full return or face lawsuit.

The promises.

Modifié par t_i_e_, 22 mars 2012 - 03:41 .


#28
Ishiken

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The problem with the statement is quite simply that it promises and tells the fans absolutely nothing besides we are looking into it and listening to your feedback.

The other problem is quite simply that retailers such as Amazon are now offering full refunds for returning Mass Effect 3, which quite unusual since video games are usually non-refundable once it has been opened. I also know how giant retailers like Amazon work. If they get large numbers of consumer complaints and returns, then Amazon will pressure EA to either give them a bigger discount on future successful titles or force EA to take back some of the stock; and both of which cuts into the bottom line for EA. Giant retailers are now pressuring EA to fix this mess, since all buying is based on projections on previous sales and Mass Effect 3's failure will have a giant impact on those future projections and hence EA's future game sales.

Ray's most standout comment in his entire speech is the part where he tells fans to give "fair review based not only on the ending but also the gameplay." He's also telling other players to buy the game and experience the game and not listen to the flows of negative fan reviews. Both of which is aimed to prevent the flow of returns and I am assuming the stagnating sales of Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Ishiken, 22 mars 2012 - 03:51 .


#29
JulienJaden

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GBGriffin wrote...

The only part of his post that I actually believed was the April timeline, as vague as it is. At least we have some sort of period of time to expect...something. I'm not sure, but hopefully something more concrete than what we have now.

Nicely done, btw.


Yeah. I don't get how people think this is actually a 'peace offering'. It keeps things vague and felt condescending to me even the first time I read it.

I've had teachers that talked to me like that. They were my least favorite ones. Actually, they evoked the urge in me to be confrontational. It pretty much always worked out for me, though, because my kind of confrontational means "presenting a better case and superior arguments while staying civil".

Seriously, Ray, Chris and whoever else may or may not read this: We are not a small demographic. We're not children. There's people here who know how PR and business works. And even without them, we know you're stalling. Stop this. All you're doing with this is getting your loyal fanbase angry. And you guys don't want your own customers to be angry. All that will do for you is get rid of some save sales.

#30
Brawne

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He is shifting the blame around and makes fans look like bad guys. They screwed up, were in a hurry and didnt bother with proper ending and now fans are the bad guys who want to ruin the artistic integrity.
Genius letter actually. And new low achieved. This company really has hit the rock-bottom.

#31
Tyrzun

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Coder4Hire wrote...

At this point I've given up.

I'm just waiting to see how many people blindly buy dlc when it comes out, after swearing it off


A lot will to be sure.  Too many people have been indoctrinated into feeling lucky to buy products from companies.  They don't feel lucky to buy gas, or electricty, or water... those are "bills" but thank you for making x product.  it's crazy.  They don't realize that they actually have the power and the company works for them.  The only way to BE the boss is withhold funds or get other people to.

#32
lucidfox

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LeonRoughan wrote...

I posted on the retake board earlier after I read the statement with a similar sentiment. Albeit lampooning the feeling he was putting across.

"to sum up Dr. Ray Muzyka's blog post:

"I loved my own product! Look at these review scores! LOOK AT THEM! Don't you understand that you are therefore wrong? It's ok though, i'll humbly accept the criticism.

fair does, a bunch of you guys didn't like it (I have no idea for the life of me why, Deus Ex plots and 3 identical colour coded endings are cool right?)

So apparently you guys just want closure yes? (boy I have obviously NOT read most of the threads) well we can take a look!

Just know that we're working on DLC at the moment regardless. So if we get round to fixing stuff (depending on how the sales go) then good for you.

Also, do your own research, buy the game, tell a friend to buy the game, already own a copy? buy another copy! You genuinely can't hate the ending any MORE at this point can you?

I'm not going to mention the charity drive.

Thank you for your feed back - we are listening!

*COMMENTS CLOSED*"

Yes, that's about it.

Ray is not a "clever spokesman". If he was, we wouldn't be tearing apart his speech.

#33
SharlenaSharlena

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Great job dissecting this statement Rob! By analyzing their statements intelligently we are only giving ourselves the advantage by not giving them the we are dumb unorganized gamer's who eat Doritos and play Bioware products all day stereotype.

#34
totalrecall87

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Has this been posted on the retake fb page? ThAnks for your critique!

#35
MaYtriX

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Hoping for PAX.

#36
Tranceptor

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Reptilian Rob wrote...

I've probably said it enough what my career is, so I'll leave it out of this thread.




. . . . but I have no idea what your career is or why it's relevant. Image IPB

#37
cutegigi

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to OP, thanks for your analysis. Glad to see that im not the only one that interpret the statement this way.

#38
Virgl

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Sad, whether you are right or not. I wish it was about fans first then the money(yes EA/Bioware you'll get it anyway...), not the other way around.

#39
LadyofRivendell

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Thanks for doing this, Rob. I could tell something was definitely off about his letter, but your analysis really proves that something's up behind the scenes.

Now... what, is the question. We could make several inferences, but the fact remains that, without an inside source, we'll never get the "real" side of the story. Any ideas on what the source of the fear is? Sales? EA? Alienating the fanbase?

#40
t_i_e_

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N-Seven wrote...

This community is embarrassing itself more by the minute. FFS already, just chill. Will the freaking out and paranoia ever end? It's a video game people.


Not sure if your a PR drone or you just want to fork over your money that fast for the DLC.

#41
Reptilian Rob

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Tranceptor wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I've probably said it enough what my career is, so I'll leave it out of this thread.




. . . . but I have no idea what your career is or why it's relevant. Image IPB

Science Fiction Literature graduate who is a freelancer storyboard concept writer. Graduated from UCSD (still attending! Go Trittons!)

#42
Ghost of a Messiah

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Fat Head wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

The only part of his post that I actually believed was the April timeline, as vague as it is. At least we have some sort of period of time to expect...something. I'm not sure, but hopefully something more concrete than what we have now.

Nicely done, btw.


Same here.  I know a lot of people are skeptical, but I believe that it'll be PAX.  Why have a big panel for the game a month after it was released, unless something significant is planned.  Even if nothing is, I'd bet the programming for that panel is getting changed right quick.


This is the only hopeful comment on this thread... But after reading Rep Rob's analysis I can't argue the future looks bleak at best.

#43
Dean_the_Young

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KRAETZNER wrote...


The community has every right to be angry.

The community didn't exactly alight on the less-than-promised outputs of ME1 and ME2.

Ah, yes, 'Consequences'... (in ME2)

#44
liggy002

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We wont know anything until they give us a definite announcement. Until then, we shouldn't make any assumptions. If what you say is true, this will have only made me angrier but I'll give Bioware the benefit of the doubt for now and see what happens. I guess I just try to be an optimist.

#45
Reptilian Rob

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LadyofRivendell wrote...

Thanks for doing this, Rob. I could tell something was definitely off about his letter, but your analysis really proves that something's up behind the scenes.

Now... what, is the question. We could make several inferences, but the fact remains that, without an inside source, we'll never get the "real" side of the story. Any ideas on what the source of the fear is? Sales? EA? Alienating the fanbase?

Come down to pride and unwillingness to admit a fault.

It's clear deflection, he knows he is DEAD wrong and they dun ****ed up something awful. But they are not going to admit it without EA's say so.

In this case, EA is the freaking hero. 

#46
The Real Bowser

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YeGodz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

And now we move on to my personal favorite part of the post-release temper tantrum, wherein we carefully scrutinize every bioware statement for hidden messages.

Much more entertaining than empty threats of boycotts, I'll give you that.

To be fair it's not hidden at all...


Not if you're familiar BSN RAEG logic, it isn't.

Quick primer for the unititiated:

If bioware employee x says something you don't want to hear: "He just insulted us!"

If bioware employee x says something you do want to hear: "He's trying to trick us!"

It's good to know that bioware still has a few fanboys that blindly follow them regardless of what kind of crap the throw at them.

Pat yourself on the back, feel good about it.  Bioware fans are going to be very rare soon, I think, and that will make you special.


As for the OP, thanks for taking the time to do this.  I enjoyed reading it.

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 22 mars 2012 - 03:46 .


#47
Ender99

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I know they say we over-analyze things in this forum. Maybe we do, but I didn't have to analyze this statement to think it felt contrived. The mentioning the artists and the critics so much, rubbed me the wrong the first time I read it.

It was like he couldn't....quite....get....over...his.....pride.

Still holding the line, for as long as it takes.

#48
Tyrzun

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Zu Long wrote...

InfiniteDemise wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

YeGodz wrote...

And now we move on to my personal favorite part of the post-release temper tantrum, wherein we carefully scrutinize every bioware statement for hidden messages.

Much more entertaining than empty threats of boycotts, I'll give you that.

To be fair it's not hidden at all...


Not if you're familiar BSN RAEG logic, it isn't.

Quick primer for the unititiated:

If bioware employee x says something you don't want to hear: "He just insulted us!"

If bioware employee x says something you do want to hear: "He's trying to trick us!"


You must be one of those people that thinks that anyone should be happy with anything they buy, no matter how crappy it is.



Because not believing the evil corporation is out to get you is clear proof you're a chump, right? <_<


Another person jumps in without the facts.  Well the issue as it always has bee nis FALSE advertising and REY didn't mention it at all.  Prepare to understand and actually I expect you to not say a thing, most people on "your" side do after we bring this up.

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

^ That is what was advertised.  That is what we paid for.  That is not what we got.  NOTHING defends them giving us the opposite.  It's false advertising and unethical.

It's why Forbes is getting involved.

Erik Kain can explain to you what Rey actually said if you won't believe us.

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

#49
RaptorZefier

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N-Seven wrote...

This community is embarrassing itself more by the minute. FFS already, just chill. Will the freaking out and paranoia ever end? It's a video game people.


lol, seriously man? Do you realize we're on the internet? 

In short, not a chance. 

#50
Ibn_Shisha

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Don't forget this one:

"Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios."
http://masseffect.com/about/story/