474 réponses à ce sujet

[REMoyen2]

I could not agree more. I read the statement and respected that they actually responded. Then after reading it again and coming to the forums did I then feel like I was being played by words. I respect Bioware, but I do not respect mix messages, not delivering on comments/statements given, and retracting statement said.

[Reptilian Rob]

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

[FyreSyder]

Excellent deconstruction. A must read.

[Dean_the_Young]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

I manage somehow. Maybe you should re-train.

[mastergpo]

Intersting read op.

[Zu Long]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

I don't see where you gave him the benefit of the doubt anywhere in that analysis.

[mghjr6]

Zanallen wrote...

And people wonder why the devs are hesitant to comment on things...

I actually agree with this. But the fact is that they should be afraid. BioWare is still a good company, but they've dropped one ball too many lately.

I feel sorry for Dr. Muzyka, to tell the truth. I'm not sure if he's just caught between EA and the deadlines / fans or if he's really distraught over the way we feel. Part of me thinks he was simply unable to do what he wanted, but that's just speculation.

If this breakdown of his statement is correct, it could also simply be genuine frusteration over fans not liking the ending. Hard to tell.

[Lazarus Cricket]

Edit: wrong post

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 22 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[jess05]

This did seem to be an attempt to calm things and make the retake movement seem the minority.
In the process, turning those who like the end(or those who took the letter at face value)  against those who don't, in order to start agruments between us.

And its working.  Some simply can not see it for it was intended to do.
Best to ignore them, and not give them the pleasure.


And BTW .. Thanks OP. Interesting read.

Modifié par jess05, 22 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[Stormraught]

Rob winning, +1

[Reptilian Rob]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

I manage somehow. Maybe you should re-train.

At this point I'll just consider your posts invalid due to lack of evidence. If you can come up with a valid reason other than slight grammatical/spelling errors I would be happy to respond.

Until then, I will take your response with as much salt as I did Ray's. 

[Leraje666]

Stormraught wrote...

Rob winning, +1

+2

[Reptilian Rob]

Zu Long wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

I don't see where you gave him the benefit of the doubt anywhere in that analysis.

I could have said a lot more, but chose not to. 

I'm giving him a chance to fix it, as stated during the end. 

[Brawne]

N-Seven wrote...

Brawne wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

It's amazing how hostile and defensive the community is getting against people that are not happy with the ending. They are treating this issue like Bioware is their god, and anything Bioware says or does is absolutely infallible. Disagreeing with them is heresy!

Get the hell over it. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but can we discuss this like civilized people instead of ignorant morons? And this applies to both sides of the argument, but it's the 'pro-ender' crowd that is inciting for the most part, isn't it?

The simple fact is that we're all fans of Bioware. If we weren't, we wouldn't be upset about this yet care enough to ask Bioware to fix it. If we lost all faith in Bioware, we wouldn't be here posting. We'd have sold/returned our copies and moved on. To be frank with you, I think more and more people are doing this by the day. By the time this ****storm is over, this forum is going to be a lot more quiet.

That's exactly what this letter was all about and what it is trying to achieve. To ridicule dissatisfied people and make them look like crazy minority and sick rest of the community on them.
Gj. Like I said before, genius letter.

I am part of the dissatisfied people.  I hated all three endings.  I donated towards Child's Play.  But I'm not about to let paranoia overtake me, villainize Bioware as a whole or individual employees, or conduct any witch hunts or Spanish inquisitions.  You know how many threads have been created in the last week which have no real purpose other than to get people madder?  I've lost count.  This is another one.  It's a pretty one though.  Very enticing title.  Not very constructive though.  Which is what we should be doing.

This letter was filled with hidden and with not so hidden stabs at fans who want them to fix this mess. Frankly I found it insulting. Instead of admitting they screwed up they are trying to shift the blame around and hide behind the reviews they paid for.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

Biotrolls for the win

[Silveralen]

Yep. Read through it once, dismissed it as more of the same, this time with a tenative verbal agreement.

Overall message I got? "There, we will do something, now sit down and shut up." Doesn't want to make fans happy, just wants the bad PR to end.

[Edrick1976]

I am very greatfull for someone like the OP, I new after reading that blog post their was a dam good reason why I just felt like I watched a Presidential political debate.... Way to much BS in their.

[Brawne]

jess05 wrote...

This did seem to be an attempt to calm things and make the retake movement seem the minority.
In the process, turning those who like the end(or those who took the letter at face value)  against those who don't, starting agruments started between us.

And its working.  Some simply can not see it for it was intended to do.
Best to ignore them, and not give them the pleasure.


And BTW .. Thanks OP. Interesting read.

This is exactly what I'm saying. The letter was genius work and is already working very well.

[N-Seven]

Zu Long wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Brawne wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

It's amazing how hostile and defensive the community is getting against people that are not happy with the ending. They are treating this issue like Bioware is their god, and anything Bioware says or does is absolutely infallible. Disagreeing with them is heresy!

Get the hell over it. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but can we discuss this like civilized people instead of ignorant morons? And this applies to both sides of the argument, but it's the 'pro-ender' crowd that is inciting for the most part, isn't it?

The simple fact is that we're all fans of Bioware. If we weren't, we wouldn't be upset about this yet care enough to ask Bioware to fix it. If we lost all faith in Bioware, we wouldn't be here posting. We'd have sold/returned our copies and moved on. To be frank with you, I think more and more people are doing this by the day. By the time this ****storm is over, this forum is going to be a lot more quiet.

That's exactly what this letter was all about and what it is trying to achieve. To ridicule dissatisfied people and make them look like crazy minority and sick rest of the community on them.
Gj. Like I said before, genius letter.

I am part of the dissatisfied people.  I hated all three endings.  I donated towards Child's Play.  But I'm not about to let paranoia overtake me, villainize Bioware as a whole or individual employees, or conduct any witch hunts or Spanish inquisitions.  You know how many threads have been created in the last week which have no real purpose other than to get people madder?  I've lost count.  This is another one.  It's a pretty one though.  Very enticing title.  Not very constructive though.  Which is what we should be doing.

May I just say it's a pleasure to know that at least one other person hasn't succombed to the crazy? 

Keep fighting the good fight, brother.

That's right buddy!  Hold the line!  And by 'Hold the Line', I mean hold onto your sanity.  Don't let some poorly-written (depending on taste and expectations) game ending drive you bonkers.  It's a madhouse in here.

[Grasich]

NightHawkIL wrote...

Palando wrote...

The problem with breaking down a statement piece by piece is that you run the risk of putting too much weight on elements that don't really mean anything. I saw the second paragraph as setting forth a genuine conflict that exists, that between the desires of the fans and the intent of the artist, the OP saw it as a put-down. Try not to create bogeymen where none exist.

That's a fair point against breaking down something casual such as a forum post, but this was an official statement representing a multi million dollar company. You can bet that there was absolutely nothing in it that was not meticulously thought out. You can tell even further how much thought was put into releasing a statment by how long it took to do so.

I believe the OP was entirely fair in his analysis.

I would agree with this. Let's also just put ourselves in Bioware's shoes for a moment. They have at least 60k people telling them they made a massive screw up, and if the polls are to be believed, there are most likely MANY MANY more than that even.

Now imagine for a moment that you created something, and suddenly have a city's worth of people angered because of your mistake. That's a pretty ****ty situation to be in, so a bit of anger and denial is to be expected.

We're doing everything right as far as I've seen though, so keep it up people. Just be patient, and

Hold the line.

[Zu Long]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

To be clear, this is not paranoia, I give him the benefit of the doubt here. But as someone who is trained in the art of word I cannot read that statement without the negative spin.

I don't see where you gave him the benefit of the doubt anywhere in that analysis.

I could have said a lot more, but chose not to. 

I'm giving him a chance to fix it, as stated during the end. 

Awfully sporting of you, but what if he isn't sifting through every response this board puts up to his letter to the fans?

[Axialbloom]

Yep, I saw this straight away. With all the rhetoric and historical studies I have done, I could clearly see the condescension and mildly insulting nature of his article.

[Dean_the_Young]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

At this point I'll just consider your posts invalid due to lack of evidence.

And I have no evidence of your profession besides a vague claim, and repeated appeals to authority (said authority being yourself).

Now, we could simply accept that there might be other people in the world who, by nature of profession, have to read between the lines of what people say and what it means. Or you could simply disqualify anyone who doesn't provide their personal identity information such that you can verfiy their claims to similar authority.

If you can come up with a valid reason other than slight grammatical/spelling errors I would be happy to respond.

Sure. Approaching with the intent to presume the worst, and an inclination to disect without context of the supporting parts of the document.

Until then, I will take your response with as much salt as I did Ray's. 

But with significantly less bias, one would hope.