181 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

If a majority of fans want different endings they should get them.

They were after all promised VARIED endings.

Yes, this, thank you.

I can't believe there's an uproar against changing the endings now.

What will it hurt for us "entitled, whining children" to get what we were promised while the rest of you sit back and don't download it?

Again, it's not about changing the ending. Though creating MORE to the ending rather than changing what they have already would make the most sense, frankly.

It's about the fact that even that isn't good enough for you. You guys just keep demanding more and more and more and more and MORE. What the hell is it going to take before you just shut up and recognize that you're getting what you want?

You need to look in a freaking mirror before you go accusing.
I see exactly 1 person demadin more and more.
Demands that we shut up.
Demands that we be happy
Demands that we blindly follow.
Demands that we agree.
Who the hell do you think you are?
If your not a troll you should be banned for being so rude with everything.
I see people trying to discuss things and 1 person trying to derail this into their own personal campaign against the evil.
So much venom from every post you make and it boggles the mind that you cant even see it while accusing us of the exact thing your spewing!

First off, I've never demanded you be happy, blindly follow, or blindly agree. So... 1/5, that's 20%, that's an F.

And again I'd like to point out that just because I disagree with you, and just because I pick apart your complaints with evidence and just because I'm better than you, doesn't make me "spewing venom" or a troll. Adding in your essay portion, you scored a grand total of 1/7, please see me after class so we can discuss whether or not the material is just too advanced for you.

[Rockworm503]

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

[GBJ13]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And that's where the slippery slope comes in. You all created this giant hissy fit and got BioWare to give in. If the DLC doesn't live up to your asinine standards, will you do it again? And again? And again? And again?

This is why I hoped BioWare wouldn't give in to you all, but they did. There's a REASON that when dealing with people who take hostages, most countries won't give in to their demands....

I normally don't respond to these kind of posts, but this is just nuts...

A large percentage of human interactions are negiotations. You want something from somebody and you bargain for it.   Engaging in demands is not the equivalent of hostage taking. It's not even close.   People want a new ending or endings.  If they get a new ending consistent with their complaints, then they'll be happy. If they don't, they won't. It's no different than if you ask somebody to fix you car, tv, etc,  Your approval is based upon how well they did their job.

Review bombing, filing FTC complaints, filing BBB complaints, threatening legal action against BioWare... how about those. Are those close? 

You want to negotiate, you have to be willing to compromise, otherwise it's not a negotiation. Your side won't even budge on the fact that this 98% hate the endings poll is flawed, or that BioWare did not lie in their publicity except for the Multiplayer claim. Until you can budge on those tiny, indefensible positions, there's no reason to believe you're anything BUT hostage takers making demands.

I'm not sure where you get that people are not willing to compromise. For example, several people have posted about being willing to pay for a new DLC if add additional endings. i.e. we will pay you for you to provide a better ending to the game. That's pretty straightforward bargain for exchange. Are there some people making completely unreasonable demands? Sure..   But, I think it's hard to claim that's a majority or even representative of most people.

As for the other things you listed:
1. Filing a FTC complaint- First, filing a lawsuit isn't the equivalent of hostage taking. It's seeking a legal resolution, the exact opposite.  I think the lawsuit is  unlikely to survive summary judgment, so the courts will likely throw it out. However, a consumer challenging product is really important to the system and our society as a whole.   I know some lawyers who work in consumer protection who could tell you some horror stories.  If Bioware breached its legal obligations, a court will determine it. If the lawsuit is frivolous, it'll be dismissed.  However, the lawsuit isn't tied to people who want to change the ending. Most people against the ending have expressly stated they're not interested in participating in the lawsuit. So I'm not sure how you can attribute it to those who want the ending changed?
2. Filing BBB complaints- Again, that's the same thing as previous.
3. Review Bombing- I'm not a fan of this practice. I'd like it to stop.   I do think, however,  that not even negative review given is "review bombing." Some people were that soured on the game by the ending.  I think their response is probably amplified by the fact that this an ending of the whole story.  For example, the Matrix 3 reviews were harsher than the movie deserved. It was terrible, but not as terrible as some people said. It was just such a dissapointment.

I would say that people on both sides have crossed the line. But,  I don't think it means the majority of people holding either position act in that manner.    It's not "hostage taking" to ask for changes in your product. It's what people do all the time.

Modifié par GBJ13, 22 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

If a majority of fans want different endings they should get them.

They were after all promised VARIED endings.

Yes, this, thank you.

I can't believe there's an uproar against changing the endings now.

What will it hurt for us "entitled, whining children" to get what we were promised while the rest of you sit back and don't download it?

Again, it's not about changing the ending. Though creating MORE to the ending rather than changing what they have already would make the most sense, frankly.

It's about the fact that even that isn't good enough for you. You guys just keep demanding more and more and more and more and MORE. What the hell is it going to take before you just shut up and recognize that you're getting what you want?

You need to look in a freaking mirror before you go accusing.
I see exactly 1 person demadin more and more.
Demands that we shut up.
Demands that we be happy
Demands that we blindly follow.
Demands that we agree.
Who the hell do you think you are?
If your not a troll you should be banned for being so rude with everything.
I see people trying to discuss things and 1 person trying to derail this into their own personal campaign against the evil.
So much venom from every post you make and it boggles the mind that you cant even see it while accusing us of the exact thing your spewing!

First off, I've never demanded you be happy, blindly follow, or blindly agree. So... 1/5, that's 20%, that's an F.

And again I'd like to point out that just because I disagree with you, and just because I pick apart your complaints with evidence and just because I'm better than you, doesn't make me "spewing venom" or a troll. Adding in your essay portion, you scored a grand total of 1/7, please see me after class so we can discuss whether or not the material is just too advanced for you.

More of the same condescending attitude.  I've yet to see any "evidence"  I see you constantly using logical fallacies and deciding its evidence.
but I can't blame you.  1 person obviously speaks for all of us.  If he wont be satisfied with anything surely we all wont.

[Cyph3rX]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Cyph3rX wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Cyph3rX wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Yet we're the childish idiots who attack people and are "forcing" our opinions down their throats. 

It wasn't an attack, it was a statement of fact. As evidenced by the actions of people on the forums today STILL not being satisfied after Dr. Muzyka's statement. People demanded that the DLC be free, that BioWare match the Child's Play donations, that BioWare give them a pony... okay, that last one was me, but still.

No matter what BioWare gives you, you. Will. Not. Be. Satisfied.

It's not an attack, it's not forcing opinions down your throat, it's just the cold, hard truth.

Mainly because it said next to nothing like Hudson's statements, it was just more PR except from a higher up meant to try to placate the community without doing much of or saying anything. He did not even admit fault over the silly promises made to the fanbase before release, or go with a unveiled "Who cares, deal with it." statement

Honestly, Bioware would've been better off not saying anything at all till April, or saying something definitive, rather than more PR gibberish. Tired of seeing the BS spin so I can decide whether I feel like bothering with this game for the foreseeable future or not. Right now it's looking unlikely.

It said that they're listening, that they're sorry so many people were disappointed, that they want to work with the fans to create better DLC to help explain the endings, that they're looking for constructive crticism to help them with their task...

But other than literally everything you've been asking for, you're right. It said next to nothing...

Except thats exactly what Hudson said. Not to mention Ray went a step further with the "we want to work with the players, BUT look at all of these awesome reviews!" statement. It was uncalled for and condescending. Not to mention I paid $60 bucks for this just to get an unfinished product with a Deus Ex 1 copy/paste ending, and they have the audacity to go "artistic integrity". I wasn't even looking for a good ending with sunshine and rainbows and babies running around while Shepard sips margaritas on a beach, but I expected Shepard to die for the cause and the sacrifice in the end to actually make sense with established lore and not just boil down to pick your favorite color, magically teleporting crew members, and everything blowing up for lots of speculation for everyone. You know, an ending in the vein of the first two ME's or DA:O, not this blatant copy/paste from another game riddled with plotholes.

So, telling you they're taking the criticisms to heart, asking for feedback, saying they want to work with the fanbase constructively, and repeatedly saying that there is more to come is... next to nothing? Come on, man. If you're going to discount the fact that they're TRYING to work with you, then that only serves to confirm my statement that NOTHING they could EVER do will be good enough for you.

Except over the years and several bad products later, I've become quite adept at seeing the difference between legitimate feedback and damage control PR gibberish. Fans have been giving plenty of feedback, and all Bioware said was pretty much "mmhmmm", and then they dig their heels in with the "art" argument after stating "we're listening". Pretty much means little to no progress has been made, and they're most likely probably just going to throw some patchy messed epilogue in just to say "HEY WE DID SOMETHING." instead of actually addressing the problem of the plotholes, the total disregard for what was established the first two games and 99% of the third, and Shepard simply giving in to RGC without even having the investigate option. All because in the end it saves them money and they were able to ship on time. Even good ole' Bobby Kotick has enough restraint to let Blizzard go off and do its own thing rather than trying to shove a BSed product out the door, because he knows he'll get his return on his investment in Blizzard and their releases. EA it seems wants to just do what Kotick does with the rest of his IP's which is to run them into the ground until they're worthless.

If they'd have just let BW do their thing, instead of nitpicking and wanting to extract as much from the game as possible to release later as DLC, and with all the cut content forced them to toss in a nonsensical ending; they could have had something great that would be remembered for quite some time. Instead they're stuck once more with a steaming pile questioning why there's so many who dislike it. Now they're just in damage control mode to see how many they can placate and save for their future releases with as little impact on their profit margins as possible, which after the last three (DA2, TOR, and of course ME3) I'm not really holding my breath for. Frankly, this could've all been avoided if they actually bothered to release a well tested, and quality product, and they would have been swimming in profits for the next few months due to a universally happy fanbase which would have been more than willing to shell out for DLC.

TLDR:

I would've, and probably many others too, been happy if they actually took the time to release a polished finished product, rather than rushing out 99% of a game, complete with a pseudo-ending all for the low price of $60 bucks. Plus they're not really listening, its smoke and mirrors.

Modifié par Cyph3rX, 22 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

[Tazzmission]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

If a majority of fans want different endings they should get them.

They were after all promised VARIED endings.

Yes, this, thank you.

I can't believe there's an uproar against changing the endings now.

What will it hurt for us "entitled, whining children" to get what we were promised while the rest of you sit back and don't download it?

Again, it's not about changing the ending. Though creating MORE to the ending rather than changing what they have already would make the most sense, frankly.

It's about the fact that even that isn't good enough for you. You guys just keep demanding more and more and more and more and MORE. What the hell is it going to take before you just shut up and recognize that you're getting what you want?

You need to look in a freaking mirror before you go accusing.
I see exactly 1 person demadin more and more.
Demands that we shut up.
Demands that we be happy
Demands that we blindly follow.
Demands that we agree.
Who the hell do you think you are?
If your not a troll you should be banned for being so rude with everything.
I see people trying to discuss things and 1 person trying to derail this into their own personal campaign against the evil.
So much venom from every post you make and it boggles the mind that you cant even see it while accusing us of the exact thing your spewing!

First off, I've never demanded you be happy, blindly follow, or blindly agree. So... 1/5, that's 20%, that's an F.

And again I'd like to point out that just because I disagree with you, and just because I pick apart your complaints with evidence and just because I'm better than you, doesn't make me "spewing venom" or a troll. Adding in your essay portion, you scored a grand total of 1/7, please see me after class so we can discuss whether or not the material is just too advanced for you.

More of the same condescending attitude.  I've yet to see any "evidence"  I see you constantly using logical fallacies and deciding its evidence.
but I can't blame you.  1 person obviously speaks for all of us.  If he wont be satisfied with anything surely we all wont.

thats funny. i never once said you are in the wrong in fact i never even said you never had a option


you know why i have been vocal because i have already explained that to you earlier today

[alx119]

saxybeast418 wrote...

Oh, for the love of...

Listen, and listen well. We *got* the game that we were "promised." Just because there was an execution problem with the end does not invalidate the rest of the experience. Heck, Fallout 3's Broken Steel expansion proves that a team can revisit a problematic ending and blow everyone's minds in doing so!

The mythical game that you feel entitled to only exists in your unreasonably high expectations.

Indignant demands are not going to get you what you want. You say you want choices? You say you want meaningful outcomes, consequences that reflect your mark on the world that was crafted? Take a deep breath, step back, and give Bioware a chance to do that at which they excel.

Don't compare the ending of Fallout 3 with ME3. Fallout 3's ending, as sad as it was, provided FULL closure of your adventures. Hell you stood there 10 minutes while the narrator told you what happened to the people you helped, or didn't help. That was satisfying, you truly felt like someone who sacrificed their lives for the sake of the people. AND YOU WERENT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE A HERO IN THAT GAME! 

But, people wanted to keep living and keep their roaming throughout the Wasteland. And it wasn't a minority, so they just admitted their error and changed it. After a lot of hours playing a game, dying is certainly not the most satisfactory ending for many, many people. And that was something they should have forseen. But they fixed it, and even admited they messed it up. 

Now in Mass Effect 3 this, simply does not happen. Not only we don't have the option to not die, but we also have no idea of what the **** happened. And the most logical assumption, GIVEN the science and universe of Mass Effect are, to say the least grim as hell. Total destruction or fast extinction. And hell even if that's what happened, WE SIMPLY DONT KNOW. There is no narrator to tell us, there is no clear images that shows us otherwise. You don't feel like a hero who sacrificed yourself. You feel like a total and utter defeat. 

[Tazzmission]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

i already explained it to him once today


he knows where i stand and why im speaking on the issue

as much as im annoyed by the whiners i dont go as far as to say they are wrong let alone have no right

basicly i just want them to just quit blowing things out of controll

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

Oh wait a second you keep using this term.
"you people"
Oh yeah paint us all in the same brush to make us all look bad.
Not so funny when we do it is it?
Give me a breakt.
I am working with Bioware.
I'd have cancelled my account and already moved on.
I've given them every chance.
I Pre-ordered DA2.
I gave in to Origin (even though every part of me hated myself for it).
I forgave them for first day DLC even though most of it is on the disc.
I wont buy any DLC for this game.  I wont especially not an ending DLC.  I'm not going to give them more money for what I already paid for.  I will cut my losses and move on but I don't want to.
Am I getting through to you?  IF WE WEREN'T WORKING WITH THEM WE WOULDN"T EVEN BOTHER POSTING HERE!

[Father_Jerusalem]

GBJ13 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And that's where the slippery slope comes in. You all created this giant hissy fit and got BioWare to give in. If the DLC doesn't live up to your asinine standards, will you do it again? And again? And again? And again?

This is why I hoped BioWare wouldn't give in to you all, but they did. There's a REASON that when dealing with people who take hostages, most countries won't give in to their demands....

I normally don't respond to these kind of posts, but this is just nuts...

A large percentage of human interactions are negiotations. You want something from somebody and you bargain for it.   Engaging in demands is not the equivalent of hostage taking. It's not even close.   People want a new ending or endings.  If they get a new ending consistent with their complaints, then they'll be happy. If they don't, they won't. It's no different than if you ask somebody to fix you car, tv, etc,  Your approval is based upon how well they did their job.

Review bombing, filing FTC complaints, filing BBB complaints, threatening legal action against BioWare... how about those. Are those close? 

You want to negotiate, you have to be willing to compromise, otherwise it's not a negotiation. Your side won't even budge on the fact that this 98% hate the endings poll is flawed, or that BioWare did not lie in their publicity except for the Multiplayer claim. Until you can budge on those tiny, indefensible positions, there's no reason to believe you're anything BUT hostage takers making demands.

I'm not sure where you get that people are not willing to compromise. For example, several people have posted about being willing to pay for a new DLC if add additional endings. i.e. we will pay you for you to provide a better ending to the game. That's pretty straightforward bargain for exchange. Are there some people making completely unreasonable demands? Sure..   But, I think it's hard to claim that's a majority or even representative of most people.

As for the other things you listed:
1. Filing a FTC complaint- First, filing a lawsuit isn't the equivalent of hostage taking. It's seeking a legal resolution, the exact opposite.  I think the lawsuit is  unlikely to survive summary judgment, so the courts will likely throw it out. However, a consumer challenging product is really important to the system and our society as a whole.   I know some lawyers who work in consumer protection who could tell you some horror stories.  If Bioware breached its legal obligations, a court will determine it. If the lawsuit is frivolous, it'll be dismissed.  However, the lawsuit isn't tied to people who want to change the ending. Most people against the ending have expressly stated they're not interested in participating in the lawsuit. So I'm not sure how you can attribute it to those who want the ending changed?
2. Filing BBB complaints- Again, that's the same thing as previous.
3. Review Bombing- I'm not a fan of this practice. I'd like it to stop.   I do think, however,  that not even negative review given is "review bombing." Some people were that soured on the game by the ending.  I think their response is probably amplified by the fact that this an ending of the whole story.  For example, the Matrix 3 reviews were harsher than the movie deserved. It was terrible, but not as terrible as some people said. It was just such a dissapointment.

I would say that people on both sides have crossed the line. But,  I don't think it means the majority of people holding either position act in that manner.    It's not "hostage taking" to ask for changes in your product. It's what people do all the time.

First off, for every one person saying they'd pay for a DLC, there's at least 1-2 demanding that any DLC be free. There are demands that BioWare do matching Child's Play donations. There are people refusing to acknowledge that BioWare is willing to work with the and is asking for help. These are facts. It's great that you're willing to pay for DLC, it just shows that you're reasonable, but SO MANY others just... aren't. 

As for the lawsuit, it's being prepared and filed by someone who hates the endings. It has supporters among those who hate the endings, and only those who hate the endings. It is getting more people jumping on and ready to file lawsuits of their own, again, from among those who hate the endings. How can I attribute it to those who want the endings changed? Because it's from those who hate the endings and want the endings changed? It's not... rocket surgery, man.

The BBB and FTC complaints are being filed by people who have no further agenda than to tear down BioWare and ruin their business. That's it. They're not legitimate complaints, because any basic critical thinking skills would show that their complaints are full of more holes than... something that's full of a lot of holes. It's after midnight here. I'm not at my best. These people are capable of no thought other than "FK BIOWARE! RAAAR!" 

There is a difference between review bombing and actual negative reviews. Actual negative reviews have low scores accompanied by actual reviews with legitimate complaints and critiques. Review bombs are reviews that have low scores and are accompanied by such witty gems as "FK THE ENDINGS!" or "NO ******!" There is a clear cut difference, and the majority of negative reviews are, in fact, review bombs.

And again, asking for changes to the product is legitimate and should be encouraged. The above kinds of behavior, however, are disgusting and only serve to tear the community and the game developers apart.

[Tazzmission]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And that's where the slippery slope comes in. You all created this giant hissy fit and got BioWare to give in. If the DLC doesn't live up to your asinine standards, will you do it again? And again? And again? And again?

This is why I hoped BioWare wouldn't give in to you all, but they did. There's a REASON that when dealing with people who take hostages, most countries won't give in to their demands....

I normally don't respond to these kind of posts, but this is just nuts...

A large percentage of human interactions are negiotations. You want something from somebody and you bargain for it.   Engaging in demands is not the equivalent of hostage taking. It's not even close.   People want a new ending or endings.  If they get a new ending consistent with their complaints, then they'll be happy. If they don't, they won't. It's no different than if you ask somebody to fix you car, tv, etc,  Your approval is based upon how well they did their job.

Review bombing, filing FTC complaints, filing BBB complaints, threatening legal action against BioWare... how about those. Are those close? 

You want to negotiate, you have to be willing to compromise, otherwise it's not a negotiation. Your side won't even budge on the fact that this 98% hate the endings poll is flawed, or that BioWare did not lie in their publicity except for the Multiplayer claim. Until you can budge on those tiny, indefensible positions, there's no reason to believe you're anything BUT hostage takers making demands.

I'm not sure where you get that people are not willing to compromise. For example, several people have posted about being willing to pay for a new DLC if add additional endings. i.e. we will pay you for you to provide a better ending to the game. That's pretty straightforward bargain for exchange. Are there some people making completely unreasonable demands? Sure..   But, I think it's hard to claim that's a majority or even representative of most people.

As for the other things you listed:
1. Filing a FTC complaint- First, filing a lawsuit isn't the equivalent of hostage taking. It's seeking a legal resolution, the exact opposite.  I think the lawsuit is  unlikely to survive summary judgment, so the courts will likely throw it out. However, a consumer challenging product is really important to the system and our society as a whole.   I know some lawyers who work in consumer protection who could tell you some horror stories.  If Bioware breached its legal obligations, a court will determine it. If the lawsuit is frivolous, it'll be dismissed.  However, the lawsuit isn't tied to people who want to change the ending. Most people against the ending have expressly stated they're not interested in participating in the lawsuit. So I'm not sure how you can attribute it to those who want the ending changed?
2. Filing BBB complaints- Again, that's the same thing as previous.
3. Review Bombing- I'm not a fan of this practice. I'd like it to stop.   I do think, however,  that not even negative review given is "review bombing." Some people were that soured on the game by the ending.  I think their response is probably amplified by the fact that this an ending of the whole story.  For example, the Matrix 3 reviews were harsher than the movie deserved. It was terrible, but not as terrible as some people said. It was just such a dissapointment.

I would say that people on both sides have crossed the line. But,  I don't think it means the majority of people holding either position act in that manner.    It's not "hostage taking" to ask for changes in your product. It's what people do all the time.

First off, for every one person saying they'd pay for a DLC, there's at least 1-2 demanding that any DLC be free. There are demands that BioWare do matching Child's Play donations. There are people refusing to acknowledge that BioWare is willing to work with the and is asking for help. These are facts. It's great that you're willing to pay for DLC, it just shows that you're reasonable, but SO MANY others just... aren't. 

As for the lawsuit, it's being prepared and filed by someone who hates the endings. It has supporters among those who hate the endings, and only those who hate the endings. It is getting more people jumping on and ready to file lawsuits of their own, again, from among those who hate the endings. How can I attribute it to those who want the endings changed? Because it's from those who hate the endings and want the endings changed? It's not... rocket surgery, man.

The BBB and FTC complaints are being filed by people who have no further agenda than to tear down BioWare and ruin their business. That's it. They're not legitimate complaints, because any basic critical thinking skills would show that their complaints are full of more holes than... something that's full of a lot of holes. It's after midnight here. I'm not at my best. These people are capable of no thought other than "FK BIOWARE! RAAAR!" 

There is a difference between review bombing and actual negative reviews. Actual negative reviews have low scores accompanied by actual reviews with legitimate complaints and critiques. Review bombs are reviews that have low scores and are accompanied by such witty gems as "FK THE ENDINGS!" or "NO ******!" There is a clear cut difference, and the majority of negative reviews are, in fact, review bombs.

And again, asking for changes to the product is legitimate and should be encouraged. The above kinds of behavior, however, are disgusting and only serve to tear the community and the game developers apart.

very nicely put

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

Oh wait a second you keep using this term.
"you people"
Oh yeah paint us all in the same brush to make us all look bad.
Not so funny when we do it is it?
Give me a breakt.
I am working with Bioware.
I'd have cancelled my account and already moved on.
I've given them every chance.
I Pre-ordered DA2.
I gave in to Origin (even though every part of me hated myself for it).
I forgave them for first day DLC even though most of it is on the disc.
I wont buy any DLC for this game.  I wont especially not an ending DLC.  I'm not going to give them more money for what I already paid for.  I will cut my losses and move on but I don't want to.
Am I getting through to you?  IF WE WEREN'T WORKING WITH THEM WE WOULDN"T EVEN BOTHER POSTING HERE!

Again, your last statement is a flat out lie, because there are MASSES of people that have no interest in working with BioWare and still continue to post here.

Secondly, congrats on ordering DA2? I guess? I dunno, do you want a cookie or something? I'm... not sure what that's trying to say...

Thirdly, I say "you people" as a short version of saying "all of you who are against the endings but who may or may not necessarily be a part of the #Retake movement". Forgive me for wanting to save myself a bunch of unnecessary typing now and again.

[Rockworm503]

For every person denouncing terrorism. There is a terrorist.
Can I call you a terrorist?

[Tazzmission]

Rockworm503 wrote...

For every person denouncing terrorism. There is a terrorist.
Can I call you a terrorist?

and yet your still dodging the truth that father j has said

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

For every person denouncing terrorism. There is a terrorist.
Can I call you a terrorist?

I've noticed a theme. Every time I make a salient point, you jump away and try coming at me from an entirely different angle. It's happened... four?... times in this thread already.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

Oh wait a second you keep using this term.
"you people"
Oh yeah paint us all in the same brush to make us all look bad.
Not so funny when we do it is it?
Give me a breakt.
I am working with Bioware.
I'd have cancelled my account and already moved on.
I've given them every chance.
I Pre-ordered DA2.
I gave in to Origin (even though every part of me hated myself for it).
I forgave them for first day DLC even though most of it is on the disc.
I wont buy any DLC for this game.  I wont especially not an ending DLC.  I'm not going to give them more money for what I already paid for.  I will cut my losses and move on but I don't want to.
Am I getting through to you?  IF WE WEREN'T WORKING WITH THEM WE WOULDN"T EVEN BOTHER POSTING HERE!

Again, your last statement is a flat out lie, because there are MASSES of people that have no interest in working with BioWare and still continue to post here.

Secondly, congrats on ordering DA2? I guess? I dunno, do you want a cookie or something? I'm... not sure what that's trying to say...

Thirdly, I say "you people" as a short version of saying "all of you who are against the endings but who may or may not necessarily be a part of the #Retake movement". Forgive me for wanting to save myself a bunch of unnecessary typing now and again.

I hated DA2.
Strike 1.
I hate Origin.
Strike 2.
I hate EA's business (DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC )
Strike 3.
At this point were at strike 5 or something.
I've given them every chance to make this right because I love Bioware.  I think they can do better than this.
If all it takes to be a lie is that mass amounts of people do differently than I guess the world is still flat because there is a society that still belives it.
The worlds is FLAT!!! because MASS AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IT!!!
this is your own logic.

[Eclipse merc]

I want a different ending...

[Tazzmission]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

For every person denouncing terrorism. There is a terrorist.
Can I call you a terrorist?

I've noticed a theme. Every time I make a salient point, you jump away and try coming at me from an entirely different angle. It's happened... four?... times in this thread already.

Interesting, isn't it?

it is isnt it? its like you and i called him out on his actions and now hes trying to derail it

[Father_Jerusalem]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

Oh wait a second you keep using this term.
"you people"
Oh yeah paint us all in the same brush to make us all look bad.
Not so funny when we do it is it?
Give me a breakt.
I am working with Bioware.
I'd have cancelled my account and already moved on.
I've given them every chance.
I Pre-ordered DA2.
I gave in to Origin (even though every part of me hated myself for it).
I forgave them for first day DLC even though most of it is on the disc.
I wont buy any DLC for this game.  I wont especially not an ending DLC.  I'm not going to give them more money for what I already paid for.  I will cut my losses and move on but I don't want to.
Am I getting through to you?  IF WE WEREN'T WORKING WITH THEM WE WOULDN"T EVEN BOTHER POSTING HERE!

Again, your last statement is a flat out lie, because there are MASSES of people that have no interest in working with BioWare and still continue to post here.

Secondly, congrats on ordering DA2? I guess? I dunno, do you want a cookie or something? I'm... not sure what that's trying to say...

Thirdly, I say "you people" as a short version of saying "all of you who are against the endings but who may or may not necessarily be a part of the #Retake movement". Forgive me for wanting to save myself a bunch of unnecessary typing now and again.

I hated DA2.
Strike 1.
I hate Origin.
Strike 2.
I hate EA's business (DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC )
Strike 3.
At this point were at strike 5 or something.
I've given them every chance to make this right because I love Bioware.  I think they can do better than this.
If all it takes to be a lie is that mass amounts of people do differently than I guess the world is still flat because there is a society that still belives it.
The worlds is FLAT!!! because MASS AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IT!!!
this is your own logic.

How can I be acquiring strikes when I never said a single word about you liking DA2, liking Origin, liking EA's business.... 

Wait. Are we playing Quidditch? I never could understand the rules to Quidditch. Maybe that's it.

[Tazzmission]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't believe these entitled crybabies are demanding that we change our opinions.
Our opinions are just fine. We keep trying to explain our opinions in a rational manner but some people are never satisfied. I hope no one ever changes their opinion to please them.

Nobody, and I repeat, NOBODY, is demanding you change your opinions. You can go back and look over my post history, I have never ONCE demanded someone go from disliking the ending to liking the ending. I have never ONCE said that there aren't legitimate issues with the ending. That is an outright lie on your part. 

What I'm saying is, recognize that BioWare is listening to you and wants your feedback. Instead of continuing to rant off lists of demands for them to give you MORE, take this opportunity to work with BioWare and shape the continuing DLCs and endings that YOU want.

Holy hell, when I look at it, that IS completely unreasonable of me, isn't it?

Oh wait a second you keep using this term.
"you people"
Oh yeah paint us all in the same brush to make us all look bad.
Not so funny when we do it is it?
Give me a breakt.
I am working with Bioware.
I'd have cancelled my account and already moved on.
I've given them every chance.
I Pre-ordered DA2.
I gave in to Origin (even though every part of me hated myself for it).
I forgave them for first day DLC even though most of it is on the disc.
I wont buy any DLC for this game.  I wont especially not an ending DLC.  I'm not going to give them more money for what I already paid for.  I will cut my losses and move on but I don't want to.
Am I getting through to you?  IF WE WEREN'T WORKING WITH THEM WE WOULDN"T EVEN BOTHER POSTING HERE!

Again, your last statement is a flat out lie, because there are MASSES of people that have no interest in working with BioWare and still continue to post here.

Secondly, congrats on ordering DA2? I guess? I dunno, do you want a cookie or something? I'm... not sure what that's trying to say...

Thirdly, I say "you people" as a short version of saying "all of you who are against the endings but who may or may not necessarily be a part of the #Retake movement". Forgive me for wanting to save myself a bunch of unnecessary typing now and again.

I hated DA2.
Strike 1.
I hate Origin.
Strike 2.
I hate EA's business (DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC )
Strike 3.
At this point were at strike 5 or something.
I've given them every chance to make this right because I love Bioware.  I think they can do better than this.
If all it takes to be a lie is that mass amounts of people do differently than I guess the world is still flat because there is a society that still belives it.
The worlds is FLAT!!! because MASS AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IT!!!
this is your own logic.

so your denying you said you wouldnt by dlc until bioware did what you demanded?

you do realize i have no issue digging through threads to prove you wrong right?

[Rockworm503]

Tazzmission wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

For every person denouncing terrorism. There is a terrorist.
Can I call you a terrorist?

and yet your still dodging the truth that father j has said

Circle jerking isn't a truth.
You two take bet to see who can make me give up and give into petty insults and get banned?
Come on guys this lightweight stuff.
I was in the Myspace forums during its prime.  Those guys would eat you alive.

[Buffy-Summers]

Sorry, its more then incomplete

Its more then broken

Its a fundamental reversal of all that made the entire series unique. Choice.

Period.

The ending (s) do not follow that series mantra.

Your call for sanity is ill conceived at the moment for it does not touch on this very point.

The endings need to be MASSIVELY different based on your choices through out all 3 series

[Nicky 192]

I would like the game i was promised, not a choose ABC ending.

[SyyRaaaN]

I honestly don't understand these initiatives. If they want to add MORE endings to their title then why not? It would be awesome. If you don't like it, then just don't install it, problem solved.

It's not like their gonna force delete the current "ending".