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[Viglin]

On my first playthrough, didnt think about it much and put him on the throne[my charcter basically a Paladin]..but on my second playthrough with a much darker Knight, l noticed two things;

*Slaying Wynne...Alister declares he wont attack an old woman...but he does

*Destroying the Sacred Ashes...he disagrees with it but goes along with it, even helping to slay one of the companions who actually likes him, Leliane[sp?], and then letting an "innocent old man" be murdered[Brother Gentavi].

Way to stick to your guns kid[and yes he does harden up near the end, a little too late ld say]

I love this game and especially the story...but some things just make me do an about face.

Morrigan, for all he sly ways and intenseions, you least know where you stand with her.
The other so-called "good" characters make me wonder.

If we do get a sequel....or a major exspansion, ld like to see the characters have reactions based on how you treat the other companions[other then Alisters interrogation of them]...who are after all their companions as well, sharing the good and the bad an trusting their lives to them.

[Recidiva]

The approval thing is so uneven.
First play through I woudln't take any of the side quests, assuming that my more moral companions would object to each quest.
Start to play a morally ambiguous character and I come to find out I can gather murdered bodies from around town and dump them into the chantry well...and Lelianna, Wynne and Alistair are all standing there checking out the scenery. Not giving a damn.
So most of the choices I've just memorized. "Don't bring Lel here. Don't have Al do this fight. Morrigan will pick at you the whole way up the hill...leave her at camp."
Getting past who the characters think they are to who the characters actually are under different circumstances is fun though.

Modifié par Recidiva, 30 novembre 2009 - 07:32 .

[Serenity84]

Recidiva wrote...
So most of the choices I've just memorized. "Don't bring Lel here. Don't have Al do this fight. Morrigan will pick at you the whole way up the hill...leave her at camp."[

That's my exact party for the entire game. I did nearly all the sidequests, but went with the good decisions mostly. If you have high persuasion and with gifts, you can smooth over anything but their crisis moments.

[Taleroth]

Lelianna, Wynne, and Shale are the characters I respect most. Those willing to die for what they believe in. Sten, too.



Oghren gets a pass for being too drunk to care about anything.



Alistair, though... you can get him to surrender his cause completely. Which is kind of pathetic.

And Morrigan was just railroaded into hers by science knows what.



But the first three I mentioned are to be respected. And honored.

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

Lelianna, Wynne, and Shale are the characters I respect most. Those willing to die for what they believe in. Sten, too.

Oghren gets a pass for being too drunk to care about anything.

Alistair, though... you can get him to surrender his cause completely. Which is kind of pathetic.
And Morrigan was just railroaded into hers by science knows what.

But the first three I mentioned are to be respected. And honored.

I think I have respect for all of them.  I can't pass up any of them, really.  Not knowing what funny things they say.

Sten is to be respected.  But I think it's Shayle that really gets my biggest hats off, pigeon free zone respect.

Dog gets my absolute adoration, considering he looks and acts just like a Rottweiler I once owned.

[Viglin]

Recidiva wrote...

The approval thing is so uneven.
First play through I woudln't take any of the side quests, assuming that my more moral companions would object to each quest.
Start to play a morally ambiguous character and I come to find out I can gather murdered bodies from around town and dump them into the chantry well...and Lelianna, Wynne and Alistair are all standing there checking out the scenery. Not giving a damn.
So most of the choices I've just memorized. "Don't bring Lel here. Don't have Al do this fight. Morrigan will pick at you the whole way up the hill...leave her at camp."
Getting past who the characters think they are to who the characters actually are under different circumstances is fun though.

Sometimes l see them more as hired henchpeople then friends and trusted allies.

And yes, that Chantry Well..l was a little shocked at the total lack of reaction from the Holy Trio.

[Recidiva]

That's my exact party for the entire game. I did nearly all the sidequests, but went with the good decisions mostly. If you have high persuasion and with gifts, you can smooth over anything but their crisis moments.

I think the first game I had Dog, Alistair and Wynne and that's really my core group of my favoritest people.  I played through two games before I bought the DLC and then I was infatuated with Shale.

Lel and Zev lose out just because I prefer to be a rogue anyway.  Alistair is really the best tank build and Wynne is the best healer and dog is just...well, dog.  With the DLC though I'll go for Al, Shale and Wynne and me as a rogue.

Zev's just tough because by the time you get him and you've been using Lel as your rogue, who wants to start over and rebuild his skills?  Game's almost over by that point.

[Viglin]

Taleroth wrote...

Lelianna, Wynne, and Shale are the characters I respect most. Those willing to die for what they believe in. Sten, too.

Oghren gets a pass for being too drunk to care about anything.

Alistair, though... you can get him to surrender his cause completely. Which is kind of pathetic.
And Morrigan was just railroaded into hers by science knows what.

But the first three I mentioned are to be respected. And honored.

Dog, Shale and Oghren are the best...ok so l like the Dwarf cause he drinks and has some amusing pick up lines:)

[Recidiva]

Sometimes l see them more as hired henchpeople then friends and trusted allies.

And yes, that Chantry Well..l was a little shocked at the total lack of reaction from the Holy Trio.

Hah!  Yeah.  I think of them as my kids really.  They all need direction and limits and a curfew and a safe home.  I play the game best under those circumstances.  It was impossible for me to make it to the end of the game and really think of them as peers.

[Skellimancer]

Alistair drowns puppies when you are not watching.

[Recidiva]

Skellimancer wrote...

Alistair drowns puppies when you are not watching.

"You know what they say...one man's pain..."

Perfect Alistair quote.

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

Sometimes l see them more as hired henchpeople then friends and trusted allies.

And yes, that Chantry Well..l was a little shocked at the total lack of reaction from the Holy Trio.

Hah!  Yeah.  I think of them as my kids really.  They all need direction and limits and a curfew and a safe home.  I play the game best under those circumstances.  It was impossible for me to make it to the end of the game and really think of them as peers.

It's impossible to view them as peers.  They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

It's impossible to view them as peers.  They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Yes.  Facing the game as if I'm going in to be a matron at a halfway house full of drug addicts and people with rebellion and parental issues is really best.  Leliana needs her feet stapled to the ground without actually messing up her shoes, Zev needs a home, Alistair needs to just be pointed at things so he can kill them and told he's pretty when he's quiet, Wynne needs to feel...relevant, Shale needs a constructive hobby, Morrigan needs to feel like she's smarter than everyone around her or her self esteem collapses and she starts getting random tattoos and piercings with questionable hygiene practices just to get your attention.  Oghren needs an intervention, Sten is fascinated by shiny things and you have to go find one for him.

Dog's cool.  Dog is the sanest one there.  All hail Dog.

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

It's impossible to view them as peers.  They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Yes.  Facing the game as if I'm going in to be a matron at a halfway house full of drug addicts and people with rebellion and parental issues is really best.  Leliana needs her feet stapled to the ground without actually messing up her shoes, Zev needs a home, Alistair needs to just be pointed at things so he can kill them and told he's pretty when he's quiet, Wynne needs to feel...relevant, Shale needs a constructive hobby, Morrigan needs to feel like she's smarter than everyone around her or her self esteem collapses and she starts getting random tattoos and piercings with questionable hygiene practices just to get your attention.  Oghren needs an intervention, Sten is fascinated by shiny things and you have to go find one for him.

Dog's cool.  Dog is the sanest one there.  All hail Dog.

*sniffle*
It's so sad watching them go out in the real world by themselves.  Too bad Morrigan had to get herself knocked up and ran away from home, though.  I had such high hopes for that one.

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

*sniffle*
It's so sad watching them go out in the real world by themselves.  Too bad Morrigan had to get herself knocked up and ran away from home, though.  I had such high hopes for that one.

My first play through I parked her in camp for the whole thing and at the end when she showed up in my room I just said "Oh no.  Boy, do YOU have a problem with reading your audience."

*click on the thing that will ****** her off the fastest.  NO.NO.NO.NO.FLEMETH SUCKS.NO.NO.NO."

*wolf form*

"****."

Modifié par Recidiva, 30 novembre 2009 - 08:19 .

[CimmerianJester]

Recidiva wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

It's impossible to view them as peers.  They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Yes.  Facing the game as if I'm going in to be a matron at a halfway house full of drug addicts and people with rebellion and parental issues is really best.  Leliana needs her feet stapled to the ground without actually messing up her shoes, Zev needs a home, Alistair needs to just be pointed at things so he can kill them and told he's pretty when he's quiet, Wynne needs to feel...relevant, Shale needs a constructive hobby, Morrigan needs to feel like she's smarter than everyone around her or her self esteem collapses and she starts getting random tattoos and piercings with questionable hygiene practices just to get your attention.  Oghren needs an intervention, Sten is fascinated by shiny things and you have to go find one for him.

Dog's cool.  Dog is the sanest one there.  All hail Dog.

Of these, Our Internets, few posts were ever written with which I have both agreed and enjoyed more. Amen.

Many vast and glorious props to you for this. Awesome.

[Viglin]

Recidiva wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

It's impossible to view them as peers.  They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Yes.  Facing the game as if I'm going in to be a matron at a halfway house full of drug addicts and people with rebellion and parental issues is really best.  Leliana needs her feet stapled to the ground without actually messing up her shoes, Zev needs a home, Alistair needs to just be pointed at things so he can kill them and told he's pretty when he's quiet, Wynne needs to feel...relevant, Shale needs a constructive hobby, Morrigan needs to feel like she's smarter than everyone around her or her self esteem collapses and she starts getting random tattoos and piercings with questionable hygiene practices just to get your attention.  Oghren needs an intervention, Sten is fascinated by shiny things and you have to go find one for him.

Dog's cool.  Dog is the sanest one there.  All hail Dog.

Tis a shame that when we return to the battlefield we cannot claim a second Dog:(

Maybe its why l enjoy the Ranger...l get another puppy who doesnt unload all their faults, needs and greeds upon me!

As to the post from someone about "you being the Hero", its kinda hard to take when;
-Alister is actually a higher ranking Warden with Templat training
-Morrigan has been trained bye a virtual immortal legend
-Leliane is a trained Bard/Assassin/Spy
-Sten is of the "Vanguard"
-Wynne is one of the High Enchanters
-Zev is a trained assassin
-Orhgen has years of war expereince
-Dog is actually a trained Warhound

While your either an aprentice mage, an untrained Noble, a criminal, an exiled Dwarf, etc etc

If l was a random stranger, and met this group...ld be betting on those other guys and girls.

[Recidiva]

CimmerianJester wrote...

Of these, Our Internets, few posts were ever written with which I have both agreed and enjoyed more. Amen.

Many vast and glorious props to you for this. Awesome.

Thank you!

May you always find your way in dense text, my friend.

[RunCDFirst]

Taleroth wrote...
It's impossible to view them as peers. 
They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so
completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time
I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Try playing with a random group of people in L4D2.

Viglin wrote...

As to the post from someone about "you being the Hero", its kinda hard to take when;
-Alister is actually a higher ranking Warden with Templat training
-Morrigan has been trained bye a virtual immortal legend
-Leliane is a trained Bard/Assassin/Spy
-Sten is of the "Vanguard"
-Wynne is one of the High Enchanters
-Zev is a trained assassin
-Orhgen has years of war expereince
-Dog is actually a trained Warhound

While your either an aprentice mage, an untrained Noble, a criminal, an exiled Dwarf, etc etc

If l was a random stranger, and met this group...ld be betting on those other guys and girls.

To  be fair...

- Alistair is a twit.
- Morrigan has no social skills to speak of and would be terrible for leading an army against a Blight
- Leliana has converted to being a servant of her god
- Sten is only in your company because he has been 'released' into your custody
- You are a Grey Warden who mages should be deferring to
- Zev owes you his life
- Oghren's a drunk
- Dog's a dog

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:38 .

[tmp7704]

Recidiva wrote...

Hah!  Yeah.  I think of them as my kids really.  They all need direction and limits and a curfew and a safe home.  I play the game best under those circumstances.  It was impossible for me to make it to the end of the game and really think of them as peers.

Well, look at it this way. Alistair makes one (optionally two) individual decisions and it's enough for people to hate his guts and make threads about it. Imagine he was doing as he pleases on every turn instead?

And then everyone else, too?

Players **** but in practice they take other characters showing any kind of independence that cannot be countered with a simple persuasion check very, very badly. It can make you wonder who exactly is being childish in all this

[Viglin]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
It's impossible to view them as peers. 
They defer everything to you.  I've not seen a group of people so
completely dependent upon the choice of one man since... the last time
I played a group based RPG.

Then there's "hardening."  It's really like I'm dealing with children!

Try playing with a random group of people in L4D2.

Viglin wrote...

As to the post from someone about "you being the Hero", its kinda hard to take when;
-Alister is actually a higher ranking Warden with Templat training
-Morrigan has been trained bye a virtual immortal legend
-Leliane is a trained Bard/Assassin/Spy
-Sten is of the "Vanguard"
-Wynne is one of the High Enchanters
-Zev is a trained assassin
-Orhgen has years of war expereince
-Dog is actually a trained Warhound

While your either an aprentice mage, an untrained Noble, a criminal, an exiled Dwarf, etc etc

If l was a random stranger, and met this group...ld be betting on those other guys and girls.

To  be fair...

- Alistair is a twit.
- Morrigan has no social skills to speak of and would be terrible for leading an army against a Blight
- Leliana has converted to being a servant of her god
- Sten is only in your company because he has been 'released' into your custody
- You are a Grey Warden who mages should be deferring to
- Zev owes you his life
- Oghren's a drunk
- Dog's a dog

Well played:)

[Taleroth]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Try playing with a random group of people in L4D2.

If it's anything like the first one, it's not so much them defering to you as them running around like chickens with their heads cut off until you say "**** it" and leave them to die.

[ReubenLiew]

Whatever Chuck Norris can do, Dog can do it better!

Under all the fur, there isn't a dog, it's just another fist!

Dog should lead the group, clearly he's better than everyone else if it weren't for the fact that the PC exists.

[Recidiva]

tmp7704 wrote...

Well, look at it this way. Alistair makes one (optionally two) individual decisions and it's enough for people to hate his guts and make threads about it. Imagine he was doing as he pleases on every turn instead?

And then everyone else, too?

Players **** but in practice they take other characters showing any kind of independence that cannot be countered with a simple persuasion check very, very badly. It can make you wonder who exactly is being childish in all this

It's not that he's making the decisions.  They're just very bad decisions.  That doesn't make him unique, every character in the game makes very bad decisions.  They're not special.

I don't take the hate all that seriously, but I do think this game in particular has done a very good job of striking some very powerful notes, and some of the most powerful are very discordant.

Some of it is like the annoyance factor of hearing the first five raps of "Shave and a haircut" and being unable to resist knocking twice to just FINISH IT.

Minor chords that don't resolve compel people to hum their own ending if they would like a resolution.